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rac3r
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 17 Oct 2011    Post subject: CRT Teams Reply with quote

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/10/15/the_coming_revolution_8_crt_entries_in_m.html

I think CRT teams will overtake MotoGP, not literally on the track but in terms of entertainment and action much like Moto2

I think they need to build up MotoGP as a whole a lot more to a level similar to F1 in terms of glamour etc. Go to some decent tracks like Spa

Next year should be interesting
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Al
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PostPosted: 17:40 - 17 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

There will probably be some great battles between the CRT riders, but we will probably hardly get to see any of them as we will be watching footage of the same old riders at the front with 6 second gaps between each rider. Maybe they should let us choose to watch the CRT race on the red button or something.
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rac3r
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PostPosted: 22:25 - 17 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

No more Moto GP testing limits

https://www.bikesportnews.com/news-detail.cfm?newstitle=Rossi-welcomes-proposed-changes-to-MotoGP-test-rules&newsid=5902&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bikesportnews+%28Bike+Sport+News+RSS+Feed%29
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 23:28 - 17 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

They have yet to clarify (that I know of) whether or not CRT teams can claim engines/parts of a bike from Factory teams, if they don't disallow this it will ruin the bloody thing, claiming a stupidly fast factory engine with more fuel etc would be silly.

Very much looking forward to next year's MotoGP, they put out around 220bhp in 800cc trim, I imagine the 1000cc machines will be putting out ~260-270bhp and will be rocket ships down the straights.

I think the CRT teams will be great, the main reason as far as I know for going to CRT & Factory regulations is because the factories were asking STUPID money to give bikes/motors to teams, the Japanese manufacturers wouldn't even give motors to teams, they would only lease whole bikes which costs a fortune, this is the reason Aspar are not racing Ducatis next year, they just couldn't come to a decent contract price with Ducati for bikes.

The one thing I wish they would do with MotoGP is remove the electronic aids, MotoGP Traction control is crazy good, if you watch the on-screen diagrams of their throttle/brake usage, even in second gear at a lean angle of 45 degrees they are already at full throttle, that is crazy even with super-sticky tyres, 220bhp is a lot of power and they have decent torque too.

Anti-wheelie control, more of the same, use as much power as you want without fear of flipping it, launch control, unless you mess up the clutch all the launches are going to be the same pretty much.

Yamaha also told people that the electronics on their M1 MotoGP Race Bike, the on-board computers are CONSTANTLY running simulations for the next 2/3 laps or so based on current speed, lean angles, throttle/brake usage and various other things to let the teams know whether or not the rider is going to ruin the tyre in the next few laps and to back off the throttle a bit, it is insanity.

I know that it still requires a lot of skill to pilot a MotoGP machine, but the same is true for an F1 car and since they removed electronics it has become much better to watch, I imagine MotoGP would be the same and yes I know, if you mess up in a car you oversteer or understeer or have a bit of a moment, but that is what top-level racing should be, hard as hard can be and a spectacle to watch, which MotoGP filled with electronics just, isn't.

All the new rules will do is lower the dominance of factory teams a little bit and lower lap times a little bit.

(As a side note, I am okay with things like quickshifters, as they are the motorcycle equivalent of semi-automatic boxes, but actual aids such as TCS, ABS, AWC, LC etc.).
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 08:00 - 18 Oct 2011    Post subject: Re: CRT Teams Reply with quote

rac3r wrote:

I think they need to build up MotoGP as a whole a lot more to a level similar to F1 in terms of glamour etc. Go to some decent tracks like Spa


That's the exact opposite of what they need to do IMO.

The last thing moto gp is an army of pseudo cool hangers on. Would be good to see them return to Spa, but they'll probably go to some new money place like India before they go back to Spa.

Go back to the good old days of Transit vans and letting the average joe get near the pitlane/paddock.
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Last edited by Wafer_Thin_Ham on 08:15 - 18 Oct 2011; edited 1 time in total
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carlosthejack...
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PostPosted: 08:09 - 18 Oct 2011    Post subject: Re: CRT Teams Reply with quote

Big_Ham wrote:
rac3r wrote:

I think they need to build up MotoGP as a whole a lot more to a level similar to F1 in terms of glamour etc. Go to some decent tracks like Spa


That's the exact opposite of what they need to do IMO.

The last thing moto gp is an army of pseudo cool hangers on. Would be good to see them return to Spa, but they'll probably go to some new money place like India before they go back to Spa.

Go back to the good old days of Transit fans and letting the average joe get near the pitlane/paddock.


Indeed, and that's still the way with British Superbikes. BSB paddocks are awesome, the atmosphere friendly and down to earth, tickets cheap and the racing pretty much guaranteed to be incredible every weekend. Forget the big money prima-donna's of MotoGP (Moto2 is where it's at racing wise anyway), support BSB and get down to you nearest track next summer. If you've never been I guarantee you you won't be disappointed.
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robbieguy2003
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PostPosted: 08:46 - 18 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Indeed, and that's still the way with British Superbikes. BSB paddocks are awesome, the atmosphere friendly and down to earth, tickets cheap and the racing pretty much guaranteed to be incredible every weekend. Forget the big money prima-donna's of MotoGP (Moto2 is where it's at racing wise anyway), support BSB and get down to you nearest track next summer. If you've never been I guarantee you you won't be disappointed.


Been to Silverstone GP, Donny BSB and Brands BSB (final) this year. All have been excellent and different in ways. The GP bikes are worth seeing, the noise they make is amazing and it doesn't matter what speakers you've bought, unless you hear them it doesn't hit home how loud they are. Watching the cornering and lean angles is stunning as well. For a technical viewing GP is worth it, and Moto2 gives you some proper packed racing.

However... for out and viewing fun, BSB absolutely rocks. You get so much more stuff going round with Supersport, Superstock 600/1000 etc.. Donny had sidecar racing as well. The queues aren't as big and stuffs easier to get to.

Both are cracking for different reasons. If I do a MotoGP next year though it'll be Assen or Brno as Silverstone is a proper pain in the arse to get around, it's massive!

On the subject though... I reckon the CRT teams will be lagging around with the slower satellite bikes. My guess is a GP Satellite team struggling with setup might get hit by a really good well setup CRT team, which should be fun, but i'm not sure how often it'll happen.

It can only be a good thing having more bikes on the grid, even if they are seperated out, it'll give different 'battles' -i.e. 2nd 3rd 4th, 7th, 8th, 9th etc.

I think the testing regulations is sensible. I know it was for cost cutting and the restricted testing was less than great but ok for 800cc 2010 to 800cc 2011. Going from 800cc 2011 > 1000cc 2012 needs quite a bit more in my opinion. Many teams might want to test a few concepts, then pick a direction, then develop it, then figure out base qualy/race setups etc. That takes more than 8 day long tests with a few winter tests.

I do wonder for next season though.. Honda and Yamaha dont appear to be changing dramatically and i think it's because what they have works reasonably well. The big interests for me are Ducati and Suzuki. I reckon the real GP12 will be sod all like the one going around now. The latest rumour is a change of engine - at least to change it from an L to a traditional V and put it in a new chassis. Out of all, they need the test time. The other interest is Suzuki. If they stay in then they need to come up with a 1000 quite quickly - they cant use serial parts so it's not like they can severely trick a GSX-R 1000 design, change the lot for really trick - money no object bits - and make an IL4. So will they stick with the V4 and change the pots to 250 rather than 200cc? Who will be riding for them? Will it be Alvro and Hopper or will hopper go to LCR?

I hope Suzuku stay in otherwise it'll turn into a 2 and a half horse race (unless ducati sort themselves out). I think next year will be cool and who knows, if that S1000RR engine goes in the Suter and a ZX-10 or RSV4 motor ends up in something else then maybe BMW/Kawa/Aprilia might make a return in 2013... That'd make things more interesting.

Both the RSV4 and the S1000RR were 'apparantly' born as GP Projects that got scrapped because of the regs changes. Perhaps the lessons learned could build some cool GP bikes.

Either way, as much as i like the technical aspect of GP/best riders/crazy lean angles etc, I still have to watch WSBK and BSB to get a fix of racing. Until the grid size gets a bit better, it'll continue to not be as great as it once was.
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G
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PostPosted: 09:29 - 18 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking the lessons learnt might build some cool road bikes Very Happy.

Can see say crescent considering building up a 'package', which could then be sold on as near-motogp engine upgrade to a stock GSXR say.

As it probably won't cost THAT much to make some more frames etc, could also be good business in that - especially if you do well, win the class, or some races etc - make a handful more frames to go with the BMW engine; get some bit-cheaper suspension and other ancillaries and sell it as a silly-quick track (or even road) bike.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 09:32 - 18 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:


As it probably won't cost THAT much to make some more frames etc, could also be good business in that - especially if you do well, win the class, or some races etc - make a handful more frames to go with the BMW engine; get some bit-cheaper suspension and other ancillaries and sell it as a silly-quick track (or even road) bike.


TBF I'd love to see FTR or Harris put a stock ish CBR600RR engine into their moto 2 frames and knock a couple out for road use.

Or even some of eccentric and rich to road reg a few.
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c-m
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PostPosted: 09:35 - 18 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole motogp show and coverage is miles behind F1 in terms of it's polish, and it's not all down to money.

The BBC production is shocking. I can often hear wind noise during the presentations, the commentators sound like they are on radio. They often cut to presenters/reports who aren't even there or ready for them.

The racing down the grid has been ok-ish but the series suffers from a lack of numbers.

I dislike the lack of radio comms. I think it would be great for the teams to be able to communicate with the rider and for us to hear that.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 09:41 - 18 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

c-m wrote:
I dislike the lack of radio comms. I think it would be great for the teams to be able to communicate with the rider and for us to hear that.


What and hear Stoner moaning even more? Pass.
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Dr. DaveJPS
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PostPosted: 09:46 - 18 Oct 2011    Post subject: Re: CRT Teams Reply with quote

Big_Ham wrote:

Go back to the good old days of Transit vans and letting the average joe get near the pitlane/paddock.


Road racing is still very much like that. If you prebook for olivers mount you can get paddock access with your ticket.

(though i wouldn't call the tickets cheap (£25), but you are so much closer to the action)
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G
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PostPosted: 10:33 - 18 Oct 2011    Post subject: Re: CRT Teams Reply with quote

You get 'paddock access' with all club racing and I doubt tickets are over £15.

Oh and you can see communications to the rider via the pit boards Smile.
I think it's nice that they aren't being told what to do minute by minute by someone sitting behind a load of monitors - F1 is becoming more and more a playstation game (thinking KERS, DRS or whatever they are).
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G
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 18 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Ham wrote:

TBF I'd love to see FTR or Harris put a stock ish CBR600RR engine into their moto 2 frames and knock a couple out for road use.

Or even some of eccentric and rich to road reg a few.

Now to knock my own point - I was thinking lightness. But actually, the frame in a modern bikes contributes very little to the weight in my experience.

However, I would presume moto2 are also a chunk more compact. Think I'd still a 250gp bike to have a play with, though Smile.
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robbieguy2003
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 18 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Can see say crescent considering building up a 'package', which could then be sold on as near-motogp engine upgrade to a stock GSXR say.


That'd be awesome, and there are people out there willing to buy these bikes, just look at the Desmo RR. While £40k is a lot for a bike, it's not for a car, and there are people out there who can spend £40k on a bike.

It'd be good marketing for the stock bike and it'd let them sell something special to the minted few while doing the brand good. I'd love to see Crescent knock something like that out.

Quote:
F1 is becoming more and more a playstation game (thinking KERS, DRS or whatever they are).


Agreed, how you can turn ABS/TCS off then say if you're within a second of someone you get 'extra power'. It's not Ridge Racer FFS...

Quote:
You get 'paddock access' with all club racing and I doubt tickets are over £15.


Both BSB rounds i've been too this year had Paddock access with standard £25 tickets. Although at Donny I was Hospitality so stood drooling over hoppers bike for a bit. I liked the fuel tank mostly being under the seat, the actual tank being used to partly house a bigger airbox and the best bit.... the small electric fan heaters pointed at the oil sumps Laughing
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 18:03 - 18 Oct 2011    Post subject: Re: CRT Teams Reply with quote

Dr. DaveJPS wrote:
Big_Ham wrote:

Go back to the good old days of Transit vans and letting the average joe get near the pitlane/paddock.


Road racing is still very much like that. If you prebook for olivers mount you can get paddock access with your ticket.

(though i wouldn't call the tickets cheap (£25), but you are so much closer to the action)


Was going to go this year, but I was working. Crying or Very sad

My mission to get to some road racing events this year.

Go to club races as and when I'm free. Usually a decent day out. Proper racing. Thumbs Up
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