Licence categories, possible DVLA fuckup?

[...]

Once again I require your assistance, elders of BCF!

I passed my A2 on the 23/11/2010. I then passed Accelerated Access on the 24/11/2011. Sent licence off to the DVLA thinking "this is going to go wrong..."

...And today I get the brown envelope containing my new licence. I open it up to find I have Cat A on the rear of the photocard with a "from" date of 24/11/11. My counterpart shows "A2" under "Entitlement History", valid from the 23/11/10.

I was under the impression I already had an "A" licence and was just removing the restriction code?

I've looked at the following pages for guidance and I believe the DVLA have it wrong, can anyone confirm?

https://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/LearnerAndNewDrivers/RidingMotorcyclesAndMopeds/DG_4022568

https://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022547 - This one especially as there's no "A2" licence code.

[Alex A]

What's wrong with it?

You had A2 from the Restricted Test Pass date. Now you have A from the Accellerated Access pass date.

[J.M.]

From how I understand it, is as follows:

You've got the A2 license and you've got the A license.
The A2 license is the A license except it has your restriction on it. On your license the A2 license is shown as category A because you do have a full A license (it just has a temporary restriction.)
After your restriction expires it's an A license.

In short, A2 is actually a sub-category of the A license and is not actually a category of its own. This is as suggested here:

[...]

I'm just worried the insurance companies will see that my category A was "only" held from 24/11/11, when in actuality I've had it a year longer.

Edit: It would appear the information on the DVLA website is there, just not entirely easy to find. I bow to thee, knowledgeable gods of motorcycling, and I will take my stupidity out of your presence.

[blurredman]

That's a point..


When the A2 naturally matures into A, and you send off for a new licence, will you get the A2 pass date back? Or will you get the date on which the A2 has matured into A (ie, two years post)
____________________
CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S, 1979 MZ TS150.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 18k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 10k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 40k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 51k.

[P.addy]

A"... is your FULL licence, so you say I've held it for 1 year, even though your A category says like 4 days ago or whatnot

[dodgydog]

Jesus fucking H, I remember when riding around the block was enough, as long as you didn't run the examiner down when he jumped out for the emergency stop, ( it happened ) job's a good un.


Dog
____________________
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you heard is not exactly what I meant

[...]

[Rogerborg]

Did you put a covering letter in telling those incompetent twunts not to dick around with your pass date? I seem to recall suggesting that to someone recently, since we know they've been nobbing us over on this issue.

Right, under current legislation A2 is not a license class. It's a category of test bike - and is a local UK definition.

Ignore whatever jizz is currently congealing on the Wikipedia licensing page, I can't mop it up fast enough. The underlying European directive is 91/439/EEC aka the 2nd European Driving License Directive, implemented in the usual gold plated cack handed manner in the UK as The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1996.

Please take a moment to read them. Neither document makes any mention of "A2". All (current) European motorcycle licenses are either A1 or A, and all A licences by default limit you to 25kW / 0.16kW/kg for 2 years, although "this requirement as to previous experience may be waived if the candidate is at least 21 years old, subject to the candidate's passing a specific test of skills and behaviour".

There's nothing particularly complex about this. What causes the problem is that in the UK, almost everybody over 21 goes down the DAS route (our local interpretation of that "specific test of skills and behaviour") and so a perfectly standard European A license is considered to be a "kiddy" license and we get all sneery about it and try to give it a different name to distinguish it from a "proper" license.

tl;dr version - I would recommend that you write to the DVLA and tell them that are in error. You obtained your A license, as defined by 91/439/EEC, on 23/11/2010.

If they argue, kick it off up their complaints procedure, citing the relevant directive and law at each stage and noting that you will be happy to drag them into a civil action with the next insurer that tries to chisel a year off of your license duration. You went from a 1 year A license to a 0 year A license after "upgrading" it? I don't think so. They need to change your pass date back to 23/11/2010 and then shut up forever.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[...]

[Bomberman]

[stinkwheel]

The thing to do is make it clear to an insurance company what the case is.

Do it over the phone and when they ask "How long have you held this licence.", tell them "I passed my A2 motorcycle test on: xxxxx and passed my direct access motorcycle test on: yyyyyy.". Let them draw their own inferences from this.

I say this because someone on here recently had their insurance cancelled on the basis that they had arbitrarily decided that "full" licence meant when the restricted period was finished, not from when the full licence was issued. They maintained the figure given for how long a full licence had been held had been misrepresented and cancelled the policy.

Before anyone comes on telling me this is wrong, I agree, it is totally wrong BUT it is also de-facto the case with at least one insurance company. At the end of the day, it's their decision if they want to issue you insurance and on what basis. If you explain things like I described above, you cover your arse.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[EazyDuz]

I just got my licence today after doing A2 test, it just says A on the back of the card, then next to it it shows the restriction.
____________________
To shreds you say? Tss tss tss

[Rogerborg]

[...]

Just called up, the nob on the end of the phone insists that I held an A2 licence previously and that it is correct.

When asked why this licence category doesn't appear on any of the government websites or anywhere in the 2nd EU DL Directive he told me "It's obvious I'm not going to convince you, just put it in writing and we'll tell you why you're wrong".

The fucking cheek of it!

I've held a Cat A licence for a year, I want my fucking licence to show it!

Edit: Supervisor called back, she said she's going to consult the policy department tomorrow, but her guidance document shows am A2 licence. Politely reminded her that A2 is not a licence class and there's no mention of the licence type in any official documents. She once again said she's only going by the advice sheet she has and that she will call back tomorrow.

[Rogerborg]

They really are ignorant, arrogant mongs. The way to "convince" you would be to cite the Directive, Statute or Regulation that defines an "A2 license". Good luck with that.

Well, at least you've got the ball rolling. I'll doubtless be in the same boat the next time I get a license refresh and they knock 2 years off of my "pass" date, so from me for getting stuck in.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[0l0dom0l0]

[Rogerborg]

FOI reply:

[KingKong]

[Rogerborg]

[KingKong]

Aha, I get it now...

Point taken and comprehended. Thank you
____________________
Kwak 636 (2005)

Past - 2016 Ninja 300 (dark grey); K4 GSXR 600 (sexy yellow); 2002 CBR600FS; 2004 GSXR 1000; 2006 Kwak 636; 2005 Yamaha XVS 1100 Dragstar (facepalm); 2005 Kwak 636; 2011 Yamaha R125.

[...]

After a lot of back-and-forth on the phones today, the woman said "A2 is just something we use internally in the DVLA" and would have nothing more.

I've sent my licence back today (registered post!) with a nice letter explaining exactly what I want and the relevant legislation to back it up. Fingers crossed...

[Rogerborg]

Great stuff, let's see what they make of it.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Frost]

I passed my test in 2004, the 2 year restricted period ended in 2006, which is what my licence says, cat A licence since 2006. So should that say since 2004 as that's when i actually passed?

[...]