New test introduced for 2008

McJamweasel · BCF Junkie Joined: 22 Mar 2002 Karma :

I was speaking to my DAS instructor today, who happens to be chairman of the MRTA and he was telling me about the new test. They're introducing a small off road test to run alongside the current practical test and CBT.

It will be around 8 mins long and basically include the riding aspects of the CBT, but you need to pass it before moving onto the on-road test. It will be slow riding, slalom, figure of 8's as well as some faster (20mph measured with a radar gun) turns and will take the U-Turn and emergency stop away from the on-road test.

The DSA wants external examiners to do this, where as the MRTA are arguing that it should be left to the instructors. He argues that a 10 minute test on a car park can easily be absorbed into normal lessons and so not cost any extra (and be done as and when is convenient), where as if its left to the DSA not only will the learners be charged for it but it would have to be booked up in a similar fashion to the on-road test.

What are your views on this? I'll probably e-mail this link to Kevin Bryan (the guy I was speaking to) if any decent points are raised, he was saying that he's all for rider input.
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ZaphodBeeble · World Chat Champion Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Karma :

That's what happened when I did my CBT the other day. We did the emergency stop and U-turns before we were let out onto the road. I do think it should be compulsory though, as I don't expect that all places will be testing people in the same fashion. If there is a charge then I totally disagree as that will blatantly be another money spinner.
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McJamweasel · BCF Junkie Joined: 22 Mar 2002 Karma :

This will be as well as the CBT, and unlike the CBt will be assesed, rather than taught.

At present, the u-turn and emergency stop are included in the practical on-road test.
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Phoenix · Twisted Firestarter Joined: 01 Aug 2002 Karma :

Why are they scrapping emergency stops, in anticipation of bikes that do it for you? Confused

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

Hi

Cannot see it doing much good really. It should already be in the CBT, and otherwise it may as well be done as part of the main test in a car park.

Think they would be better off making the test more relevant to the real world.

All the best

Keith
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Ian (GPX) · Brolly Dolly Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Karma :

I don't see any harm in this as long as it's included in the current fee for the test (no increase in fee's), and it's done at the same time as the 'on the road test', all they got to do is make the test 50 mins instead of 35 - 40 mins.

Whats the point of having to book two tests (Practical), it just makes it more of a worry for the person taking the test.

As it is there are 3 tests, why add a 4th test ? Test 1 = CBT Test 2 = Theory and Test 3 = Practical.

Just out of interest, they going to do the same with car drivers ? Are they going to add a test to see how well a car driver is with vision and bikes (did they see me, did they see me ........... bang .. I guess not !).

CBT test covers the slow riding, slalom, figure of 8's as well as some faster turns and the U-Turn and emergency stop.

They could make the CBT test a little harder to complete, for example, when I did my CBT there was another young chap doing his CBT too with the same instructor I had. This young chap had never been on a bike before and was all over the place, he had no sense of balance, he had no control of the bike in any way and should not have even been on the road until he had completed some extra off road training / sessions, at the end of the day the instructor still passed the young chap even after 4 stalls and wrong signals when turning, not looking over shoulder before moving off or turning.

If I was an DSA Examiner and saw how bad he was and saw the instructor issue a CBT to him, I would have had the instructor back in the office and made him retake his instructors course or even had him struck off.

OK, I know you going to say the instructor was helping him by issuing the CBT, but on the other hand he was also letting someone on the road that would either kill himself or someone else, thats got to be bad in anyones book.

I would say that the CBT should be made harder to complete and done over two days with a test on day two and not 4 - 6 hours, if a person thats not up to a certain standard before the test then more training should be done. The test can be based on the real practical test, say a 20 - 30 minute test, which is based on points, get over a certain number of points and CBT Pass is issued.

The idea of having a real test for the CBT will give the person thats learning a 1st look at what the Practical Test is all about and the extra experience should help them for that test when it comes up.

Stew · Posted: 08:25 - 26 Feb 2004 Post subject:

I guess Zimma best hurry up and pass his test then. Razz

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Laura · Playboy Bunny Joined: 28 Jul 2003 Karma :

In my opinion a cbt is not enough training to allow a person safely on the road when I did my cbt and then went home on my scooter I nearly crashed. The other lady with me on the same day was riding some 125 cruiser thing and she only pulled off twice without stalling in the day.
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Hex · Party Boy Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

The CBT isn't a test though really, its a simple demonstration/bit of training to enable you to learn to ride a bike.

As for bringing in this extra test as it where, not really sure. As Keith said making the test more relevant to real road conditions would be more useful.
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Phoenix · Twisted Firestarter Joined: 01 Aug 2002 Karma :

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

Ste · Not Work Safe Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :

I agree that the CBT definatly isn't enough really for most people. At 16, after 1/2 a day wobbling around you can then go and ride on your own anywhere apart from motorways. Doesn't make much sense really Neutral

However, there should also be more emphasis on car drivers. You can pass your test, then get bought a fast car and go and write it off killing yourself and others. Pretty shitty really Sad

Being young and in a fast car is far more dangerous than being young and on a fast bike IMO.

Adding more to the bike test sounds like a reasonable idea. However the whole driving test system is a bit crap anyway. Drive or ride for 40 minutes then you're allowed to do whatever you want. Have a good day, and you're laughing. Not really a good guide to judging someones road safety and driving, but I don't have any better ideas Razz

(please don't change the driving test until I've done my driving test though. The roads will be a safer place with me and my 988cc Microbe Twisted Evil

)

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

Ste · Not Work Safe Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :

And the middle lane bandits!

People refusing to move into the inside lane when it's empty, and they'd rather sit at 60mph in the middle lane. Rolling Eyes

McJamweasel · BCF Junkie Joined: 22 Mar 2002 Karma :

As has been said, the CBT is simply a short training course and not a test. The new off road test would be an assessment based on this training.

The emergency stop and U-turn won't be removed from the test altogether, just moved from the road test to the off-road test. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

Incorporating the new section into the existing test is one of the options thats being considered, but it would mean that if (for example) they put a foot down in the figure of 8 they would fail completely and not be allowed out on the road portion of the test.
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T.C · World Chat Champion Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Karma :

In June of this a year a review of all motorcycle training commences. Everything from CBT to advanced, CBT instructors through to advanced examiners as well as the way the DSA themselves conduct tests will be looked at.

The committee that will carry out the review will be made up of people like myself, and representatives from the motorcycle industry including the trainers, and we will look at ways in which the whole training thing can be improved, and if that means taking certain elements out of the current system in order to produce better and safer riders, then so be it.

The original idea was to introduce the new test elements next year, but because it was considered unworkable for many of the smaller training organisations, and there is also the small subject of additional costs, it was put on hold until a workable system was put in place, but this may all go by the board depending on what the review produces.

The review will finish in June 2006, and it will probably take another 6 months for the report to go to the DSA and then a further 6 months for any changes or recommendations to be implemented, so nothing is confirmed as yet!
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Ian (GPX) · Brolly Dolly Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Karma :

Ian (GPX) · Brolly Dolly Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Karma :

T.C · World Chat Champion Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Karma :

McJamweasel · BCF Junkie Joined: 22 Mar 2002 Karma :

andrew · Mister Road Rage Joined: 03 Feb 2002 Karma :

I think it stinks, basically what is 'best' for everyone else is going to be decided by a select few, exactly the same way everything else in this country is. Middle Finger

Ian (GPX) · Brolly Dolly Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Karma :

andrew · Mister Road Rage Joined: 03 Feb 2002 Karma :

Of course it does, i happen to think that the U-Turn in a test is a waste of time, so what they do? Oh they're going to make you do it off road, whats the point in that? It's going to make it even more irrelevant on the real road.

T.C · World Chat Champion Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Karma :

andrew · Mister Road Rage Joined: 03 Feb 2002 Karma :

I don't mean any member of the public, i mean someone who has just passed their CBT or full test, a lot of examiners don't see people who have just passed their tests actually riding on the road when they're 'not' in a test environment. If they did then i'm sure they wouldn't pass them in the first place. People who have just passed their test would be good at giving advice on how to improve the tests because they would be best placed to tell you what skills they're lacking and how 'their' tests and instruction could be improved. IMO most of the DSA believe what they're teaching is FACT when in all honestly it's mostly bullshit. I mean how can someone be deemed safe on the roads because they rode well for 30 minutes? The whole test system stinks and your committee are hardly going to make so many changes that tests are throwing out safe riders at the other end. If after all your 'discussion' the new and 'improved' tests are chucking out safer riders then i will apoligise but to be honest i can't see it making much difference to accident rates. How about the government make changes to how the car tests are done?