Dogs off leads - long post

[Ben_m]

Quite often I go running along our local canal towpath with my dog which is also quite popular with other dog walkers. My dog (Paddy) was attacked a few years ago which has made him slightly anti social with other dogs and always tries to get in there first whenever we come across another dog. Because of this I always make sure I put him on a lead when I see somebody in the distance. More and more often now I am seeing other dog walkers in the distance who can quite clearly see me coming towards them yet don't bother to put the dogs on a lead. This ends up with my dog growling and the other dog going in for the attack but doesn't commit because I carry on running pulling my dog away.

I am getting quite angry now about the number of times this is happening to me and am quite frankly getting pissed off with it. Here are a few examples that have happened over the past week.

1, I see woman in the distance but can't see a dog but I still put mine it's lead. The canal straightens out and a big fuck off bull mastiff cross and alsation running towards me flat out ears pricked up. I stop running and pull my dog close expecting the other dogs to stop or slow down. The mastiff did but the alsation did not. It' ears were pricked up, head high ready to attack. I thought it's a case of kill or be killed here so when it got up to me without even slowing, I pulled my dog back and swiped at the big bastard pushing him into the canal which knocked the stuffing out of it. Me being a dog lover helped it out. Woman said it's ok my dogs are lovers not fighters I said mines the opposite and you should have had yours on a lead anything could have happened and I carried on my way.

2, Silly bint I see quite often still doesn't put her nasty dog on a lead and it attacks mine cue me getting angry and grabbing hold of dog and dragging it to bint shouting at her to put it on a lead. "I didn't see you" she says.

3, Today I see 3 people about 300m in front on section of wide towpath with clear views. They see me coming, man grabs his two dogs, another person grabs their dog yet the other doesn't bother which then (big black labarador) proceeds to run towards me barking growling etc and then grabs my dog which runs round the front of me causing me to kick him (My dog)and hurt him by mistake. I drop his lead, manage to grab the Lab and drag it to it's owner shouting "get ya fucking dog on a lead, you saw me coming", collar then pulls off dog, I throw it at owner shouting "get ya bloody dog on it's lead". I thank the other two and get on my merry way.

4, Also today, on my way back after having already run 3 miles, I see silly bint from example number 2. She is stood gassing to someone but has two dogs with her now. Nasty bugger and a black lab! Nasty bugger comes running towards us, teeth showing, growling, barking and before it gets to my dog it gets a size 11 in it's side. It then tries attacking from behind, I pull my dog out the way and give nasty dog another kick which fells it. It gets up to another kick and runs off. While this is happneing owner is 5m away watching and made no attempt to get her dog. All of this happened in a matter of seconds. Her black lab then comes running in, I drop my dogs lead, grab it and drag it to its owner who says I should have shouted her to put her dogs on a lead as she didn't see me. Surely doing this would have alerted her dogs and surely she should have been watching them. I give her a load of verbal and carry on utterly pissed off!

5, Also today, I pass 2 of the people from example 3 who held their dogs. They see me, grab their dogs again and smile and wave as I thank them. Happy days.

Am I over reacting here? I know sometimes it can't be helped and owners don't see people coming like when going under bridges and the view beyond is restricted etc. I am considering going to see the local village bobby and see what he says but I don't fancy shooting myself in the foot, or should I put the owners in the canal as well as he dogs??
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[Gamble]

Not at all mate, it's something that really fucking annoys me. I've got a Staffy and he's the softest dog you could ever hope to meet, just wants to be friends with everyone and everything! I never let him off while there's any other people or dogs around as I know he does jump up and obviously people don't want it.

The other week we took him out in the car and down to a friends, so I took the dog for a walk on the large playing field by his house. Cue old gray haired man with a tiny little white Jack Russel, now I know from experience these aren't really the nicest dogs. Little thing comes plodding over barking and starting to show his teeth so I shout to the bloke while pulling my dog back, can you put your dog on a lead... He chooses to completely ignore me so I go to walk the other way with my dog at which point the Jack Russel's running after me so I gave it a friendly prod with my foot.

Ended up with me holding this dog down to the floor by the scruff of his neck shouting at the owner who toddles up and says "Is there really any need for that, he's not nasty" after having a short chat with the old man and politely telling him his dogs not as nice as he thinks he puts the dog on the lead, waits until he's probably 10 or 15 meters away and lets him off again!

Some people really don't learn, if you can't control and trust your dog. Keep it on the lead. Simple.

[Harold_Shand]

Dogs cause a lot of problems between people. The problem is they are very, very rarely properly trained. They might pretend like they're trained but when the mood takes them, they'll do what they like and no amount of shouting their name is going to get them to behave.

I had some rubbish in black bags when one of two labs bounded up and ripped into the bag, the owner said she was sorry, but like all dog owners, presumed I loved dogs and would see the funny side of their exuberance. Well I fucking didn't. Dogs are built for working. But if people want to go round scraping hot dog shit off the pavement in nappy bags whilst the world watches, I suppose that's their choice. Rather them than me.
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Harold_Shand's theory might be the best explanation.

[mistergixer]

My Stafford got attacked by a Black Lab a while ago - mine was on the lead, Lab came charging over in full attack mode and went for him.

Whilst trying to keep my dog out of the way of the lab i was shouting at the woman lab owner to get her fucking dog under control, she just stood there looking at me.

Eventually, after a few well aimed kicks from me to the lab she decided to get hold of her dog.

She got all snotty with me, saying 'you should have your dog under better control' and 'my dog only has a problem with your breed', like it was my fault!

I lost my rag a bit at that point....


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[WildGoose]

You sound like you are being an oversensitive twit to be honest, and let me tell you, if you ever threw my dog into a canal, you would be following behind it in short order, and I wouldn't be helping you out.

You cannot expect your average moron in the street (dog or not) to second guess your every hearts desire. If you don't want or can't deal with these situations, don't go along the canal.

It is possible to defuse aggresive dog situations, with the way you react. If a dog was truly out of hand then I would put the boot in, but as a last resort only, and if my dog was in genuine danger. It sounds like you are poised to do it at the instant another dog comes on the scene, which just makes you a thug in my book.

Dogs have good memories for people, and are also hypersensitive to mood, reception and atmosphere, if it is the same dogs regularly maybe they know you have a tendency to be anti social towards other dogs and thats why they come flying towards you and yours in attack mode.

It's your dog with the socialisation issues, not the other people. Maybe you should take responsibility for yourself and your dog and go where other people are not.

I have a lab, he is well trained for the most part, but can be exuberant as they tend to be and sometimes loses his head at which point, no amount of commands make any difference. Everybody loves him, despite his enthusiasm, so we must be doing something right.

I generally hate people (you reinforce this case wonderfully), which is why I will always choose to go where i'm not likely to bump into anyone. Rarely follow paths or go to public parks. However, I always have a lead on hand in case we do, and I always spot the other people before my dog does.

Once they have seen me if they make no effort to put the dog on the lead then its fair game as far as i'm concerned. I know my dog well enough to know that he won't get violent with other dogs, it isn't in him at all. If the other dog kicks off, then mine is quick to run on, and he is always faster. If I think their dog looks a bit dodgy I will usually grab mine by the collar and just have a verbal check with the owner if "its ok to play?". Most around here seem to be.



What is fucking me off at the moment is the amount of dog shit being left on the local playing field, even though I rarely go there, it's just disgusting, constantly having to keep a lookout so you don't step in it, or your own dog doesn't run through it. There are dog shit bins all around.

Few weeks ago, I was walking along the edge of a cornfield, Jasper started eating something enthusiastically. Usually this is a dead bird or something, so the usual procedure is to tackle him and take it out of his throat as he has had bones stuck before now to the tune of an expensive vets bill. I pulled it out, and realised it was a dog shit bag, with nasty months old fermented shit inside. So middle of nowhere, and somebody decides to bag their dog shit and leave it nicely preserved for others to find. They could have just scraped it out of the way and it would have been gone in a matter of days. That was a nice walk home with months old dogshit all up my forearm.

My point...

People are just wankers. Including dog owners, so stay well away from them.
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[Billing]

I've only ever been in a similar situation once, GSD off the lead, and my Westie on the lead, GSD came tearing over and grabbed mine by the back of the neck. I gave it a swift kick straight in the side of the head, and it soon let go and made a quick exit (had forgotten I was wearing my work boots)

Some old bloke comes up and started having a go at me and prodding me just under the collar bone saying how he'd be calling the police and sending me the vets bill, so I grabbed his finger (I really really hate people touching me most of the time) bent it back so he stopped and told him to go ahead and call them and we'd see what they had to say about the situation in regards to the dangerous dogs act
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[TUG]

My jack russel cross, Vic fucking hates dogs, and i don't understand that when other dog walkers see me trying to avoid them they just stand there while my dog goes crazy.

It's not his fault he was neglected for 6 yrs of his life and i'm currently putting alot of effort into training him.

Other walkers make this so fucking difficult because they think their dog is under their control but i fail to see screaming it's name as it shoots off into the distance control personaly.

I dont think your over reacting at all, it boils my blood that they can't understand that other dogs might not wan't theirs sniffing at them an such, I think a dog should never be off a lead unless the owner has absolute control and i've only seen this twice, one my dog trainers collie and another collie with an old man who has clearly trained his dog to absolute perfection.

It's also upsetting for my mum and stepdad, we took Vic in to save him from being put to sleep, and they really want another old english sheep dog to fill the void that the late Max has left (still miss him ) and other dog walkers keep undoing the training i keep ontop of.
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[bazza]

Run somewhere else.
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[Rogerborg]

Get yourself a leopard. Job done, no need to pay for leopard food either.

Honest to Dog, pooch owners who complain about other pooch owners, while their own little snarling snoofiekins terrorises every dog-averse human that walks past, you do rather take the biscuit somewhat.
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[hellkat]

My dog eats everybody else's dog.
Problem solved.
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Not nearly as interesting in real life.

[hellkat]

Seriously though, I sometimes get other dogs (big and small) attacking Bruno, cos although he looks like an 'ard nut, he's actually a bit of a poofter.

Usually he's the bigger musclier dog, and a lot of owners are wary of us, although I do try to spot them coming and put him on a lead, occasionally I miss one or two and they get into doggy fisticuffs.

But a few weeks ago on Wanstead Flats, he was set upon by two HUGE white fluffy dogs (I'm assuming they were Samoyed or something, could have been big Akita's) and they literally dwarfed him. Fortunately they both had muzzles on, else he would have been shredded.

Guess you just have to be vigilant. *shrugs* I reckon that dogs, even adult ones, are like babies: they have to be told, what's right and what's wrong in terms of living with humans (especially in a heavily populated area) ... only you know what is the right thing to do and you have to tell them, you have to set them the example.

I'll come back later (when I'm not actually supposed to be working) and read your OP and the answers properly
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Not nearly as interesting in real life.

[RichieZX6R]

I can see where your coming from, i have a lurcher that can be quite aggressive towards other dogs. She was attacked by a bull terrier of some sort a long time ago and is very timid now. Shes nervous of any noise in the back lane when its windy and if you shout her name to 'aggressive' she wont usually come back. I tend to keep her on and extenable lead while i'm walking/training her and shes getting alot better now. I also have a training lead. I warn people from a good distance "shes aggressive mate, get your dog now".

See a little black scruffy dog all the time that barks constantly and it ran up the lurcher one day barking etc and i said in a polite but loud tone "get your dog, she nervous of other dogs" owner didnt come, black scruffy thing still coming so i shouted "mate get your dog or the lurcher will have it!" at which point he ran!

Some people can be very ignorant in this manner. I just I tend to stay away from the usual dog walking places and walk her up the back lanes and the fields when we out hunting. Shes very lazy and sleeps most of the day anyway. For a 4 year old i really think she would want more exercise but she likes to "veg out" alot
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[shereen]

[RichieZX6R]

[Livefast123]

I love dogs but the amount of dog owners that clearly have no idea of responsibility is incredible. Dogs are wild creatures and no matter how 'house trained and cuddly' they are you can never trust them 100%.

I regularly take my 3 year old daughter to the seafront where there is a large park area that is obviously popular with families and dog walkers. I have to keep my daughter on a lead because there are so many dogs just running round uncontrolled. There are regular fights and i've seen dogs being aggressive towards other kids. If one came up being aggressive towards my daughter i'd quite happily drop kick it and it's owner into the sea.

Just like riding a bike or driving a car when your in public it's your responsibility to keep it under control. I think somewhere there is an offence of not having a dog under proper control.
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[WildGoose]

[potato]

I think people should be fined or something for not having their dog on a lead in a public place.

The amount of staffs i see around here not on the lead is the main reason mine rarely gets taken for a walk, and i shouldn't have to travel elsewhere just to walk my dog.... i live here.
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[WildGoose]

[The Artist]

So you used to take your dog for a walk with no lead then when yours was attacked you realised a lead would be a better option and you then have a go at other people for having their dogs off leads?

I don't have a dog in case your wondering, I have just read your post, that is all.

[Chalky.]

Very rarely put mine on the lead, don't have any problems!

I'm a responsible owner.

[dogbot]

Walk off the lead if we're away from roads and so on, but always put it back on if other dogs approach. More for them than me. I'm not taking responsibility for your dog starting, and mine finishing it.

[shereen]

[WildGoose]

Dogs are worse on leads generally, as they feel threatened by not being able to move freely. Thus get more aggressive. It isn't the answer to anything.

Especially as most people would struggle to control a dog on its lead if it was kicking off.

You'll find if you let dogs off the leads to interact, they will revert to the normal procedure of interaction, sniffing balls etc. A generally much more peaceful process. Then more often than not, having done as they wished, they will move on.

You are never going to learn anything about your dog, if it never comes off the lead.

[msgander]

To be honest the OP sounds a little dog phobic, possibly because of paddy being attacked in the past. However, just because a dog has it's ears pricked up doesnt mean it will attack.

Have you tried muzzling yours and then actually letting it off? Any dog on a lead is going to feel compromised if others are off lead, and are notoriously aggressive when approached.

Most dogs can sort themselves out quite nicely if ALL off lead.

I for one would absolutely pummel you if you shoved one of my dogs in a canal! Surprised you didnt end up in there yourself from the dog owner. Not convinced you are a dog lover, you love your own dog for sure, but even then who takes there dog jogging, its the same as the idiots who ride bikes with them!


If you think paddy may snap then muzzle him, if you are saying that every dog doesnt like yours, I would look a bit further towards paddy being the problem dog, ie aggressive and walk elsewhere.

You also need to learn doggy language a bit more from your post, you sound highly sensitised to what "could" happen, rather than what does, no wonder your dog is nervous too, they will pick it up from you.

If you heard a pack of 6 dogs that our 2 run with there are moments of Play that sound like full on attack, but it is simply rough and tumble. Real dog people know this, but you can tell the ones that don't have a clue as they look on in horror!
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[YUN]

IMO...I think you are being a little bit sensitive.

I agree with Wildgoose - in the sense that you can't expect all dog owners to put their dogs on leads just because your dog has socialisation problems. Of course, if their dog is unfriendly - then they should be put on a lead but to generalise that all dogs that come near your dog should be on leads is a bit
Kicking them in the canal is something I completely disagree with

The park where we live has many dog owners. Almost every single dog is off-lead when they reach the park. It is good for dogs to socialise (just like humans) and this will generally make them less defensive when they meet new dogs.

My dog is a beg-friend dog and will go up to anyone and any dog for a sniff and wait patiently for a pat on the head. However, I will lead him up if there are young children or if another dog looks like it wants to attack.
I am more than happy for other dogs to meet and greet Billy off lead.....usually leave them to it and they have a little play, chase and scuffle.

Majority of the dog owners here who know their dogs have socialisation problems will lead them up all the time. Last week, a dog owner put a lead on his dog the minute we came into view. I put Billy on his lead..only because I saw that he did (for precaution). We walked past, said hello and he explained that his dog is a bit of a nutter and not so friendly with other dogs. I think this was the CORRECT thing to do! Owners should be responsible for their OWN dog instead of expecting other dog owners to assume or generalise. How would we know that your dog doesn't like other dogs?
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