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| rubberhedgeho... |
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rubberhedgeho...
Borekit Bruiser
Joined: 17 May 2011
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 Posted: 17:17 - 07 Aug 2011  Post subject: Small capacity bike - how do they fit taller riders? |
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Hi,
I was wondering if people on here can help a bit with regards to bike fit.
I am 6'2" and I'm not looking for a big sportsbike with many horsepowers (and subsequent license requirements). The bike should feel light enough to throw around twisty country roads where I live, and possibly allow me to take it off road down a green lane or two.
Because of this I'm looking for a smaller capacity bikes since they let you thrash them and shouldn't get your license taken away too readily.
I live in a rural area with lots of quiet roads than can be taken with 'gusto' 
The KTM Duke 125 looks pretty good and I've got to say that the 'boy racer' in me REALLY likes the look of it.
My issue is with the sizing.
I've ridden a Suzuki VanVan which felt cramped with my legs having to come up towards my elbows to let me sit - I feel the seat was set far too low to be comfortable. This made me very uncomfortable and my legs ACHED with tension after riding for an hour.
Is this KTM better? I read things like 'big bike stance' etc and was hoping that its seat is taller with a nicer riding position which allows arms and legs to remain relaxed instead of being squashed in as on the smaller Suzuki.
I'm not looking for a bigger capacity bike (with it's bigger sized frame) since I'm using my car most of the time that I'm not on my bicycle and would like to get cheaper insurance and good fuel economy.
Thanks for the input! |
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| Dazbo666 |
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Dazbo666
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| Posted: 17:24 - 07 Aug 2011 Post subject: |
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Never ridden a KTM myself, but I hear great things about them...
plus the fact that supermoto and trail bikes would probably suit the taller rider.
If at all possible, try to get to a dealership and sit on a few 
____________________
1st bike (Sept'06 - May'10) : 1991 GPZ500S / Current bike (since Nov 2009) : 2003 Suzuki Bandit 600N
Word of the day : DILLIGAF |
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| Muscle Bike Rider |
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Muscle Bike Rider
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
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| Posted: 18:12 - 07 Aug 2011 Post subject: |
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Yamaha DT175
You'll need a full licence for it though, as you would full power KTM.
Jacked, fits my 6'2" frame possibly a tad TOO well. Stock it well tall enough.
99Kg with all street kit, 17bhp, its a very useful 'tool', air cooled, drum braked, its a joy to spanner, and they are 'cheap' £700 buys you something pretty useful, and not in the Larner Legal capacity braket, don't suffer such premium loading.
As for 'green-laning' you do know that you cant just ride any old dirt track you come accross, don't you? Green-Lanes are unsurfaced public roads, and all Road Traffic Laws apply, BUT biggest issue is finding trails that ACTUALLY have vehicular rights on them, to ride down?
KTM? Nice bike, but over priced irrlevence in restricted 125 form, and a lot of money for what you get, in full power, full licence guise.
Plenty of more 'useful' dirt bikes out there, not all as antique as the DT, in the 175 - 400 range, that are light, powerful, easy to manage and CHEAP both to buy and to run.
For what you suggest you want the bike for, ANY of them; Kawasaki KMX200, DR350, or any of the more modern water cooled 4T's would be a better bet, BUT you would have to take a test to ride one.
BUT to my mind, £4K to gt a 125 you can tack Loonie-Plates on, against spending, Oh..... £121.50 for theory & two practicals above CBT.... or pushing the boat out on a DAS course and spending perhaps £600 to get the licence, so you can buy more bike, for half the money, that's cheaper to run? Seems a wierd bit of logic to insist on sticking to 125's?!
Comment about not wanting 'bigger' bike with 'bigger' frame, don't hold I'm afraid; sat height is sat height. My DT has taller sat height than my CB750.... Dirt bikes have tall seats, and there isn't much difference between a 100 and a 1000cc dirt bike by way of erganomics, only the size of the hole the piston sits in! Meanwhile, wight tends to be 'similar' too... and many more dedicated off-roaders, or competition dirt bikes can in larger capacities actually b lighter than smaller engine'd duel purpose bikes.
Other thought; knobly tyres and long travel suspension, do not work always wonderfuly on twisty tarmac.... these are duel purpos machines and inherently compromised, jack of all trades and masters of none.... you pays your money and takes your chances.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| rubberhedgeho... |
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rubberhedgeho...
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Joined: 17 May 2011
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| Muscle Bike Rider |
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Muscle Bike Rider
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| Posted: 19:17 - 07 Aug 2011 Post subject: |
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Where are you located?, if near me you can have a sit on my old one which is now my sons.
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Previously Known As A5tra_G
Old Bikes :2010 Kawasaki ER6 F & 2000 Honda VTR Firestorm
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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| Posted: 19:47 - 07 Aug 2011 Post subject: |
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| rubberhedgehog wrote: | Mike - thanks for that in depth reply.
The fact is that, with parents who are still worried every time I leave the house on my bicycle, I can't get them to agree to a bigger capacity bike. |
Didn't mention, its peg to seat distance as well as seat to floor.
Some dirt donks have really tall seat heights, I have 34" inside lg, and I can only 'just' flat foot them from the saddle, BUT, feet up, on th move, pegs are so HIGH off the floor, I might as well be on a race rep, with my heels up my arse hole!
You have to 'sit' them, feet on pegs as well as on the floor.... many also have a LOT of initial suspension movement; Snowie, my O/H... 9 stone wringing wet, 5'5", cant actually clamber aboard a mates DT125... but tilt it over for her, or give her step ladders.... and it squashes down six inches and she can just about tip to it!
Meanwhile PARENTS....... no real answer to that one....
However.... I think if they are reluctant or cautiouse, I'd go the Learner/Commuter route... cheap, dependable, 'sensible', show them some common sense 'at work', telling them it's only' to get your test on..... and let them see SPINDLY insubstantial bike that dosn't look flash, but doesn't look 'solid', and remind them that post test you'll be limited to 33bhp ANYWAY, and you can get 100mph 125's with that sort of power.... let them look long and hard at spindly insubstantial, blow away in the breeze CGish bike, and ponder on with three times the power...... and when you HAVE your full licence, return to the debate.....
"I have GOT my full licence now. I've SHOWN I can be 'sensible' going for chaper, slower 'learner' bike, shown I can be 'responsible' getting my tests done on it, and proved I can ride a 'bigger' bike.... NOW....... DON'T want to go get 600cc hyper bike, but WOULD like to get something a BIT better than the [whatever it is], that's a bit faster, so I can keep up with traffic on main roads, a bit more 'planted' on the road against side winds and bumps, and more comfortable, AND cheaper to insure.... I was thinking 250 single.... about 20bhp, and 80mph... big 'enough' but not more than I can handle......"
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| rubberhedgeho... |
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rubberhedgeho...
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 00:16 - 08 Aug 2011 Post subject: |
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| rubberhedgehog wrote: | Mike - Makes a lot of sense! I'm planning on doing something like that anyway..... can I take a test on a 125 and just be restricted to 33bhp for the first 2 years? |
Yup.
Do the 'standard 125' Mod1 & Mod2 on qualifying bike (120-125cc, & umpety Kw min) you get Full Licnce, with two year 33bhp rstriction, which an up to 200 two stroke or up to 400 four stroke single, Dirt Donk would likely be nicely complient without restriction.
| rubberhedgehog wrote: | A cheaper option (for a new bike that will have a warranty.....) is the Honda CBF125 which as far as I can tell is imported with the same spec as it is expected to sell billions of in India. Not highest quality, but enough to get me going and get good enough to pass the test, then sellable when I'm done with it. |
CBF is a 'nice' learner/commuter, bit pricey for what it is, and eco freindly fuel injection rather undermine a lot of user serviceability virtues of less sophisticated 'economy' bikes.... but everything seems to b going that way.... thy have fuel injected the India Enfield FFS!
Buying ANY bike brand new though, is a sure way to loos a lot of money on depreciation, more still on credit charges if you use finance, unless you can get some kind of discounted deal.
If you can afford that 'hit' though, piece of mind the bike has a warranty, and hasn't had a succession of newbie learner owners abusing it with clumsy gar changes and endless ham fisted e-stops, and the invitable 'off' or not knowing when or how to tension the chain and 'stuff'.... IS the 'Best' way to put good wheels under your bum that JUST let you worry about learning to ride.
My preffered alternative at the mo tho is the Yam YBR125. I belive it's gone EFi for this years model, and its a tad cheaper than the CBF, but was rumoured that dealers were clearing some 'old stock' carbed models at discount prices, around £2K, which is a real steal, and as a more user serviceable machine, likely to be a tad more desirable second hand, so sell more easily for better money, which could take a lot of 'sting' out of depreciation. Could be worth checking out?
BUT, if you intend training and testing; first up test system is changing in 18months time. Then you'll only get 125 'only' licence testing on a 125, you'll have to test DAS style on a 'big bike' 500ish, to get a 'restricted' licence, which will be permnantly restricted to 45Kw, or be over 24 to do DAS on full power bike to get unrestricted licence...
This MAY influence plans?
| rubberhedgehog wrote: | My only issue is that with the winter coming along I'll be doing less riding than if it was June - the roads around here are country lanes that get gritted occasionally so I reckon my biking trips will not be too frequent until April or so, but still, 3 times a week should be doable. |
Winter riding isn't so much fun...BUT, b worth making the effort. From next spring, test apointments are going to hav an even longer waiting list as folk 'rush' to get thier licences under current rules.
IF you did your training & tests over the winter..... it's 'slack season', and examiners will have more cause (cold, wet, dark!) to give you the benefit of the doubt.... they'll also see you as a more dedicated rider..... as well as standing more chance of getting early test dates.
| rubberhedgehog wrote: | My biggest hesitation with the whole thing is that with my car driving license I took a long time to book my test and did about 3 months of extra driving with my parents at a standard where I would have passed my test - my instructor told me that I was ready and yet I really like to repeat and repeat the maneouvres to get them 100% in my head before being examined on them.
Because of this the DAS courses don't appeal to me too much - how can I go from zero to hero (well, you get the idea) in 4 days is beyond me! |
Err, yeah, the DAS wun-weeek-wonders!
Trouble is DAS is not brilliantly understood. Stands for Direct Access Scheme... its a 'scheme' and its provided for by just THREE provisions in test law.
1/ Provisional Licence Holder over 21 years of age MAY, under radio supervision of qualified DAS instructor, ride motorcycle of more than 125cc & 14.5Kw on the public road, on L-Plats
2/ Provisional Licence Holder over 21 years of age MAY, take BOTH Mod 1 & Mod 2 Practical tests on motorcycle of more than 125cc & 14.5Kw
3/ Passing all qualifying tests, and Mod 1 & Mod 2 Practical tests on motorcycle of more than 125cc & 14.5Kw, will provide candidate FULL motorcycle licence without two year power restriction.
DAS does NOT mean you HAVE to do a DAS Course.... though to train on public roads on bike over 125, practically demands it.....
DAS does NOT mean you HAVE to do an 'Intensive', all in a week DAS Course.... though that is what most candidates want and most schools offer.
Trouble with intensive courses is, taking in all the info, and making sense of it all.
Learning to drive a car, you may have one one hour lesson a week for twelve weeks, to get to test standard, and possibly NO practice on your own between times.
But just time to 'mull over' each lesson, maybe see and take notice of traffic from the passenger seat, or even pavement, make some sense of each lesson before the next.
Four Day DAS, eight hours a day, 32 hours, more than twice what you would do for a car... BUT, 'cramming', not so much time to mull, interpret and make sense of.
It will get you a full licence, but wont necesserily prepare you wll for real riding, and 'nannied' the whole way with instructor or examiner in your ear piece, give a lot of false security....
Can go two ways; riders come out thinking that becouse they have 'done the course' they are a riding godd ready to take on the world, and can go buy that GPZXRRR600RR, confident in thier ability to handle 0-oblivion acceleration and warp speeds, straight off the stops..... OR they SUDDENLY have a crisis of 'faith' when thy realise that ACTUALLY they are on something VERY frighting, and thy ar ALL ALONE.... and CANT remember what the instructor told them about such and such!
DAS can be a useful tool, but you have to understand it, and know what its good for and what its limitations are, to make it work 'for' you rather than against you.
If you are a pedant, and like certainty, and practicing stuff till you have it 100% 'nailed', then I'd definitly say getting a 125 is a good way to go, but, going it alone, you will only learn by your mistakes.
Formal Lessons, are good to gt you doing stuff 'right' right from the start, and spaced out, weekly lessons, give you plenty of chance to take in what you are tought in byte sized chunks, and plenty of time to practice each excrsize between lessons., to your harts content.
This IS my 'reccomended' way to learn; its most ecconomical of paid for training; you are only paying for the useful bit when the instructor is actually 'teaching' you something, rather than a lot of extra time, JUST to meet the legal requirment for supervision, while you practice, doing a DAS course.
So you get 'more' training and more practice for your money, and solo riding betwen lessons, much better prepares you beyond mrly passing tests.
This is how I preffered to train people when I was instructing, and how I have Snowie training up with school I used to instruct for.
They offer seven week course of nominally two hour lessons, that gets about 90% of candidates to test standard, and sees about 90% of those through tests 1st time.
That ought to give you a reasonable idea of how much training is 'reasonable' to gt to test standard.
A four day intensive DAS course, would give you 32 hours of 'training time' and give you about a 50/50 chance of 1st time pass. Cost you about £750, and barely prepare you for real riding, on your own.
A two month, weekly road training course, would give you about 15 hours of 'training time' with 90% chance of first time pass. Cost about £250, and likely to give much 'better' preparation for real road riding, beyond merely learning to pass a test.
On THAT basis, intensive DAS courses really are a lot of money to pander to impatience.... and IF you have the mind set you suggest, traditional training IF you can find it, is likely to be a LOT more to your way of working.
Also dos NOT preclude taking tests under DAS rules....
Snowie is over 21.... we don't admit how much.... but she is therefor eligible for DAS.... I could have trained her up on hr 125 on the road, and my 750 on a car-park, then fiddled some insurance cover for her to ride it on tests, slapped L-Plates on it, and 2-upped her to test appointments to take tests under DAS rules, absolutely NO NEED of a school or DAS course.....
But I gave her the option, doing formal training, to do a DAS conversion lesson and 'try' a 500, and if she liked it, do just on or two DAS lessons and tests on School DAS bike, practicing 'road craft' between lessons on her 125 for thee best of both worlds.... she's opted to stick with her 125 and go restricted licence, because of the 'added' worry of getting to grips with a different, and bigger, heavier bike... her call and not an un-sensible one, she doesn't intend jumping on anything bigger than her Super dream for the foreseeable, and her 'next' bike she wants a Yamah 175 trials bike, so sh can come green-laning or trialsing with me, or a 500 twin, that easy enough to restrict, if hr restriction hasn't lapsed.
Thing IS you CAN mix and match, and use the DAS rules the way YOU want, NOT the way a commercial school tells you THEY want to!
AND.... two months.... Snowie has been 'at it' since beginning of June... she has a couple of lessons left, because she has skipped, and she has struggled with Mod 1, so ben set back waiting for repeat appointments.
BUT, gives you a reasonable time frame. EVEN doing it the traditional way, weekly lessons and self practice, you could have your full licence, in eight to sixteen weeks.....
Certainly, I would say six months. If you stretch it out much longer then the whole process is going to b loosing momentum, and you have the opposite problem to intensive courses, not taking in what you are tought, but simply forgetting it all!
Starting NOW, you ought to be fully qualified BEFORE next April!
On THAT kind of basis..... can you 'stand' the hit of deprciation, buying a brand new 125, to loose probably 1/3 of the sticker price, when you have 'done' with it, having put barely more than run in milage on it, and owned it 1/15 of its useful service life?
Would a 'newer' second hand bike, make more sense?
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| rubberhedgeho... |
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rubberhedgeho...
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| Posted: 13:46 - 08 Aug 2011 Post subject: |
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Mike, again, thanks for taking the time to write such an informative post (not to mention the time it must have taken you!).
I'm 24 (will be 25 in October) so qualify for the DAS but the fact that even if I pass after one week, it won't give me any sort of experience on a bigger bike in the real wide world and so the lesson every week or so is a great idea. I know a school near to me that offers this and will give them a shout.
The thing is that I don't have anyone to let me use their bigger bike to practice for the MOD1 in an empty car park and so I don't know if I can get the maneouvres polished to a good standard in 2 or 3 days with little practice. 
With regards to general road riding I do a lot of road cycling at speeds of up to 50km/h (if I've got a tailwind) and feel confident during normal road riding to be able to countersteer etc... Slow speed control is improving and I'm using a mountain bike and riding in tight circles and figures of 8 to improve my low speed cornering balance. I know they are not the same as a motorbike with a different centre of gravity etc, but still, this practice is better than none!
RE the depreciation : I see on MCN that lots of places have 2nd user 125s with mileage under 3k which I assume are bikes that were used for the purpose I have in mind - learn on them and then move to something bigger.
I assume that, as with cars, once you get one big hit of depreciation the second hit is less severe... certainly it would be cheaper to spend 2k now and use it for 4 months to learn with rather than to rent a bike 3 times a week to ride on!
I'm definitely gonna take the test before 18 months time - I just don't like to be pressured into taking a test on the Friday if I just start learning to ride on a Monday. I think I'll be too tensed up to actually enjoy what I'm doing. Once I'm confident with control at both low and high speed then I'm all willing to do a DAS course on a bigger bike to get used to the handling and spend 2 days learning to ride it with the tests at the end to give me a fully unrestricted license.
Thanks again for your help! |
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| bigguy |
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bigguy
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| bikertomm |
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bikertomm
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 15 years, 79 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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