Trackside Incidents

[Hyaon]

Further to Nixon saying he would explain how things are done regarding crashes, red flags etc I thought it'd be worth starting this topic. Obviously Marco's death is what is on my mind at the moment and brought out a lot of questions regarding the marshals/medics.

To my knowledge, only medical professions should move anyone with neck, back, head injuries. They must be fixed onto the stretcher securely to prevent any further movement and harm. I basically saw Marco bouncing up and down with his leg dangling off, which I'd thought puts stress on his spine up to his neck and head.

Even simple first aid says
"Hold the person's head and neck in the position in which they were found.
DO NOT attempt to reposition the neck.
Do not allow the neck to bend or twist."
"DO NOT bend, twist, or lift the person's head or body. "

Everything in that I saw the marshals/medics do the opposite of when handling Marco.

It's said he was in danger remaining trackside, if this is regarding other racers coming his way, wasnt the race shut down? Didnt they all stop? I thought that was the point of a red flag.

When an ambulance arrived for me after my crash, I was already home and walking around fine but they were concerned any injuries I had internally was down to the adrenaline, they absolutely refused to let me walk to the ambulance and I was secured into the stretcher onto it and off it, through to the hospital bed all at a steady speed...

Comparing that to Marco's treatment I guess made me angry. Hope my questions can be answered or bring up some insight into this rather horrible part of motorsport we'd rather not see.
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[Quornholio]

I didn't see how he was treated, but it can't be any worse than how Tomizawa was dealt with last year. It's easy to say "this, this and this is how you should act", but when bad things happen, panic can set in.

[Al]

The only footage I've seen is that youtube clip where it doesn't look like the most professional operation, but would have thought if he was not breathing or losing lots of blood then time would be of the essence and that would take priority over neck and back injuries. Perhaps they were just trying to get him out of public view as they knew there was nothing they could do for him.

I don't really blame the guy for tripping over it was clearly just an accident.
I do blame the marshals for ending what was sure to be a sizzling end to the moto2 championship though as now it looks like Marquez won't even be taking part.
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[The Artist]

I am pretty sure in certain circumstances, there are actually priorities over not moving the spine/neck. Inexperienced marshals may have difficulty determining what these are may be a problem though.

[weasley]

The first rule of first aid is to make sure the patient is out of danger. If this means moving their spine to prevent them dying, you do it.

I'm not saying what happened was right or wrong, but be clear that immobilising the spine is not the be all and end all of first aid - important but not overriding.
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[Quornholio]

Exactly. Sometimes, in order to try and preserve the life of the casualty, you've gotta do it.

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[Quornholio]

Agree wholeheartedly with Big Ham. My father in law used to marshal at a local race track, and saw a fatality involving a young lad. He said, every bit of 'knowledge' went out the window, trying to save his life was all that mattered.

[The999Kid]

The Priorities in lay mans terms are thus

BREATHING - if they arent breathing, it doesnt matter what else is wrong with them including spine problems, missing limbs etc they have to start breathing again before anything else can happen

BLEEDING/BLOOD -once its established that theyre breathing... you tend to whatever is going to kill them next, invariably its going to be the startling red liquid spurting out of them. Without that stuff inside them theyre going to lose priority one (their breathing). doing whatever you can to keep it inside them short of scooping it up and pouring it down their necks. this also includes treating shock and maintaining blood pressure in the case of internal bleeds (which at trackside cant be assessed unless you're superman with xray vision)

BONES - ok they're breathing, their blood is in their blood vessels, now deal with their bones! that includes immobilising spinal trauma, traction of fractured though bones, slings on those broken arms and even some zinc oxide tape for that broken finger....
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[Nixon]

Its already been mentioned above the priorities and treatment for differing trauma conditons.

In realistic terms for Mr Simoncelli he had a high speed blunt impact to his chest from Edwards's wheel, followed by a high speed impact to the neck/head area (we don't know exactly where yet).

Both of these incidents have a huge potential to inhibit breathing and ultimately the heart.

Our lungs operate by having free space to expand and contract into allowing gas exchange to get oxygen into the body. Following high speed, blunt trauma it is not uncommon for blood vessels in and around the lungs to burst pouring blood into the lung space, reducing the amount of space for the lungs to expand. This is called a Haemothorax. This will kill you quickly if not drained properly by a doctor and severe invasive surgery. This will not be done at a dirty trackside in front of thousands of fans when a fully equipped medical centre is available within minutes.

Similarly to a Haemothorax is a Haemocarditis which is blood surrounding the heart causing something called cardiac tamponade, which again inhibits the hearts ability to pump, imagine it as being crushed by lots of blood.

Both of these required diagnosis by ultrasound, which paramedics don't generally do and are located in a medical centre. Once these are diagnosed then they require severe surgery to treat which is best left to a clean, warm, dry, well equipped and fully staffed med centre.

Another consideration for blunt thoracic trauma is that with enough force the main arteries and veins that come from the heart can tear or burst allowing blood to pour out of the heart and not get to where it is needed, you have minutes to live with a torn aortic artery! (Imagine a hole in your crank case and all the oil leaking out)

The head trauma can cause loads of problems all of which are bad, but the important bit to consider is that the brain controls the lungs and the heart once that specific part of the brain is damaged it will never be repaired, no matter how much CPR goes on.

Those are just a few examples of what can be involved, under then skin in major thoracic injures and if you understand that then you can begin to build a picture that he was potentially very severely injured and unlikely to be breathing at this point, or definitely not taking efficient breaths.

Add to the picture that he was unconscious on the track immediately post impact and the decision to move was made by a Medical Clinician all adds together to show that he was in a very serious condition.

Working on the presumption that he was not breathing trackside, spinal immobilisation would take less priority over the lack of breathing as that will kill him sooner than spinal shock in most cases. Their priority was to get him breathing and his heart pumping properly.

TLDR: Due to the incident he was most likely not breathing trackside. This takes priority over full spinal immobilisation which requires time, which he unfortunately did not have.

The best place for him to treat his injuries were in the Medical Centre, with all the staff and equipment. There was very little that could be done trackside and he needed major surgery quickly.

[Teflon-Mike]

Motorcycles are dangerouse.
Riding motorcycles fast, is very dangerouse.
Racing Motorcycles, pushing the ragged edge of their performance, is, dicing with death.

We all know the risks, if we're not prepared to put the anti on the table, we shouldn't play the game.

Organised motorsport does all it practically can to minimise the risks of riding. It cannot remove them, and racing would not be the thrill for rider or the spectacle for spectator if it was bot there.

Marshalls and Medics at organised motorsports events are often there on thier own time, and if it was not for thier dedication, devotion, professionalism in an unprofessional role, and thier good will, we would simply NOT have organised competition.

Starting at the grass roots of local club competition where it is entirely supported by volunteers, up to national and international level, where volunteers STILL fill vital roles.

Malaysia has never enjoyed a great reputation for safety, as have other tracks over the years, including numerouse, supposedly 'premier' venues in Europe and the UK.....

The Isle of Man 'lost' Grand-Prix championship status, because it was deemed 'too dangerouse'.... And that particular course still regularly claims its victims.

Solace is, the riders accept the risks, and go out, doing the thing they love, at a peak of 'living'.....

To grieve is natural, to look for any lessons that may be learned from any tradjedy, beneficial....

Thirty - forty years ago, with motorcycle performance racing ahead at an unprecidented rate, engines doubling in power within a decade, ahead of the tyres and chassis to cope with them, crashes were an every day occurrence, and people didn't so often walk away from them.

Today; the lessons learned, have gone into making the machines better; to making track and course safety better; into better understanding motorcycle injuries and making treatement better.

Crashes are seldom so frequent; seldom so dramatic; and seldom so tragic... but they STILL occur.

And looking for scape-goats will not change that, or bring back any rider, chasing his dreams, looking for glory.
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