Needs help!

Snow White Queen wrote:

Im new to this forum, but I am so pleased I came across it as I really need some advice.

Hi, if you read some of the posts already up, a lot of what you are asking is already covered in a lot of detail; but

Snow White Queen wrote:

How does one choose between a scooter, moped and a bike?

MOPED: Powered Two Wheel Vehicle, with engine capacity less than 50cc, and maximum speed not exceeding 35mph
Need not have pedals; can be styled like a bicycle, scooter, or small motorbike; '50's come in all shapes and sizes, from GP-Race bike styled sports-bikes to knobly tyre'd long travel suspension Scramblers, or 'Choppers'.
You may ride a MOPED on provisional licence entitlement provided at 16 years old, or the 'Full' moped licence entitlement provided by a Full-Car Licence.
Compulsary Basic Training, (CBT) muct be completed and a certificate of completion issued, to validate either Provisional Moped entitlement, or Full moped by Car licence (Subject to some legacy exemptions, if you past tests before 2000ish)
SCOOTER There is no 'strict' defanition of what a 'Scooter' is; but most commonly, its a Powered Two Wheeler, with a 'step-through' frame, the engine located under the rider's seat, with 'small' wheels, and enclosed bodywork around the engine and mechanical parts.
Frequently, they have automatic 'twist and go' transmission.
Older 'Traditional' scooters like the Vespa, or Lambretta, have manual transmission, with gears, operated by a twist grip, rather than a foot-pedal.
Scooters come in all engine capacities from 50cc to as much as 650cc for some 'modern' 'Super-Scooters. Traditionally, though they tend to be smaller capacity engines, up to around 200cc, most, though being 50, 100 or 125cc.
BIKE; Like a scooter there is no strict definition of what makes a bike a bike; but usually, they have larger wheels than a scooter; a frame that places the engine between the handle-bars and foot-pegs (better balence than a scooter); they nearly always have manual gearboxes; (there are probably half a dozen or less, 'automatic' motor-bikes), and again, come in many capacities from 50cc to, over 2000 these days! Styling wise, the variations are many, but basic genre's are Sports bikes; tail high, nose low, with large plastic fairings covering the engine for aerodynamics; Dirt Bikes; knobly tyres, long travel suspension, high level mudguards, wide handlebars and minimal equipment; Cruisers or 'Choppers', with raked forks, lay-back riding position, and lots of chrome; Tourers, that often have taller 'barn door' fairings upright riding position, and provision for luggage boxes; and then the 'generic' Street-Bike, or 'Naked' motorcycle, that's an allrounder; and in smaller capacities, often called a 'Commuter'.

Snow White Queen wrote:

I am going to do a CBT but will that mean I can ride a bike of a certain size engine?

For a Powered two Wheeler over 50cc, or faster than 35mph, you need a motorcycle licence.

Provisional Licence Entitlement allows you to ride machine up to 125cc and 11Kw power, once validated by a CBT Certificate, if you are over the age of 17.

Riding a motorcycle, on L-Plates, without passing a test is a loophole of legacy legislation, from the days before it was practicable to 'supervise' a Learner Motorcyclist, via 2-Way Radio communications, and was 'intended' merely so a Learner could practice for tests. CBT is NOT a riding qualification and in no WAY makes you a safe competant rider.

Motorcyclists are about three times more likely to have an accident than a car driver, and are about three times more likely to be seriously hurt in that accident. New drivers or Riders, (after Test) are about nine times more likely to have an accident than a driver or rider with more than three years experience.

L-Plate Riders, have the second highest, accident rate of any group of motorcyclists, and are about nine times more likely than a 'new' rider to have an accident.

Ie L-Plates is NOT a place you want to be very long, if you want to survive!

Good news is, if you have some common sense; you dont need to be there very long; more; there are a LOT of riders without much common sense, and they VERY helpfully, oblige and fill slots in the stats, for people that care to avoid them!

Yes, stats are scary; but there are a lot of 'loons' in motorcycling, so you dont HAVE to become a statistic; plenty of ready voluneteers amongst the loons to do that!

Snow White Queen wrote:

Do they have a way to get your bike license really quickly, in a week perhaps?

YES; many Schools offer 'Intensive' Training Courses; usually three or five days, and they may or may not include the actual motorcycle tests.

Most commonly offered Intensive courses are DAS courses. If you are over 21, you may ride a bike over 125cc on L-Plates, IF supervised by radio, by qualified and DSA Approved Motorcycle Instructor. You may also take the practical tests, Mod 1 & Mod 2 on a 'DAS' Bike, and if you pass, gain, imedietly, unrestricted 'Full' Licence.

For a complete beginner; Intensive Courses, are often not the best way to start; there is simply too much to take in, in too little time, and they are INCREDIBLY expensive. They do give a 'fast track' top a full licence, but they offer very little real 'preparation' for taking on a 'big' bike the qualification allows after, and many riders, post DAS, often find themselves completely out of thier depth, on a very powerful motorcycle, without the re-assurance of an instructor or examiner talking to them through an ear piece, thier mind completely 'blank' on all they were tought during lessons, because they took it all in so fast.....

Also mentioned that L-Platers have second highest accident stats; Immediet Post DAS riders, are the highest. And worse, they also account for the highest death rate.

Learners on a 125 Fuck Up, low powered bike, usually practicing something like an e-stop, they fall off and hurt no-one but themselves, and then usually only cuts and grazes.... and they live to go do it again..... some of them quite often (Told you about the number of loons, didn't I?)

DAS Jockeys; straight of the blocks; and particularly the ones that have done DAS as its a new hobby, and they are impatient to get a licence to get a nice shiney sports bike, to ride with thier mates on Sunny Sundays..... they particularly don't ride enough to get much experience, then go out thrill seeking...... well, their life expectancy might be measured in hours of saddle time from test pass... they dont get a second chance to make a mistake!

Training up, in weekly lessons, on your own 125, so you can practice between lessons what you are tought, and take it all in in much more easily managed and retained 'chuinks' is far more often, the far 'better' way to learn, and be much better prepared for 'big-biking' post test; also tends to be cheaper, and, need NOT take all that long; Three months of 125 L-Plating should be enough to get through tests. But you can STILL obtain licence under DAS, becouse you can take occassional Lessons and do Tests on a DAS bike, if that;'s what you want, and are eligible.

BUT, take note of the warnings, for both Intensive Courses and DAS Jokeys; DAS and Intensive courses CAN be legitimate tools and serve you 'OK' provided you know what thier short comings are; just DONT expect Intensive DAS to give you much but a full licence, and think that THAT is all you need to be able to 'handle' a modern hyper-bike......

Snow White Queen wrote:

How does one choose between a scooter, moped and a bike?

You now have a better idea of what's what, and what you need to ride; so, you now need to think on what you want a 'bike' for, what licence eligibility you may have, and how you might like to go about getting full licence entitlement... THAT might steer the choice a bit.

Basically 125 motorbike, lets you do training and tests, for 'Standard' motorcycle, giving you full licence with 33bhp restriction.

Many Scooters, being Auto or under 125cc or not on DSA approval list for 'Standard' test would still let you 'train' buyt test on one, and you would get a Full licence for 125 'Only', and I THINK, if test bike auto, auto restriction.

Moped; well, few do the tests on a moped; you only get licence to ride a moped from it, and most get that automatically with full bike or full car licence.

Snow White Queen wrote:

How much is bike insurance for a new rider?

EXPENSIVE...
OK, it all depends; bike, post code, age, whether the underwriter got laid the night before! Insurance is ALWAYS an unknown quantity.

All I can say is that, new riders and small bikes tend to be expensive, in comparison.

I have a 125, as well as a 750, and have had my licence a VERY long time! The 125 as its a 'Newbie Bike' is actually about 20% more expensive to insure for me than my 750.

Snowie, my O/H has 125, a more 'sensible' one; and her premium is about 20% higher than mine, because she's still on Provisional Licence..... Pricing up 'big-bikes' for when she's passed test, her 125 premium doesn't change, but price for a 500 is about 2/3 more than her 125... so where my 125 is more expensive to insure than a 'Big-Bike' as an aged crone, for her (and she's no spring chicken, regardless of what she tells you!), same post code, same security measures, etc; its other way round and big bike is more expensive to insure than 125.

Its a perverse market. BALL PARK...... 19 year old Lad, on 'sensible' 125, 'typical' post code, off-road parking, but minimal security, Third Party Fire & Theft cover, including commuting to get to college, about £3-400 a year.

Most Newbies tend to get quotes on that kind of region, and they wont drop much until you are over 25. Some, taking the commuting cover off, so they can only use bike to go out and 'play' on, pop round mates, that kind of thing, keep bike in a locked concrete or brick garage, and add some hefty security, can get it down closer to the £200 mark, but you would need a LOT of help, and be as old as methusela to get it close to the £100 a year mark.

Snow White Queen wrote:

Is there a good place to go to get a reasonably priced bike?

Loads..... BUT, if you want a Learner-Legal, few and far between!

Chinese bikes & Scooters look a bargain, but they tend to prove otherwise. New they are about 1/3 to 1/2 the price of Euro or Jap branded bike, but thier second hand value is nix, and they tend not to be very reliable, or even nice to ride.

Jap or Euro brand bikes, much more expensive; most expensive Learner legals now are nudging £5K, more typically, they are around the £3K mark. Couple of hundred either side you'd get regulation Learner-Commuter 125 like Yamaha YBR or Honda CBF fresh out the show room, with warranty and finance package. Buit it will loose a third of the sticker price moment you wheel it out the dealers door, and another third in its first three years to first MOT.... but it will hold pretty much that value for possibly the next three years until its obviousely rather tatty or worn out, when it will start falling again......

For VFM, that 'depreciation - plateau' is best place to buy; you can get a useful tidy YBR, my 'Bench-Mark' learner bike, from a dealer, four years old, with second MOT passed for about £1500..... they will try and rip you off on trade in if you take it back six months later.... and maybe only offer you £1000, BUT even THAT is less of a 'hit' than a Chinese bike you pay £800 for and have to give away, 'Spares or Repairs' after a year! Sell privately, or negotiate on the bike you are chopping in for, you need not loose too much on a bike like that. Buy private, sell private, you might not loose anything at all.

Second hand; and learner legal; I'm afraid its a VERY 'dodgy' market; there are far too many nieve and optimistic newbies with cash burning a hole in thier pocket, and folk hunting 'bargains', and not enough 'decent' bikes to go around.

Learner-Legals, are for obviouse reasons usually bought by Learners. They tend NOT to know how to ride very well, nor look after bikes brilliantly, and the bikes themselves are lightweights or limited performance and durability. They tend to live hard lives being thrashed, crashed, and trashed, by people that know no better, and as bikes that people dont often intend keeping, they resent paying much money for them, or spending any money on maintaining them; the 'pool' of second hand learner bikes is small, and there are more rotten apples in the barrel than fresh ones!

Not impossible to get a good bike, for sensible money, but the lower down the market you look, the smaller your field of search, less likely you'll get a great deal. Look up the price range, and that £1500 mark isn't far off, you stand much 'better' chance of finding better and more useful bike.

And remember; may be rough as a buyer; but once you have passed tests, you'll be a seller, and you can get most of your money back.

THEN you can go looking for a larger displacement machine; and THERE you are much more likely to find better bikes, for sensible money, because there are more bikes available than people qualified to ride them....
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'