New rider question- Traffic

[DaveS]

I took my CBT on sunday and am now looking for a bike.
The course was quite good and I feel confident enough to ride on the road now, however the course did not cover traffic.
On the road riding part we were always told to stay in the centre of the road and 'take command of the lane', and the same seemed to apply in traffic.

I am curious as to whether it is legal to filter through traffic and if so how to do it, for example where to place yourself at the front of the queue? Can you cross the white line or do you have to stay on the right of the car and race it off the lights?
How do you split traffic if you cant get to the front?

Sorry to experienced riders as i'm sure this is a silly question

..DaveS

[carvell]

Yes it's legal to filter, it's simply overtaking.

Try to avoid riding down the white line, as it gets slippery.

What I do is drive slow-ish down the middle of the traffic, in the far right or left of a lane, trying not to clip someones mirror off. When I get to the lights I sit myself just infront of all of the cars, and then zoom off when it's amber whilst looking to make sure noone on the other side has jumped the lights.

Make sure you look for indicators and the position of peoples tyres to see if they are going to drive into you. If you get to a gap you can't squeeze through (I've not found one of these yet!) then just sit tight and when the traffic starts to move, go across the lane and filter down the other side. You will usually find that you can get through though.

You will find that some cars will be helpful and move over for you. Give them a wave and they'll do it again next time they see you.

Hope this helps!
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Yamaha TDM 850

[McJamweasel]

Legally its a bit of a grey area. Its not specifically illegal (indeed, I've filtered past cops on more than one occaision, and even have them move over for me), but you could be done for dangerous driving.

I do filter (as most other bikers do) although not very fast. I won't filter at more than 30mph - and no more than about 15mph past stationary traffic. I also tend not to do it on the approach to roundabouts.

You need to be VERY wary around junctions, look for gaps in traffic where cars can emerge. Try and keep an eye on drivers heads to see if they're looking round prior to pulling out. They won't always indicate.

As for getting to the front - generally I stay at the side of the first car and just get away before them. If you do have a slower bike (4 stroke 125) then it may be better for you to pull in front of the first car, depending on if its safe at that particular junction. Although this is technically illegal.
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BCF: Be yourself, just don't be an arse.

[G]

If you are going around the outside of traffic then it's just overtaking. Of course if there's traffic coming the other way then it starts to get a bit dodgy.
Technically I believe traffic going under 10mph or something is considered to be 'parked' so you can filter through it ok

I never used to filter when I first got a bike because there wasn't really anywhere that required it (no dual lane roads in deep dark Essex :-\).. and it was only a cg125 .
Got to the point I was doing it a lot, but you do need to be very careful and make sure you know as best as possible what every car is going to do etc.
After a bit of a 'reality' I tend to not filter above motorway limits now .

I tend to pull in front of cars at junctions... this means other bikes have space to get out. While it's not a prob if you're the only bike there, it's not so nice with a bike behind you: they need to get ahead of the traffic as well, but don't know how fast you're going to pull away and don't want to get stuck between two cars.
It is technically illegal, but a police-person would have to be in a really bad mood to do you for it.

beware also that I believe there is a legal precedent set that means that the blame will be split 50/50 in cases where a bike is filtering: this often is true when the biker is not at fault at all as well.

[ZaphodBeeble]

Another thing about overtaking and filtering is when there are double solid lines, ie. no overtaking allowed. You can legally overtake something in this case if the vehicle is going 15mph or less. I was told this by my CBT instructor who was a bike copper. He also told me that it was completely legal to filter.
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Current bike: VTR1000F Firestorm. Previous: Firestorm (written off) - XJ600 Divvy - NSR125 - DT125 and a load of offroaders.

[CBRPaul]

these are the words from a Judge in a case where a biker was knocked off while filtering :

"by riding your motorcycle in between traffic , you are creating a 3rd lane , it is your responsibilty to be aware and take the action needed to guard against any other road users from entering that lane you created ."

Its a very very grey area guys , and to be honest the law is not on the motorcyclists side by any means

oh dont even think about how you would stand if a person steps out infront of you and you hit them ,
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HONDA CBR600 F W

[ZaphodBeeble]

Yeah my instructor did say that you should be VERY aware at all times but this has been covered by carvell, McJam and G.
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Current bike: VTR1000F Firestorm. Previous: Firestorm (written off) - XJ600 Divvy - NSR125 - DT125 and a load of offroaders.

[DaveS]

Didn't realise it was such a big issue! Thought i'd get a reply like
"yeah you can filter.. its fine"

..Dave

[carvell]

[Ian (GPX)]

Most of the Motorcycle Instructors (DAS Instructors) in London will teach you how to filter safely in London. They will tell you and show you how to correctly filter between traffic (middle of two lanes) and on the outside lane.

Some Motorcycle examiners will not let you filter in your Practical Test, so be aware of it. You can ask the examiner on the day of your test if you can filter if needed in the test, just make sure you don't put yourself or anyone else in danger when you do it, but as a rule most do not like you to filter when doing your test.

Guidance from DAS Instructors that I have been with over the last week or so on this subject -- You should not travel over 30mph (or whatever the speed limit is) when filtering passed moving traffic, and you should not be doing more than 20mph in stationary traffic, as for filtering between two lanes of traffic (going the same way), your speed should be between 15mph and 25mph, you have to be ready for the prat thats going to pull over on you, or open their door without looking first.

[Sparks!]

I tend to ride down center of the lanes and get just in front of the first car and to it's side then leave it off the lights relatively quicker than the car.

What really gets me, is 8/10 twats in this situation try to race me off the lights? But the thing is I park myself just by their wing so if I don't floor it then they'll knock me off.

I don't understand why people do it?

How stupid can some people be though? Jealous of a bike getting in front of them and the bike will always leave the line so quickly that it won't slow the car down anyway, yet they still attempt dangerous attempts at getting away from the lights before you, despite you being in front of them.

Just take it easy and keep your eyes open. It's nice to follow other bikes if they are filtering too as it gives you an idea of what you should and shouldn't do etc (obviously not neccesarily the correct way, but it's a confidence booster anyway I find)

Plan well ahead too so you can be in position ready to filter safely, smoothly and quickly. Keep an eye for lights changing which can sometimes leave you in a dodgy position trying to get back into traffic.
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Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes

[M1ke]

I was following a scooter whilst filtering once, he was going rather fast whilst filtering past a big bus (which you cant see over) anyway some girl was crossing the road in front of the bus which the scooter rider didn't see.

The scooter VERY nearly ran the girl over as she steped out from the front of the bus.

Since then I slow down to about 5mph when going past something I can't see clearly over.

[T.C]

It is perfectly legal to filter providing certain conditions are complied with, namely.

The filtering (overtaking) does not entail straddling or crossing over a solid centre white line system.

It is not done after a No Overtaking sign.

No other vehicle is required to alter course or speed.

And you must be aware of the potential for other vehicles turning right across your path travelling in the same or opposite directions.

A lot of courts are now finding in favour of filtering motorcyclists providing those conditions are complied with. Although many insurers will still argue the case of Powell v Moody (1966) which found the motorcyclist to be 80% at fault, that changed in the seventies more to a 50/50, and more recently it has been more a case of 80/20 in favour of the rider and in some cases 100% in favour of the rider depending on circumstances.

An instruction has recently gone out from the lord Chancellors office to the Courts, solicitors and insurers that case law is not always to be relied on in these cases, it is to be used simply as a guide or a starting point and each case must be judged on merit not because some case from 1966 said otherwise bearing in mind that traffic has changed considerably over the past 40 years.
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It is better to arrive 30 seconds late in this world, than 30 years early in the next

[AcIdBuRnZ]

AFAIK, as long as it is safe to do so, that you are riding safely and in a controlled manner, then filtering is fine. eg. doing 70+ past a traffic queue would more then likely be seen as dangerous driving.

My instructor says its best to filter only when there are 2 or 3 cars infront of you, as this way you can see right to the front of the queue, and there is more chance of the car driver's spotting you.

However, if you are late for work, then that's another matter entirely

Mark
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Past: Honda NSR125R >> Kawasaki ER-5a2 >> Kawasaki ZZR-600e1 >> Suzuki GSXR-750Y >> Honda VTR 1000 Firestorm
"Chickity China the Chinese Chicken..."

[Milo]

It's legal to filter but you may find it's confusing with all the very valid points being mentioned above.
You could take the other approach and sit with the traffic and watch out other bikes and cars and see how they behave in traffic. Do this until you feel confident enough yourself and when you do, be sure you're not going to have to embarrassingly switch to reserve in front of a queue of traffic!

This way you'll see for yourself rather than having your head filled with all of the above. Biking isn't meant to be stressful or confusing and after a while it will all become first nature so you won't think about it.

Don't do what most mopeds do though, as I've found the majority are dangerous in the traffic and make filtering more dangerous for you. This is only my opinion, and it's definitely true for my journey to work.

Good luck with it all and welcome to one-wheeled fun!

Adam
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Shaft drives rule.

[dainesefreak]

Dave - After reading the other posts you'll obviously see that most riders filter on a daily basis. IMO, as you are new to the riding thing I would suggest you wait and get some road sense and road craft under your belt first. It can be one of the fastest ways to wreck your bike and end up in hospital if it all goes wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that bikers shouldn't filter, I filter every day. I'm just saying that as a new rider I would take it easy for a while first.

[Danny]

Can anyone confirm what ZaphodBeeble said about filtering over double white lines?

Also as people have said make room for other bikers at the front of lights. In London it is customary to go past the stop line and wait in the push bike starting bit. Which is essentially running a red light, but London police don't seem to mind, don't know about other police forces though.

[dainesefreak]

Double continuous lines prohibit overtaking except when:-

turning into a side road;

turning into premises;

passing a stationary vehicle;

overtaking a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle travelling at 10 mph or less.

Taken from Warwickshire County Council website.

[priller]

[dainesefreak]

There's been a few times when I've merrily filtered to the front of a line of traffic at the lights on a 125, only to get to the front and find out it's a Porsche or similar sitting there. F*ck!

I just cut and pasted the info off the site, it doesn't really say any more than stationary vehicle. I suppose that could be interpreted as parked or stopped with the driver in it.

[Major_Grooves]

I'm interested to know if you can cross the double solid lines to overtake a line of stationary (queueing) traffic. I mentioned in another thread that I take a short cut through a closed road each day. This is to avoid a long road which always has queues on it and is double solid lines all the way. The couple of times I have been forced to use it I have had to sit in traffic with the cars while the road is clear on the other side.

T.C. - can you clear this up?
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[Ste]

[G1_]

As some people have said try watching other riders in traffic. I would also point out that it is dangerous to follow someone else blindly. Ride for yourself and all that.
If your following someone else that is more experienced I imagine that most beginers (inc myself) would not feel confident riding at the same speed/pace as them.
In other words be careful when following someone else.

[T.C]

[Major_Grooves]