Help please... I've ballsed-up fitting my ground anchor :(

[Jamey]

I picked up the new bike today and first thing I did when I got home was start installing the Hardie ground anchor.

After ages spent drilling the hole into the concrete (went through three drills, did a 10mm pilot hole first, then the main 20mm hole) it had gotten dark and I was fed up and tired.

Not the best situation for this type of work and I freely admit that everything from this point onwards is my stupidity but I'd still appreciate your help.

So, the hole's drilled... I put the expanding sleeve into the hole, then put the spacer on top and tap it with a hammer until it's flush with the ground.

Then I got the bolt and go to test that it's screwing in ok... It isn't... No matter how much I try I can't catch the thread into the grooves, it's just spinning.

I get a torch (it's dark) and peer into the hole. It looks like the expanding sleeve is quite a bit below the spacer and also it doesn't look straight.

Everything after this point is basically two hours of me swearing, trying to catch the thread, trying to yank out the spacer with pliers (it's completely stuck, not coming out) and generally getting more and more despondent.

I'm feeling pretty stupid and low right now so I'm hoping someone can offer a ray of sunshine tbh.

I have no idea what to do tomorrow. For tonight I've just chained through the rear wheel and put the disc lock on the front and a rain cover over it so I hope it will be ok for one night.

I've had a quick look at Screwfix's website but can't see any similar 20mm security bolts / sleeves on there. I did wonder if a chemical bolt might work but again can't see anything suitable online anywhere.

I could maybe buy a replacement bolt and sleeve fron Hardie but (a) I'll have to drill a new hole which will take hours again and (b) I doubt they're open until Monday and then it will be mail order, so I'd still prefer to get this sorted tomorrow if anyone can think of a way for me to fix my stupid mistake.

Thank you for reading.

[J4mes]

Screwfix do a chemical anchor, I use it with threaded rod for securing safes to walls. It's worth a go, but firstly I would go back out in the morning when you have had time to relax and replenish and then spend some time trying to either get the original out or get the bolt screwed in.

We have a rule at work - if it's all going tits up, if nothing is working, stop. Have a cup of tea, read the paper for 10 minutes and then go back to it, calm, with a fresh head. You'd be amazed at how often this helps, as sometimes you get so fixated on one course of action that your mind dismisses anything else and you get no fresh ideas

[swiftb]

One of the unique attributes of the Hardie-Secure Ground Anchor is that it folds flat when not in use, enabling it to be driven over safely.

It can also be wall mounted, making it universally versatile for the use of motorcycles, push bikes, scooters, caravans, trailers, lawn mowers, power tools, in fact the list is endless!

The Hardie-Secure Ground Anchor comes with a single bolt fixing which means it can be fitted quickly and easily ( approx 15 mins ). With all the fixings included, all you need is an electric drill.
The incredibly tight tolerances and unique curved surfacing ensure no gaps to lever against. The clever swivelling action ensures that all hammer blow action is dissipated into the ground.

- Simple DIY Installation
- Single Bolt Fixing
- Drill Bit and fixings included
- Floor or Wall mounted.
- Folds Flat when not in use.
- Virtually Indistructible
- Chrome Plated or Stainless Steel avaliable.



The Large Ground Anchor Specifications are :
Overall Diameter : 150mm
Chain Aperture : 45mm
Depth : 20mm
Can withstand over 8 tonnes of force
RRP £49.99





Sounds like you had a bit of a nightmare there old chap! Not exactly certain what you managed to do but if its how i think it is you could drill around it to free it up (break up the concrete around it)
once you have it out you could either use some fast setting concrete and set it in the original hole after checking it bolts up correctly, or fill the hole in and drill a fresh one. Its all about the tools chief - my sds would batter a 20mm hole out in about 15seconds - if your tickling it with a shat drill then I can understand your lack of passion for drilling it out and drilling another hole! hire/borrow a 24/36volt sds drill if need be. good luck (best get up early tommorow- it gets dark around 5.30pm these days )

[firefox]

so what you have done is when hammering the coach bolt into the ground you have shocked the bottom part that pulls up to lock the bolt in place and its fell out, done it loads of times at work, try putting a screw driver in and snapping the outer casing then pulling it out bit by bit normally works.
____________________
bye bye gti <^>( ' . ' )<^>
*officer* what caused the crash ? *firefox* you see that wall up there sir ?
*officer* yes what about it *firefox* i tooted my horn but it refused to move i had to teach it a lesson.

[Jamey]

When I was drilling the holes I went through the bottom of the concrete into the earth, so I know the hole goes all the way through.

If I can hammer the sleeve part down far enough for the head of the bolt to sit flush in the anchor, then I can just fill the hole with a resin and leave the whole lot to set in that, can't I?

Which one of these resins would be suitable?
https://www.screwfix.com/c/screws-nails-fixings/resins/cat840122

[firefox]

my personal advice would be a new hole, fill the old ones in and be more careful, if you need ground anchors i can send you a few.
____________________
bye bye gti <^>( ' . ' )<^>
*officer* what caused the crash ? *firefox* you see that wall up there sir ?
*officer* yes what about it *firefox* i tooted my horn but it refused to move i had to teach it a lesson.

[Ichy]

Any idea on the actual thread size of the bolt? B&Q do a range of threaded rod up to 12mm diameter and 1m long for £3.50ish.

My thought would be to get one of these bars (if it fitted) and use it to get the threaded end of the security nut to pull up into the expanding sleeve, moving it upwards and locking it into position. You can then give the original bolt another go.


Does that make sense?
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[firefox]

[Jamey]

The bolt / sleeve that came with the Hardie were 20mm wide by 100mm long - I can't see anything online the same dimensions.

Drilling a new hole isn't out of the question but I still can't get my hands on a replacement bolt and sleeve until probably Tuesday at the earliest, which is why I was asking about the resin.

[Ichy]

Open on Sunday
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[SirToU]

[G]

How about getting some threaded rod, which'll go down deeper.

You can then use a nut ontop and cut the top off.
Or just buy a longer bolt?

Marki:
I thought M10 would about 16mm? Might be wrong.
And [edit] - see you've already suggested the threaded rod.

[Marmalade]

Get a longer bolt with the same thread to put down the hole and screw into the threaded wedge bit and lift it up to where it needs to be, once it starts getting stuck into the expanding bits you should be able to remove the long bolt and use the original intended bolts.

Do it in the morning before it drives you insane.
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Nobby the Bastard: How yo tell the difference between the actual japanese and her just screaming because she's had live fish stuck up her arse? [url=https://www.nicks-shop.co.uk/bcf-goodies-15-c.aspGet BCF stickers and things here[/url] Reflective helmet stickers - Legal requirement in france - Clicky

[Ichy]

[firefox]

[Raffles]

[stinkwheel]

I'd also suggest getting a longer bolt just to pull the bottom part of the fitting up.

Failing that, drill new holes or get the old sleeves out and use normal rowl-bolts available from any hardware shop. B&Q do them as Marki showed. Nothing short of heavy plant is going to shift a couple of M10 rowl bolts once they've got a hold. The concrete will fail first.

You don't need special security bolts. Just use a normal high tensile allen head bolt. Once they're all torqued down, either hammer a ball bearing into the hole on the allen head or drill it out round using a drill slightly larger than the allen key. Nobody is getting that undone again. You may even be able to get a slightly longer allen head bolt down your current fixings. If you're through to the earth underneath, it doesn't matter how far down they go. You'll get some at screwfix.

Another way is to use the type with a threaded rod sticking up from them. Take one nut and file/grind the points off in a vice it so it's round. Screw that down by hand and screw another unmolested nut down on top of it. Tighten everything down, remove the top nut and cut off the end of the threaded rod flush with the top of the round nut.

Drill a slightly bigger hole next time, you shouldn't need to hammer them in.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[G]

I did meant the sleeve - the M10 presumably uses a M10 thread - which I'm guessing would then be about 16mm around the sleeve.

Oh and for the OP - were you definitely using Masonry bits? Did you have a hammer action drill? While it may take a bit of time, to do a single hole, shouldn't be a massive issue.

[Jamey]

I used the drill bit that Hardie supply with the anchor kit.

The drill bit only went through right at the end so I know I have about 100mm of concrete.

But most importantly, I don't think it's the bottom part that's skew-whiff... When I look down the hole it looks more like the top that's at a funny angle.

Obviously I'll take the bolt round the local shops here tomorrow but a longer bolt with the same thread isn't going to be the answer if it's the top of the sleeve that's obstructing things. And a new sleeve is no use as even if I can hammer the sleeve down the spacer is definitely not going anywhere.

So is it fundamentally pointless to bother with the resin route at all, then? I thought chemical bolts were strong?

[stinkwheel]

[Jamey]

I didn't break the drills. I just tried three different ones (one of which was pretty heavy-duty looking). All hammer.

I'm pretty sure I kept hitting stones as there were times when the drill made quite fast progress and times when it just seemed to stay still for 20 mins.

[G]

I think maybe he means different actual drills or something?
I wrote more about broken bits then removed it after re-reading.

For the OP:
The top of these bolts is less of an issue if you can get the thread down there - the nut spreads out the bottom, which is what makes it grip. The top's probably got messed up with you trying to get it out.

[Raffles]

[G]

I've done fine on plenty of 16mm holes with normal drills - and he used a bit that came with his anchor, so hopefully ok.

Have got a 5kg SDS now and it does eat through stuff that would take a bit of time with my black and decker 'normal' drill.

And yes - it may well have been hitting bigger stones - this is where a decent SDS does make a bit of difference as it can properly hammer them.

[Ichy]