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| sandman1976 |
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sandman1976
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Joined: 08 Apr 2011
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| hmmmnz |
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hmmmnz
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 Posted: 23:45 - 16 Jun 2011  Post subject: |
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which models??
if you got a montessa trails bike and a fantic road bike then the fantic is going to be faster because the trails bike is geared so low,
are we talking old bikes here ??
if new bikes then the montesa stopped making 125's in 86,
there was talk of a new one with a honda engine, but fuck knows if they ever released it
as for the fantic the make a 2 and water cooled 4 stoke versions
more details are required to give you any kind of answer,
fail thread really
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 07:48 - 17 Jun 2011 Post subject: |
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My dad's bike is faster than your dad's bike.
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| hazza |
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hazza
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 12:36 - 17 Jun 2011 Post subject: |
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Fantic used minerelli 'based' engines.
Spect changed from batch to batch, they are, these days a restoreres nightmare.
Usually reed valved, the motors were often quite good, but reputation for being rather fragile, regardless of what genre they were built for.
Montesa.... 123 motor, Pedro Pi's 'Baby'.... concieved in the late '60's he 'evolved' it through two decades of development, 'on the side', as the factory was far more converned with the old Impala engine, that powered all thier 175+cc models.
The 123 motor was probably the better engine, but like the Fantic lumps, still a bit of a restorers nightmare these days, the Impala lump was used in far more models, with far fewer revisions, for far longer.
123, was sleeved to 80cc, and bored as far as 224, and had variouse different crank shafts, and barels to get the different capacities. Originally piston ported, factory toyed with reed valves and even a factory 'double pumper', with secondary supercharging cylinder!
Which is faster?
Well, not a lot to go on, really, Fantic made a lot of bikes! So did Montesa!
Fantic 'chopper', vs Montesa Scrambler.... montessa probably the faster! Montesa Cota 123 trials bike, vs Fantic Scrambler, probably the fantic.....
But these days,. probably the one that actually works!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| sandman1976 |
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sandman1976
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 19:34 - 17 Jun 2011 Post subject: |
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| sandman1976 wrote: | Fantic is a mid seventies, montessa is an early eighties if that helps?
They are both trials bikes and both 2 stroke. |
If they are trials bikes, then how fast they are is rather immeterial.
Trials is riding difficult sections and obsticles at walking pace, what you want isn't even power, but throttle response and thrust.
Thrust, normally attained through effoff low gearing. Throttle response from best set up engine you can get.
Fantics dominated the early eighties trials scene with thier long travel 'mono-shock' bikes. Thier sevienties offerings were derived of thier moto-cross bikes, made 'obsolete' by Yamaha's monoshock rear suspension. They were too tall and unweildy to be very competative, until they went mono, and the motors were always critasised for being too 'fearce'... they had good throttle response from the reed valved motor, but were not softly enough tuned for trials work.
The Montesa, will be a 123, and as likely as not a small wheel 'youth' bike, if actually 125cc.
It was a very useful youth bike, until the fantic mono's came along, but the TY Yams were cheaper, more responsive, and better supported.
I have NO Idea what you are pondering, but..... err.... there are some pretty random neurons firing I think!
So, give us the full story, and put us out of our misery, or leave us in blissful ignorance! PLEASE!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| hmmmnz |
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hmmmnz
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 22:52 - 17 Jun 2011 Post subject: |
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| hmmmnz wrote: | if it was just 2 trails bikes
i would go with the montesa, if only because you can still get parts for them. |
Competing a T-Shock Cota for quarter of a century, I have to give a lot of praise to Jim Sandiford Motorcycles... STILL the official UK Montesa Importer, after all these years.
However, while they have tried to support the older bikes over the years, 'some' parts have steadily been becoming unavailable, and the less common parts for the less common models have been running out for some years. I went up to Burnley in about '95, when they had had the fire and got a load of bits for my cota, and they have told me since that , some stuff, I've had is basically the last bits off the shelf.
Cracked the rear hub, in a big (and as usual SUPID) fall, seven years ago.... had the last conical rear they had in stock, and it was black, not silver, unfortunately, but hey, at least its the same shape and size!
So... there's no grantee that just because its a Montesa you can get the bits you need.
Post '86 bikes, when Montesa 'Competizione' (or something like that!) was still an independent trading entity to the then 100% Honda Controlled montesa works, are a bit of a nightmare. Those are the 'monoshock' bikes, up to the first HRC involvement which I think was the 213... later bikes are much better supported, basically being Honda's, and less than fifteen years old, for the most part.
If I was starting out today, as a Newbie..... I don't think I'd be picking a Cota. My 248, is one of the rarer variants, but its basically the 349, sleeved down, and shared all the cycle parts with that more common model, and the bottom end with both that and the 247. Only unique bit is the Barel & Piston...
123, available in Youth and Junior guises with different sized wheels, shared a few parts with other models, and the bottom end is basically the same as the Montesa Honda 200... But a more 'awkward one' and not the best supported.
If I was going to go for a T-Shock now, I think that I would either pay the extra and go for a Sherpa.... simply because it is the BEST supported & Sammy Miller has repro parts for them to the extent I believe he can make up brand new bikes from spares.... Rather than a Montesa.... though if I was going to go Cota, would be an earlier 247, which is slightly better supported.
BUT, as most of the earlier bikes are all rather cumbersome for modern pocket trials sections, without a bit of know how to mod them.... BEST bet for support and for usefulness, and definitely the most newbie friendly HAS to be the indomitable Yammie TY175. (possibly the bike that spurred modern trials in the direction of short section, pocket courses, due to its nimbleness and zippy responsive engine)
TY250's are probably as well supported, but they were a longer, heavier bike, like the Sherpa and Cota, worked better on 'Long trail' courses.... unless you want to start spending seriouse money finding or building a 'Majesty' TY 'Trials Chop'.
Fantics?
I know a number of people that have competed Fantics in Classics..... to restore to 'original' is nie on impossible...... Know a bloke that does it... purely out of masocistic glee, that he has the know how & contacts to achieve it, and his lad (LAD! Geez! Blokes older than me!) competes them to prove that they aren't all show and no go! .... But most of them? Well....
The Fantic Lads, they'd start the season.... and when they unloaded the bike, waiting in the queue for registration, boasting about how they had managed to restore the thing, half gleeful and half apologetic, pointing out where they had used bits from earlier or later bikes, and modified them to fit.....
By the middle of the season..... if they survived that long...... many didn't... they'd sit out a few rounds, and eventually give up, or buy a TY.... "Just while I find a magneto cover for the Fantic....." ... the bike would be wearing grey pattern mudguards in place of its original red plastics..... and its bash plate would be missing, and the side penels would have been left off.... the seat, become a bit of foam glued to a bit of ply cable tied to the seat rails......
By the End of the season, a bit of chequer plate would have been bent to shape to replace the missing bash plate, and hide the epoxy repairs to the primary drive cover..... the tank would have been replaced with a plastic TY item, both generic Sammy Miller mudguards would have been broken and rivited back together and one or other of the fancy gold anodised wheels replaced with a TY item... sometimes the forks too!
They did NOT weather well! And parts were a real nightmare.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| sandman1976 |
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sandman1976
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| Posted: 22:59 - 18 Jun 2011 Post subject: |
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Ok the pondering, i have the fantic, and im being offered a montessa for it.
Easy lol 
So stick or spin? |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 14 years, 200 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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