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Paulington
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PostPosted: 09:00 - 26 Jul 2011    Post subject: Magic, do you like it? Reply with quote

Hey guys,

Just been thinking, I've been ordering some new things to complement my magic arsenal ranging from new fly-looking decks to whole illusions and I thought I'd ask you all a question:

Do you like magic? If so why and do you practice magic?

I've always enjoyed practicing and performing magic just for the sense of accomplishment when you absolutely master an illusion and then the feeling of amazement you can see when you notice that everyone in the audience just had a little glint of amazement in their eyes.

I'm sure some of you have been watching the recent Penn & Teller: Fool Us programme on ITV? If so fantastic and what do you think?

I must stress though, that if you don't 'enjoy' magic then I'd suggest changing your view of it. I know a lot of people that don't enjoy magic because they hate not being told how it's done/being unable to figure it out where all you should actually be doing is just enjoying the showmanship of the magician.

If you aren't sure if you like it as you've only ever been exposed to "mediocre" style magic, i.e. bad wedding magicians and stupid David Blaine stunts, then I'd take a look at some of these, a couple of which have recently performed on the Penn & Teller show:

Cubic Act - A very compelling stage illusion.

Coinvexed - An off-the-shelf micromagic illusion designed to stun and amaze.

Dual Reality - Another micromagic illusion by Kenton Knepper, a famous mentalist and protagonist of dual reality and instant stooges.

Penn & Teller performing "Shadows", a stage illusion that no-one but Penn & Teller themselves know how to perform.

Penn & Teller Explaining Sleight of Hand in the form of a fantastic illusion.

"Explaining Slight of Hand" is the best in my opinion.

I hope there are a few magic fans on here, if you like watching it I'd highly suggest practicing it, it's a very rewarding hobby and can win you plenty of drinks down the pub once you get good. Wink.

Cheers!
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 26 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason I hate TV magic is it's performed by lying cnuts who state no camera trickery is involved when it blatantly is. Or utter wankers like Derren Brown who actually thinks he can convince anyone with half a brain that he really did fire a revolver at his own head with one round in the cylinder without knowing if it was behind the barrel or not.
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Last edited by Hetzer on 09:27 - 26 Jul 2011; edited 1 time in total
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mistergixer
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PostPosted: 09:17 - 26 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love magic, don't really know any myself (unless you count fooling my small children with '2 little dickie birds' as magic).

When I used to live in Welwyn Garden City there was a chap who used to come round the curry houses etc and do magic tricks at the table - he was awesome and would always get good tips from us.
It was little stuff like card tricks and spoon bending and a bit of 'mind-reading', but he was absolutely excellent and had a really good patter with it.
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 09:19 - 26 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
The reason I hate TV magic is it's performed by lying cnuts who state no camera trickery is involved when it blatantly is. Or utter wankers like Derren Brown who actually thinks he can convince anyone with half a brain that he really did fire a revolver with one round in the cylinder without knowing if it was behind the barrel or not.

This is partially in my point above as to why a lot of people nowadays do not like magic, they see it on TV and just think to themselves:

"Oh, it's obviously a stooge even though they say it's not".
"Well that guy obviously didn't have ANY non-blank rounds in the chamber".

Ad nauseum.

Hence why it's always good to watch real magic on YouTube, the whole street magic and other things performed directly in front of you, heck even going to see a live magic act. There is NO comparison between seeing magic on TV and seeing it live, you lose a lot of the sense of amazement.

On certain TV programs (I know for a fact P&T don't use camera trickery on any of their magic shows, be it old or new and I know that as I know people who saw them filmed live and there is no difference between what they performed live and what was aired) there is no trickery, but on others (such as Dynamo Rolling Eyes) they creatively edit, often editing out the sleight of hand or the preparation required and that's one of the things that irks me about magicians like him, they do tricks that are one-time things I.E. if they are asked to do it again, they can't as it requires a lot of setup.

To me? That's not magic.
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Chriss
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PostPosted: 09:40 - 26 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paulington wrote:
To me? That's not magic.


But that's the whole point. None of it is magic. What you do, isn't magic. It's an illusion. It's a skill. David Beckham can keep a football in the air using just two feet. I can't do it, he can, it's impressive. I know it's a skill. An illusionist sometimes has a skill, such as sleight of hand. They just pretend it's 'magic'. For some reason they insist they have to keep it all a secret. Perhaps if we knew what was involved, it wouldn't be 'impressive'. Rolling Eyes

Personally, I hate 'illusions' without knowing how it's done, since I can't appreciate the skill involved. I just find 'magic' boring and tedious. We all know there's a 'trick' involved, only he knows what the trick is. A boring charade to me. To me, it's only good for kids.
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 09:43 - 26 Jul 2011    Post subject: Re: Magic, do you like it? Reply with quote

Paulington wrote:
I must stress though, that if you don't 'enjoy' magic then I'd suggest changing your view of it. I know a lot of people that don't enjoy magic because they hate not being told how it's done/being unable to figure it out where all you should actually be doing is just enjoying the showmanship of the magician.



So it is only ok to enjoy magic if we enjoy it in the way you want us to Middle Finger ...

Beyond the technical aspects of the tricks I detest magic. The only bit I enjoy is how it is done, the actual performances and the performers themselves do not interest me in slightest. It's for kids, too boring for adults.
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 09:54 - 26 Jul 2011    Post subject: Re: Magic, do you like it? Reply with quote

DonnyBrago wrote:
Paulington wrote:
I must stress though, that if you don't 'enjoy' magic then I'd suggest changing your view of it. I know a lot of people that don't enjoy magic because they hate not being told how it's done/being unable to figure it out where all you should actually be doing is just enjoying the showmanship of the magician.



So it is only ok to enjoy magic if we enjoy it in the way you want us to Middle Finger ...

Beyond the technical aspects of the tricks I detest magic. The only bit I enjoy is how it is done, the actual performances and the performers themselves do not interest me in slightest. It's for kids, too boring for adults.

I direct your attention to my usage of the word 'suggest'.

Definition: Put forward for consideration.

I disagree with your belief that it's for children only and that it's too boring for adults, but that's okay. Thumbs Up.

Chriss:

I don't see how you cannot appreciate the skill involved personally. It takes decades of practice every day to get to the level of being a professional magician and if you were shown what some illusions, specifically street magic such as coin/card/bottle/transfer illusions that involve sleight of hand, misdirection and many other skills you may appreciate it a little more.

Much in the same way a lot of people don't appreciate racing because "Hurr it's just driving fast in circles" it is genuinely because they don't see how difficult it is to perform flawless illusions, especially if your act involves a complicated sleight illusion with many different lifts, splits, palms and false moves.

The reason magicians are so secretive about it is because if you know the secret behind performing an illusion, the wonder disappears and all you're left with is "Oh, I see, cool" and nothing else. Personally I'd rather be left thinking and racking my brain for days after trying to figure out how it was done than be told straight away.

But as I've said above, if you don't like it then thank you for sharing your reasons. It's interesting to know. Smile.
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D O G
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 26 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do like it, I appreciate the skills and practice involved.

It just isn't as good when you're an adult, as ultimately the answer as to how it is done is always the same - they fooled you with a secret compartment/had something 'up their sleeve'/have a trick coin/have a stooge etc etc.

There is no 'wonderment' like there was when you were a kid.
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 11:16 - 26 Jul 2011    Post subject: Re: Magic, do you like it? Reply with quote

Paulington wrote:

I direct your attention to my usage of the word 'suggest'.

Definition: Put forward for consideration.


It wasn't your suggestion that we all enjoy magic that I was referring to, it was your comment that we SHOULD be enjoying the showmanship rather than the technical aspects of the tricks.

"Should" in the context you used it means obligation or duty, i.e. the correct way to enjoy magic is by enjoying the performance not the mechanics.

I reiterate my Middle Finger in that I will enjoy/not enjoy it however I want.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 11:43 - 26 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like magic as you know it isn't real, but working out how they did it does interest me, although often when you find out how it is done you're disappointed.
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hellbound
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 26 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derren Brown sometimes amuses me, it looks clever on the TV but the trouble is no one will tune in and watch a bloke with a deck of cards so he has to do something better to get the airtime.

David Blane however has no right to even call himself a magician
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Nai
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PostPosted: 13:09 - 26 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not interested in big show magic but absolutely love Tommy Cooper and The great Ballantine.

Ballentine : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqQVq-tfVaU

Cooper (like you need a link) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc3u9bVV6s4&feature=related
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 15:04 - 26 Jul 2011    Post subject: Re: Magic, do you like it? Reply with quote

DonnyBrago wrote:
Paulington wrote:

I direct your attention to my usage of the word 'suggest'.

Definition: Put forward for consideration.


It wasn't your suggestion that we all enjoy magic that I was referring to, it was your comment that we SHOULD be enjoying the showmanship rather than the technical aspects of the tricks.

"Should" in the context you used it means obligation or duty, i.e. the correct way to enjoy magic is by enjoying the performance not the mechanics.

I reiterate my Middle Finger in that I will enjoy/not enjoy it however I want.

Once again you are misunderstanding me.

I never at any point said you SHOULD enjoy the showmanship instead of the technical aspect of the work, I simply suggested that by chance you dislike magic BECAUSE of the dislike of the technical side then maybe you would like it if you looked at magic as more of a show rather than something to be figured out.

Cheers. Smile.
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elgard
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PostPosted: 18:05 - 26 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been watching Dynamo: Magician Impossible on Watch (Sky channel) and that guy is good, But i must admit despite the good tricks it's more a case of how the fuck did he do that.

https://youtu.be/OOKn0XBUDCI
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Bendy
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 26 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good magician with a good act is a thing of beauty. Even though you know it isn't 'magic', if just for a second or two you're actually amazed then it's like being a kid again. If you're completely stumped as to how it could be possible, so much the better. A long-practiced skill executed perfectly is great to watch. Things that involve camera trickery and stooges, not so much.

Lots of it is the act too. Love Penn & Teller, can't stand David Copperfield, for example.

It's kind of like watching a film - a good one makes you forget that you're watching actors act and loses you in the story. Too many special effects and it gets a bit Confused
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G
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PostPosted: 10:55 - 27 Jul 2011    Post subject: Re: Magic, do you like it? Reply with quote

Paulington wrote:

I don't see how you cannot appreciate the skill involved personally. It takes decades of practice every day to get to the level of being a professional magician

So the same as a top-level knitter, then.
Bet you won't be going to google knitting conventions on google, however Wink.

Part of what annoys me is all the 'patter'; I want them to show me good stuff, not spend ten minutes telling me how great the 20 second trick is going to be. Makes the experience worse not better for me.

In the end it is just 'tricks'.
I don't see there's a massive difference between people editing in camera, or by placing the audience in a specific place, or by paying a load of money for specially crafted props. It's all just part of the same genre of trickery to my mind.

I'm more impressed by those adept at general circus skills.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 27 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like magic - and I get disappointed when they tell you "how it was done".

At first, the novelty of knowing used to appeal to me, but now - in such a cynical and harsh world - I would rather suspend my disbelief sometimes, and be amazed instead.

I'm a realist in my life - strangely, I don't believe in ghosts or all that hoodoo (although I am prepared to be open-minded about it) - but I do love simple magic tricks.

Life is too short, its impossible to know ALL the answers, so why try to spoil life's little childlike pleasures.
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 13:02 - 27 Jul 2011    Post subject: Re: Magic, do you like it? Reply with quote

I am not misunderstanding anything.


Paulington wrote:
I never at any point said you SHOULD enjoy the showmanship instead of the technical aspect of the work


Yes you did.


Paulington wrote:
I simply suggested that by chance you dislike magic BECAUSE of the dislike of the technical side then maybe you would like it if you looked at magic as more of a show rather than something to be figured out.


No you didn't, if you wanted to then that is another issue but you didn't do a very good job.



You said:
Paulington wrote:
I know a lot of people that don't enjoy magic because they hate not being told how it's done/being unable to figure it out where all you should actually be doing is just enjoying the showmanship of the magician.



Whatever you now claim your intended message was, you wrote that we SHOULD JUST enjoy the showmanship.

Either way I don't particularly care, the performance is the worst bit. Suggesting or otherwise that someone enjoys the showmanship is similar to someone suggesting that I enjoy the opera - the amount of skill involved is largely irrelevant when it is showy and boring.
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 23:36 - 27 Jul 2011    Post subject: Re: Magic, do you like it? Reply with quote

DonnyBrago wrote:
I am not misunderstanding anything.


Paulington wrote:
I never at any point said you SHOULD enjoy the showmanship instead of the technical aspect of the work


Yes you did.


Paulington wrote:
I simply suggested that by chance you dislike magic BECAUSE of the dislike of the technical side then maybe you would like it if you looked at magic as more of a show rather than something to be figured out.


No you didn't, if you wanted to then that is another issue but you didn't do a very good job.



You said:
Paulington wrote:
I know a lot of people that don't enjoy magic because they hate not being told how it's done/being unable to figure it out where all you should actually be doing is just enjoying the showmanship of the magician.



Whatever you now claim your intended message was, you wrote that we SHOULD JUST enjoy the showmanship.

Either way I don't particularly care, the performance is the worst bit. Suggesting or otherwise that someone enjoys the showmanship is similar to someone suggesting that I enjoy the opera - the amount of skill involved is largely irrelevant when it is showy and boring.

Careful editing there, particularly impressive.

As above, I point to the word SUGGEST, I never TOLD you to do anything, I SUGGESTED it, this has no inference of you actually doing it as it's down to your own beliefs.

Secondly, I refer to the WHOLE paragraph, saying that if you DO NOT like magic then MAYBE trying to enjoy it in a different way (instead of trying to figure it out, enjoy the showmanship) then you may begin to like it!

That is exactly what I said except you are trying to infer that I TOLD you to do something no matter what your beliefs, that was never done at all.

What I said was akin to suggesting to someone who hates MotoGP because of the noise to enjoy the spectacle involved instead, it's a suggestion FOR YOUR BENEFIT that may allow you to enjoy the subject more, nothing else.

Thanks for the replies guys, I'm glad there are some fans of magic on here.

G: Nice to see you also enjoy people who are also like top level knitters in terms of practice. Thumbs Up.
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PostPosted: 23:47 - 27 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely "Magic" is what Harry Potter and Merlin do?

There's no such thing as magic. There are some very impressive illusionists out there but, as others have said, to the cynical mind the greatest trick of all is keeping the method a secret and, from this spectator's point of view, the most enjoyment is found from speculating on the method.
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kerr
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PostPosted: 23:54 - 27 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

penn and teller are the only magicians i still like from childhood, i remember watching the slight of hand on tv an spent hpurs trying it Smile
and btw can any thread on here turn into an argument Confused
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 02:48 - 28 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

kerr wrote:
penn and teller are the only magicians i still like from childhood, i remember watching the slight of hand on tv an spent hpurs trying it Smile
and btw can any thread on here turn into an argument Confused

Tell me about it. Rolling Eyes.

Did you ever get the sleight of hand down? Laughing!

I think sleight of hand is the most hard-hitting in terms of the shock/amazement factor in close up/micromagic as it genuinely makes it seem like an impossibility.

In fact, an illusion I do which requires a LOT of sleight of hand done to perfection each time is often called camera-trickery by those that see it on YouTube/TV etc as it does legitimately seem so impossible to some people.

To be honest with you? If someone said my illusions were camera trickery/fake etc then I would be very appreciative and consider it a massive compliment that something thinks it's so impossible.

On a side note, my hands are blistering like mad from practicing some card illusions at the moment. Crying or Very sad!
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Bike Bunker
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PostPosted: 03:06 - 28 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

i can play and always win a game of three card monty and can pull5-6 card tricks but thats about it :')

won £80 at college playing three card monty once...had to have a 'important meeting' after the cafe women lost £10 and a snickers bar playing.....stupid bitch.
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Bendy
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PostPosted: 10:52 - 28 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paulington wrote:


In fact, an illusion I do which requires a LOT of sleight of hand done to perfection each time is often called camera-trickery by those that see it on YouTube/TV etc as it does legitimately seem so impossible to some people.


Much like people are prone to crying 'Photoshop!' at pictures they'd be unable to take themselves (or of things they can't do themselves), the internet generation seem particularly cynical and tend not to think that something may be actual skill, practice and dedication.
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 28 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magic is a funny old thing.

Amazingly it can make people very angry, seemingly because they are disappointed that it is not "real magic", as if there were ever such a thing.... Rolling Eyes Some people get offended by the fact that in a way they are being fleeced, I guess they can't take that step back and appreciate it for what it is and appreciate the skill and mastery required, alas it is pointless arguing the toss with such folk as you will not convince them otherwise. It seems you either love it or loath it.

I enjoy a good magic trick, can't be bothered with the whole dramatics of it so shite like david copperfield is out, I prefer the close-up style. David Blain was good when he was doing his street magic, but when he started standing on poles and sitting in boxes I lost interest.

Haven't catched any Dynamo but I keep hearing it's good. Been watching Penn & Tellers fool us and there's some good guys on that too.

One of my favourite magic tricks I've seen in person and on the net I think goes along the lines of them having four cards, say 7, 8, 9 and 10 of hearts, then he flips them over 1 at a time and all of a sudden they are all the 8 of hearts, then does it again and now they are all 10 of hearts, then finally says that what we've seen is impossible because in actual fact there are no heart cards in there, finally flipping them all over to reveal they are all the king of spades.

Sounds shit to describe it, I know how it's done through double-lifts and such but even so it's still a marvel to behold. A friend of my brothers is shit hot at things like this and could do that very trick, I asked how you become so good at it, he said "Dump you girlfriend, lock yourself in your room for 2 years and practice practice practice". I Laughed but it turned out he was quite serious Laughing

I wish I could find a video of that trick I described but I can't recall what it's called and with so many card tricks out there it's virtually impossible to google it.


Edit: LMAO I just typed "card trick" into youtube and whaddya know, it's the first result that came up, not quite how I described it but it was a couple of years since I saw it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBvl1kuPLC8

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