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DSA FY 2010-2011 report is out

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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 13:15 - 04 Jul 2011    Post subject: DSA FY 2010-2011 report is out Reply with quote
Here you go.

Crib notes:

The Driving Standards Agency wrote:

14. Develop proposals for consultation on the Modernising Rider Training based on a syllabus and competence framework by 31 March 2011 [Missed delivery] due to key staff required in higher priority work, including motorcycle review Question

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Arrow 64,000 Theory tests, 81% pass rate
Arrow 64,000[1] Mod 1 tests, 65% pass rate
Arrow 55,000[1] Mod 2 tests, 70% pass rate = 38,500 new bikers

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As part of the Learning to Ride project we have been working with the motorcycle community to develop a range of proposals designed to improve training arrangements by updating the existing compulsory basic training (CBT) scheme. We want it to align better with the National Standard for safe and responsible riding and to enhance the professionalism of motorcycle instructors. These discussions will provide the foundation for any further developments that may lead to consultation and additionally align with the EU 3rd Directive[2] [blah blah] During the year we have held a significant number of stakeholder workshops to inform the development of proposals to achieve the objectives of the project.[3]

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Review of the practical motorcycle test
In June 2010 the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport announced a review of motorcycle testing and in December 2010 the interim report was published. DSA are working with the Department for Transport and the motorcycle industry to develop improvements to the future delivery and content of the motorcycle test. Some early changes to the test to make it more realistic and improve efficiency have been introduced from May 2011. These have been widely welcomed. The research into more comprehensive changes is due to start in June 2011.

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EU 3rd Directive
The EU Third Directive on Driving Licences (2006/126/EC) requires Great Britain to introduce new European arrangements for driver testing, training, examination and licensing. [blah blah] DSA has been working with the Department for Transport and the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) on taking forward the implementation of the Directive to meet the date of 19 January 2013[2] for operational changes to take effect.

The DSA has lead responsibility for:
tests for the new motorcycle categories and the qualification arrangements for staged access for younger riders seeking a full licence to ride larger motorcycles [...]

In 2010-11 we have: [blah blah] [3]

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satisfaction levels of Approved training bodies (ATB) were only 67 per cent, reflecting ongoing concerns about the motorcycle test arrangements

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Reporting of injuries, diseases and dangerous occurrences regulations (RIDDORs)

Numbers of incidents this year that were reported to the Health and Safety Executive are:
Public direct to hospital: 54

The largest number of ‘RIDDOR’ reportable incidents (reportable to the Health and Safety Executive) occurred during testing for the Module 1 of the motorcycle test. This accounted for most of the Public RIDDORs.

----------------------------------------------

Accounts (for test income / expenditure)

Motorcycles
Income: £6,966,000
Expenditure: £8,894,000
Loss: £1,928,000

Compulsory basic training
Income: £1,371,000
Expenditure: £1,937,000
Loss: £566,000

----------------------------------------------

There is a current review of both the motorcycle test and the option of taking the test to the customer. Trials are being carried out by the agency in assessing whether the options are viable.


[1] If it looks like the numbers don't add up, remember that they include retests. The only one that really matters is the number of new bikers. Note that pass rates in all motorcyle tests (theory and practical) equal or exceed those for any other vehicle class, including professional / commercial Exclamation

[2] Our 3rd Directive implementation was required to have been published in its final form on 19th January 2011. It's now over 6 months late, or 25% of the way to the implementation date.

[3] "We've achieved nothing this year"

As you were.
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 16:56 - 04 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
I read that whole lot through and was about to post how vague and wishy-washy it all was, then right at the end I saw your 3rd footnote.

Why are they so useless? Honest opinion.
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Biker Alex
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Joined: 18 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: 18:08 - 04 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wait I paid £75 for a guy to follow me for 30mins and they still manage to make a loss?

and DSA lost over half a million on the CBT when they dont even attend to them?

there must be a DSA toilet equipped with £50 note toilet paper somewhere.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 20:27 - 04 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
The losses are an issue that they will address with either redundancies or charging more. Brobably both.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:43 - 04 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doug97 wrote:
Why are they so useless? Honest opinion.


There are no consequences for them when they screw up. Really, we're relying on their goodwill to actually get anything done. I've filed a petition with the EU to oblige the UK government to meet their 3rd Directive obligation to publish, but the DfT reckon they've already told the EU that the dog has eaten their homework and they'll publish when they're good and ready.

On the costs, it seems likely that it's Mod 1 that's costing them. That would explain why they're so keen to ditch Mod 1 altogether, or send examiners out to do a more informal test at training schools.

On the CBT, I have no idea what on earth the DSA is spending the money on. 1,103 "monitoring visits" at, uh... £1756 per visit? Could drop them a FOI for a breakdown - they're very proud of how fast they process them. Wink
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McFlufferson
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PostPosted: 22:32 - 04 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
My mother worked in local council for a while on the Adult Learning courses as a teacher. She often told me about how much money was wasted on this or that. Pens were a bit fiddly, they were thrown out and new ones bought. A small meeting was called, it was catered as though there were a wedding bash going on. Things like that. Plus there were things that should cost - Like wages, rent, transport etc. I'm sure there are plenty of people on these forums that have worked or know someone who has worked in a government deparment too. So we all know how much money is wasted by them.

I know DSA isn't council, but it's government all the same. Personally I think once it's all added up, it makes sense that even though I'm to pay £75 for a guy to follow me for half an hour, they're still making a loss.

In my opinion, government deparments needs some serious auditing done. Then maybe it'll save the public a bit of money.

At the end of the day I'm glad to see they're making a loss. Even though I'm still one of the many that have the pick up that bill anyway, it makes me feel less like I'm being ripped off for taking a driving or riding test. I'm ripped off quite enough as it is just trying to drive around on public roads afterwards.

The pass rate for Mod2s is incouraging though. : D

I'm also curious about the injuries caused during Mod1. Any details on that?
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Trainerman
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Joined: 16 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: 20:19 - 16 Jul 2011    Post subject: DSA Reply with quote
@Rogerborg actually the DSA are doing everything possible to avoid ditching Mod 1, to do so would be to admit they got it wrong. The DSA are an incredibly arrogant organisation, they have openly admitted in the past that car driving tests are their core business and everything else takes very much a second place.

@McFlufferson - the incidents on Mod 1 have ranged from the fairly minor - scuffs, scrapes etc to broken limbs and one unsubstantiated case of a serious neck injury.

To be fair, if the test is performed properly, then it's fairly straight forward process. Most of the problems (I stress, MOST not all) have arisen from people turning up on their own 125, having had no professional tuition and just having a go.
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McFlufferson
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PostPosted: 21:23 - 16 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hm yeah. That makes sense. One instructor I talked to did say that he feels most offs on the swerve are probably caused by hitting the breaks whilse in the lean. Which I needed professional tuition to learn my way out of that habit.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:26 - 16 Jul 2011    Post subject: Re: DSA Reply with quote
Hi, good to hear the inside scoop. Any sign of movement on the 3rd Directive implementation yet?

Trainerman wrote:
@Rogerborg actually the DSA are doing everything possible to avoid ditching Mod 1, to do so would be to admit they got it wrong.


Cheerfully corrected: I should have said that the DfT Ministers seem to want to ditch it.

Trainerman wrote:
To be fair, if [Mod 1] test is performed properly, then it's fairly straight forward process. Most of the problems (I stress, MOST not all) have arisen from people turning up on their own 125, having had no professional tuition and just having a go.


Sounds likely, but the test does have to be geared to that. I like the recent changes, they give more chances to weed out the spackers before they injure themselves.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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tvr321
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Joined: 20 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: 22:26 - 16 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:

There are no consequences for them when they screw up. Really, we're relying on their goodwill to actually get anything done. I've filed a petition with the EU to oblige the UK government to meet their 3rd Directive obligation to publish, but the DfT reckon they've already told the EU that the dog has eaten their homework and they'll publish when they're good and ready.

On the costs, it seems likely that it's Mod 1 that's costing them. That would explain why they're so keen to ditch Mod 1 altogether, or send examiners out to do a more informal test at training schools.

On the CBT, I have no idea what on earth the DSA is spending the money on. 1,103 "monitoring visits" at, uh... £1756 per visit? Could drop them a FOI for a breakdown - they're very proud of how fast they process them. Wink


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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:59 - 17 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
tvr321 wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
I've filed a petition with the EU to oblige the UK government to meet their 3rd Directive obligation to publish, but the DfT reckon they've already told the EU that the dog has eaten their homework and they'll publish when they're good and ready.


Y U DO THIS?


They are ostensibly our government, and our EU Parliament. They, very much in theory, work for us. They are, very much in practice, funded by us.

It's marginally more useful than just pissing and moaning about how useless the DfT, Whitehall and Westminster are.

Why wouldn't I do it? Confused
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 17 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why can't we hire competent people to run these organisations?
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nowhere.elysium
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Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: 21:25 - 17 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Big_Ham wrote:
Why can't we hire competent people to run these organisations?


I don't know if administrative bodies are the same as educational ones, but in my experience, there's typically a lot of competent people who've had the drive to do well ground out of them by excessive rules, regulations, and red tape. Of course, there's quite a significant measure of idiots as well, but the number of workers who are both depressed and capable is very, very high.

As a country, we seem to want a totally unbalanced management structure in all of our public sector workforces. As a proven example, I currently have four managers - one's the one that I answer to regularly, ten there's the other one that I'm on loan from (but still answerable to), then there are two more that handle other aspects of my role. For the record, I'm a sysadmin that's been seconded to a support team. As such, my job has gotten deeply weird, although 'm fortunate enough to have been spared most of the paperwork that comes with working for some of these managers.
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blurredman
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PostPosted: 22:38 - 17 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
The EU is equally at fault here aswel as the DSA in my opinion.

For many years other countries have had it easier regarding legislation, and on the other hand many countries have had it hard.

I do think though that it all comes down to th EU being a joke.
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CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S, 1979 MZ TS150.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 18k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 10k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 40k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 51k.
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shadowbiker12...
Derestricted Danger



Joined: 27 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: 13:44 - 27 Jul 2011    Post subject: New test - Mike Penning road safety minister Reply with quote
I'm new here so Hello to everyone Smile

I'm 53 this year and been riding since i was a teenager, attempted the test twice with the same complete t*at on both occasions who was determined to fail me - my fault for not taking my test years ago when all you had to do is ride round the block and do an emergency stop.
Reminds me of a funny story - a mate of mine (retired now) was a removal man all his life and took his mate from work to the test centre so his mate could do his lorry test. While they were waiting a lad had came to do his bike test and was told to turn left, turn left again, turn left again, and again and when he came towards the examiner the examiner would step out and hold his clipboard up signalling for the rider to do an emergency stop. - so off the rider went. A little later a biker comes round the corner and the examiner steps out and raises his clipboard Smile the biker knocked him over. Then a minute later the lad taking his test comes round the corner - my mate was howling Smile

Mike Penning wants to redesign the test to be more relevent to actual realisitic riding on the road?

OK lets imagine its a normal day, i'm setting off to work on my bike as usual, when am I going to start weaving in and out of cones on the way to work? (maybe if i want to act like a clown if i come across some road works) when am i going to stop on the way to work and do a figure of 8? ditch it.

This is the way i ride...

1st the vehicle in front - if it slams on the brakes can i stop in time? - ok keep my distance.
2nd the car behind me - is he up my backside? if he is thats a real problem if i have to slam on. Solution - slow down to create a bigger gap between me and vehicle in front - if the guy behind is in such a hurry give him the chance to overtake.

3rd cars at junctions - i'm always wary - they even look you right in the eyes then at the last minute pull out at 5mph.
I always look at the oncoming traffic situation if there is a car at a junction - if theres a gap between traffic on the opposite side of the road then thats my escape route should the car at the junction pull out - but always be ready to slam on.

T - jucntions - always worth a quick check for cyclist coming up the inside - decent all round observation and signalling - off you go when its safe.
same at roundabouts.

Ive been riding what - 37 years never had an accident - you tell me - am i qulaified as safe to ride on the roads?
Or am i just another bloke who has to pay out this that and the other to gain a piece of paper entitling me to ride a 33bhp bike?

I met 2 lads in the test centre one day who were doing their DAS.
They had spent £3000 between them and had failed twice each - they said bolloc*s to it if they fail this time then they are just gonna get on the bloody bike and ride regardless.

Not sure thats the way to go but i can sympathise with them - illegal riding is on the up and at this rate we're gonna be a nation of 'L' plate riders.

If Mike Penning is going to make changes then make this one - stop the DSA having to have a quota of failures in order to produce revenue - as for the examiner i had - i swear the anger has never left me - i actually had tears in my eyes after the last test - when it had all gone perfect then he started mumbling over the comms - then said i'm stopping the test because you are not following directions - after 1 hour and 5 minutes on the road!!! If i ever meet that examiner in a pub etc i'd probably blow my lid and kick the crap out of him.
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WannaBeDude
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Joined: 05 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 27 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not read your post, cool story yadda yadda, your username is somewhat famous on here.

Search for shadowbiker ? ! Laughing

Btw / name changes are permitted every 30 days. Thumbs Up
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shadowbiker12...
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Joined: 27 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: 15:37 - 27 Jul 2011    Post subject: what Reply with quote
@Snowrider2

Sorry but you've lost me on that 1 - Not read the post then cool story then going on about my name?
No offence intended but what the hell are you on about lol
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shadowbiker12...
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Joined: 27 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: 18:27 - 28 Jul 2011    Post subject: thx snowrider Reply with quote
Ahh I see what you mean now... well i'm not that nob shadowbiker I'm the new nob.. I mean shadowbiker Smile

A little bit of news - my daughter took her DAS today and was convinced she'd failed - when they got back she'd passed with no errors jammy git.
I think that old perv examiner fancied my daughter i'll kill him.
Then again anyone got a blonde wig, some blow up boobs and makeup they can lend me? I might have a bash at the DAS test tee hee
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WannaBeDude
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 28 Jul 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Daughter passes DAS before DAD. Shocked Very Happy

FAIL ! Wink
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