These aren't the same!

[Poseidon]

Afternoon,

Just had a delivery of triumph OEM bits and pieces for the trident. Among the parts are three carb to head rubbers as the old ones were as brittle as glass and cracked when I removed the carbs.

I am a little concerned though as the new carb rubbers have a large moulded section inside the hole that the fuel air-mix travels down, whereas the old rubbers were just a straight through passage. I've double checked the part numbers etc and these are definitely the ones for my carbs/engine and they fit on like a glove, but the passage the fuel/air mix travels down is significantly smaller... I've attached a photo, the new rubber is on the right.

Anybody have any idea why they're so different? And if these are indeed the ones for my engine, which way up should the opening be?

Many thanks all
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[Pete.]

Opening at the bottom so air flows over the top of the emulsion tube but.....DAYUM - those are gonna flow like the bad aids
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Germ]

No printed info with the part when it came out?
Just wondered if it was a part that either fits other models also and some have smaller flow holes and you cut it out yourself to match your model?
Possibly a bad moulding and poor quality control ...the rubber bit in the middle is extrusion from a badly fitting mould?

Maybe a previous owner modified your old part to allow a higher flow rate of fuel/air ....maybe a performance mod?

[Poseidon]

I'm not cracking up then pete? My initial thought was that these are going to act like a restrictor surely?
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[Pete.]

Can't think of any good reason they would want to speed the air up through the rubber only to slow it down through the port again. Might give a bit better midrange I guess - why not fit them and see how it rides? Bit of a ball-ache if it's gutless having to strip them off but if you don't try it you'll never know what you're missing
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Poseidon]

[Poseidon]

[Kickstart]

Hi

To me they look like something designed to restrict flow (Yamaha did something similar with the UK spec FZR1000 EXUP to comply with the voluntary 125hp limit at the time).

My guess would be that they are 33hp inlets. Possible that Triumph just list one set of inlets for these older bikes and expect you to cut the web away for full power use.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Poseidon]

Definitely not cut to size keith... The moulded insert is hollow in places. It's difficult to explain so here's a photo of what I mean:
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[chris-red]

Go there and ask them.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Ouch. Se what you mean.

I would still go with them being for a restrictor, but designed so they can't be easily modified (Germany had a ~27hp insurance limit ages ago).

Had the packets been opened / resealed? Is the part number exactly the same?

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Germ]

What was it running like before you stripped it? Really rich and awful mpg? Were the plugs coked to hell and back?

[Pete.]

I would launch them out into the weeds and get some nice Japaneasy ones that fit.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Poseidon]

[Poseidon]

Well that solves that one then... The ones I have are froggy ones. It would appear that the frenchies have a restricted trident as standard. The rubbers I have restrict the engine to 27ps (whatever that means in old money!) I now have the correct part number for the new'uns!

I guess I'd better exchange these ones!

Thanks for all the help folks!

EDIT:
New ones will be in the post this afternoon! Sweet as...

Double Edit:
The correct ones are 5quid cheaper each, so there's 15squid coming back to me as well!
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[Poseidon]

Okie dokes... Last post from me on this matter.

I was wrong, they aren't french restrictors, they are swiss... I know this as on the invoice there is a small bit of the description which is missing on the online form... Rubber carb to head SWISS REST.

Just as an aside, the 27ps figure that the swiss rubbers restrict to is essentially 27bhp... Taken from wikipedia:

This unit (German: Pferdestärke = horse strength) is no longer a statutory unit, but is still commonly used in Europe, South America, Japan and India especially by the automotive and motorcycle industry. It was adopted throughout continental Europe with designations equivalent to the English horsepower, but mathematically different from the British unit.
DIN 66036 defines one horsepower to lift a mass of 75 kilograms within one second against the earth gravitation over a distance of one metre.[10] Similar definitions were already common to the time of James Watt.
The PS was adopted by the Deutsches Institut für Normung (DIN) and then by the automotive industry throughout most of Europe, under varying names. In 1992, the PS was rendered obsolete by EEC directives, when it was replaced by the kilowatt as the official power measuring unit.

I feel sorry for the swiss. I can't even begin to imagine what my bike would be like strangled down to 27horses. 250kg bike (with fluids) plus me makes 340kg, 90bhp as standard, how on earth would it even set off with just 27bhp???

Anyway, all done know. to keith for correctly identifying the restrictor and a funny to pete as the DAYUM statement makes me chuckle every time I read it!
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[Kickstart]

Hi

Possible the Swiss have a similar system to the Germans with 27ps versions for insurance purposes (from memory, Aprilia AF1s were quoted as having 27hp for the German market).

Also entirely possible it is just to get the bike through Swiss noise / emission tests. Forgotten how much power an early Swiss ZXR750 had but it was around 60hp while UK ones were over 100hp.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Pete.]

I bet they don't sell many of them then
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Poseidon]

Maybe I should've kept them so that if I ever come to sell the bike, I could fit them and advertise it as being 33bhp legal?
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[DrDonnyBrago]

[Germ]

[Poseidon]

[Poseidon]

Huzzah! Called triumph up yesterday at 2ish, new carb to head rubbers arrived today midday. Pretty good service that!

Anyway, here's a picture and I think you'll agree that these are the same part! new one is on the left:
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[Pete.]

Unlucky - those are the Chinese replicas that make the carbs fall off and set fire to the bike!

Actually, that might be a result for the old trumpet....
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Poseidon]

TPF&T... I can only hope! Insurance value is between £1500 and £1800... Almost enough to buy a decent bike!

(and they're oem ya bastard!)
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)