Somebody, please shoot the government

[Annabella]

Exactly what I said.

Absolute fools passing the tuition fees policy. Grrrrr.
All due to the nasty Scottish Parliament being allowed to vote in policies which don't affect them (we're not allowed to vote in their parliament!)!
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[Major_Grooves]

Two-tier uni system here we come. No more uni for middle earning families. Glad I've nearly done all my degrees.

I apologise on behalf of the nasty Scottish MPs for whatever it is that they did.
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[carvell]

From what I've heard from universities I have applied to, tuition fees will not affect anyone who started university in 2004 or 2005.

This is good news for me, however I feel for anyone who will be applying in 2006 onwards.
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[KiddoYouth]

grrrr... i have 5 years of it from september

[JimboJ]

Well I'm going as of september barring a miracle so heopfully I won't have to pay a penny

It does seem a bit silly for someone who wants the country to be educated to put university off limits for them

James
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[carvell]

Tony Blair is burning the ladder his children have already climbed.

It's rediculous.
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[Major_Grooves]

[carvell]

£1,100 as of 2003

Plus accommodation etc., it comes to around £5,500 per year.
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[JimboJ]

[carvell]

You're still have to pay accomodation, food, clothes, going out for beer etc.

You're going to have to pay around £4,000.
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[Phoenix]

Yes, but those expenses have got nothing to do with university, you still have to pay for a home, food and everything else even if you aren't at university. Ofcourse unless you live at home all your life.

[Mr.Everready]

Just one question, who will pay for it if it's not the people who are attending the universaties ?

[Kickstart]

Hi

I am still unsure what I think.

I do think it is fairly insane that we pay people to breed (child benefit) when the country is overpopulated, yet will not fork out to support those whose further education will be useful.

I also think it is mad that people are paid to sit around while unemployed, but charged to go to university and expected to pay for themselves.

There is the view that those who go to university will earn more, but for many that will not be true. You can argue that if people have to pay for their university place then they are more likely to do a course which will pay (and which is likely to therefor generate income), but (quite honestly) there are an awful lot of 17~18 year olds looking for their university place who have no concept of how much debt they will be in. By the time they find out it is too late.

What is the solution? I don't know. I don't think trying to push 50% of the population through university is a good idea. Some of the current degrees are so useless that they could be dramatically improved with a module on saying "Do you want fries with that". Forcing students to pay for their courses might well cut down the number of people going to do useless degrees as well as useful degrees, but it is not going to differentiate between those students who are as thick as 2 short planks with rich parents and those who are bright with averagely wealthy parents.

All the best

Keith
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[Robby]

Sounds good to me.

I'm not going to uni, I'm not paying for it. I'll dislike the decision in 25-30 years when I want to send my child(ren) to uni, but it might have all changed by then.

For now, I can be happy that my tax money is being used on.. well... starting wars, giving homes to kosovans, rebuilding Iraq, subsidising agriculture in southern europe...

ah well.

[Hex]

There was no doubt that the government wouldn't vote this through.

After all if they didn't they where effectively voting themselves out of power.

The whole uni fee's thing was an unfortunate issue that came up in the politics about leadership and confidence in that.

Its all arse anyway - and I'm not getting started on another political rant until I'm running for council.
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[Annabella]

I agree with Keith.

My sister is paid by the government to look after the two children she has produced (by choice) and herself. She is given a home, free healthcare (i.e. no prescription charges), free dental care, and pays no council tax.

I have to pay for tuition fees (the full amount), I get no support because my gran left me a small amount of savings. I have to pay for accomodation (and the majority of universties demand that you live in halls for the first year even if there is the option of staying at home), and I have to live. Living, costs rather a lot of money, electricity, gas and food all add up to a substantial amount. All up front - so to speak.

At present we are recommended loans from "The Student Loan Company", and the amount that is lent to us is governed by our parents income. We have to pay this back as soon as we start work - with interest.



The government have decided that it will be fairer and encourage more people to attend university if the tuition fees are wavered until after the degree is completed. They will be a great deal higher. So after university the average debt of a post grad will be an huge amount higher than at present (on average, most students currently leave with a debt around £9000). The sort of debt that they will be paying off until their middle age! oh, and if you read the small print, the debt is not wavered by death or unemployment leaving the post-grad's parents to honour the loan company.

In my opinion, those who go to university will be higher earners afterwards (or should be), and so the government will be recieving higher levels of tax. At the moment, it is looking pretty appealing to not bother with all the debt malarky, go and have the life of riley as a baby maker.

/rant

I apologise.
As for the Scottish MPs. English MPs are not allowed to vote in the Scottish parliament. This particular act does not affect the Scottish system, however the Scots were allowed to vote in this instance - and made the difference (the majority of them disagreed with the policy but voted with the government en-mass to keep in the good books).
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[MarJay]

[JimboJ]

[zaknafien]

[Tenthghost]

Personally i was hoping to go next year 2005 and put it off because i want to do a B-tec in aerospace engineering. But now it looks like i will have to go next year with my B-tec in Business which is a bit crap because i find my business course very boring.
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[Laura]

I'm supposed to be doing a degree in aerospace engineering but luckily by company are going to pay for this
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[Major_Grooves]

[headlamp]

I fully sympathise with students and feel that this is another example of TB & his cronies screwing around with the country. Everything this government has meddled in (since that sad day in May 1997) has been a disaster.

When I went to Polytechnic over 20 years ago, I got my fees paid for and a further £900 a year for living at home. As I also worked part-time, I actually funded a fairly extravagent lifestyle, including three trips abroad a year!

This new legislation, if passed will have a detrimental and negative effect on the higher education system and will I believe start a slow and steady decline in the proffession. I am convinced thousands of families and individuals will be put off by the level of fees that will have to be paid back. Ultimately you will have a less well trained work force that will result in industry & commerce in the UK being less competitive than other places in Europe. Lack of competitveness will lead to jobs going abroad, more unemployment, less tax revenues to fund some his other grandiose schemes.

It might be far fetched but this legislation will have far reaching conseqences in 7-10 years, when TB will be long gone (thank God).

[Annabella]

Kickstart wrote:

[McJamweasel]

It is indeed a bad idea all around. I'm going to be leaving uni with around £13,000 debt, and my parents have paid my tuition fees for me so it could of been much higher. I'm trying not to think about the level of debt that I've gotten into, cos if I did too much then I think it would scare me silly.

If I had to pay another £9000 up front would I of gone to Uni at all? I doubt it.

I do agree that SOME graduates should pay for their education, but not all. If the graduate will help the nation as a whole (doctors, teachers etc.) then shouldn't the public pay for it? For other courses that are more commercial (including what I'm doing - IT) why not introduce a graduate tax. It wouldn't have to be much to cover the costs of the course yet I don't think that it would put off that many people. Maybe make it a variable tax, based on the course. So, for example, an IT degree (that may be slightly useful) would be taxed lower than a useless degree, such as David Beckham Studies (yes, I know this is a module on a degree, not a degree itself but it makes my point).

Maybe that way people would be put off going to do stupid courses that they will never use when they go on to work for McBurgerWorld or wherever.
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