The Pro's and Con's of becoming a Motorcycle Instructor ?

[Dale]

Firstly a big "Hello" to all on the forum. I'm Dale, 52, and live and work in Huddersfield. Had a full licence since 94 but havent been on bikes for a while.
Anyway, to my query ref the title - The Pro's and Con's of becoming a Motorcycle Instructor, firstly this isn't a flash in the pan thought, i've actually been thinking about this for about 3 years. 3 years ago i was seperated and divorced, since then i've been thinking now i can do what i really want to do without the wife saying it doesent pay enough ect, - so i'm thinking why not ?

I've been an avid "guest" on here for some 6 months and find the site and you all a very helpfull bunch, and have noticed 1 or 2 of you are Motorcycle Instructors - hence my query.
Of course i've searched the net for onfo but really end up being frustrated at the lack of "real" information regarding this, so i'm hoping Teflon Mike and 1 or 2 others can give me some real insights as to what it's like, pitfalls, pro's and cons ect.
I'm primarily looking for "Job Satisfaction" and as a instructor in the Army i found it very rewarding, so i'm assuming i would get the same job satisfaction from teaching and subsequently seeing my pupils successfully pass their CBT ect and being rewarded by seeing their happy smiling faces.


I can't find any proper books, or website information on the subject either. Obviously i may not be looking in the right places so any links to sites, books ect would be helpfull.
And i look forward to Teflon and others giving me some real insight to the job, with pointers and links to further info / reading.

Many thanks in advance,

Dale.
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Live Long & Ride.!

[Daytona Paul]

Hi Dale,

Depends what you want to get out of it really.

You won't get rich, you will need to work in all weathers. You may lose your enjoyment of biking, although I haven't yet

On the upside I get a huge buzz when it goes right for a student who has been struggling, or when a student passes their test.

Couple of different ways to do it:

Become a Downtrained instructor, the school teach you then inform the DSA that you are OK and then you are free to teach students CBT. IMO this is not the way to go. You will normally be paid less (I know schools who pay £55 - 60 a day, you use your own bike and pay for your own fuel)

The way to do it, IMO, is to pass the CBT1 assessment at Cardington, and then the DAS assessment. You can then work for a few schools or set up your own. You can either do a course to prepare for Cardington or work as a Downtrained Instructor for a while then go to Cardington.

The above is assuming that you want to teach learners.

As a blatant plug I am working on a Distance Learning Course to prepare a student for the Theory Side of the CBT1 Assessment, you would then need to gain the hands on experience.

So watch this space as they say, or if anyone would like any more information please ask
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www.angliaroadtraining.com
CBT FROM ONLY £85
Back to Biking Refresher Day £99! Book with a friend and get 20% Discount!

[dsb79]

Well speaking to my instructor about it when doing my training said it was really hard to get the qualification to start with, then if you work for somebody else the money is crap and if you work for yourself the initial outlay is massive as you need a number of 125cc bikes and a number of bikes over 33bhp.

He also had lots of stress with people not turning up when they say they will, his wife had to do a lot of the admin, such as booking tests ect. So i think it sounds like an awesome job for a bike nut, but in reality its not for everyone.

[Dale]

Hi Daytona Paul.
On doing some research on the Downtraining, length of courses and prices of vary enormously. Why is this ? For example, costs are from £800 to £1200 not including accomodation and duration is anything from a weeks intensive to 3-4 months (at weekends) ect.

How long have you been doing it ? do you still find it rewarding ?
The weather dosent bother me but what do you do in the winter when its obviously quiet and too bad weather wise to conduct training safely ? - second or part time job maybe ? (hard to find these days though)
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Live Long & Ride.!

[Dale]

[Daytona Paul]

I do still find the job hugely satisfying after 5 years full time Dale

In the winter months I do a bit of teaching but still usually have CBT's at the weekend.

The different prices are to be expected really, different areas, premises etc. I would ask if the school can put you in touch with genuine past Students and decide then. The company I work for (apart from my self) charges £799 for the 5 day CBT Instructor course and then you are welcome to attend as many CBT's as you want to gain experience. They then offer the DAS Instructor course FOC if you have done the CBT Instructor course with them.

Any school offering to Downtrain should do it for free as once you finish the course you can only work for them.
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www.angliaroadtraining.com
CBT FROM ONLY £85
Back to Biking Refresher Day £99! Book with a friend and get 20% Discount!

[T.C]

I gave up training learners several years ago, for the reason mentioned, it actually got to the point where it was killing my enjoyment of riding, although to be fair, by the time I gave up, I had been doing it both part time (the old RAC/ACU course, then part 1 and finally CBT and DAS) for the best part of 30 years, although I still enjoy the advanced side, but then I have the luxury of also being an advanced instructor as well as an examiner, and I have got to see some pretty parts of the world with some of the contracts I have had, but that is another story altogether.

From the learner point of view, if you plan to work for yourself, it is not just about buying a fleet of suitable bikes, which covers all ranges of student, public liability and employer liability insurance (as well as road risk insurance), site costs, bibs, radio's, and then additionally there are costs such as the DL196 (CBT certificate) which cost £200 a pop, and this is before you start taking a salary.

But before you can do any of this, you also as mentioned have to be qualified, and so you either become down trained and work for someone else on crap money, or go to Cardington to do your CBT and DAS instructor course, which I am advised has a high failiure rate at the moment.

It is a big step, and you need to ensure that if you do go into it, then do so with your eyes open.

I certainly would not want to be starting up again, which is why I am glad that I only deal with the advanced stuff these days
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It is better to arrive 30 seconds late in this world, than 30 years early in the next

[Dale]

T.C - Interesting post and thanks for your reply.
I'm definately not wanting to start/own/run my own school. I (as you pointed out - cost of bikes, radios, equipment, insurance ect ect) would never have the funds/wherewithall to do that.

Speaking to a local instructor, i would rather do it as he does - He works on a self employed basis, uses one of the schools bikes for the actual training / lessons thus saving on his own insurance by not having to have motorcycle instructors policy on his own bike as he parks it up when he gets to work, so his own bike is purely for his commute to and from his place of work. I assume he just gets paid a set amount for each lesson he gives.
Or is there another way ? Can you be employed by a company on the books ? (i.e. P.AY.E.) or is it all done on a self employed basis ?
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Live Long & Ride.!

[Daytona Paul]

I believe the pass rate is around the 20% mark T.C

The norm is to be Self Employed Dale. But that also means that you can, if you wish, get 'tickets' to work for more than one school
____________________
www.angliaroadtraining.com
CBT FROM ONLY £85
Back to Biking Refresher Day £99! Book with a friend and get 20% Discount!

[Dale]

Interesting Paul. So whats a "Ticket" and how do you go about getting one ?
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Live Long & Ride.!

[Dale]

With reference to my request about a book on the subject, i did manage to find this:- https://www.carlsmotorcycletraining.com/catalog_1.html
Dose'nt say anything about what it actually covers, except it gives you all you need to know about how to pass the exam ect, at Cardington, which is obviously the subject matter, so i'm assuming that will suffice. But at £25 a copy, would it be worth it ? and would you recommend i buy it ? as i cannot find any similar info online ?
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Live Long & Ride.!

[Daytona Paul]

[Imonster]

I wrote this a while back on here but I'd still say it's relevant - I was full time DAS for a few years, but only do a little bit part time these days:

[Dale]

An interesting post Imonster, thanks. A couple of questions if i may... .
How come you only managed to work 2 days a week following the new EU guidelines ?
And secondly, it is the local schools that are wanting between £800 - and £1200, and thats just to be downtrained to a level where i can teach CBT only (not DAS), so is this the norm ? it's certainly alot of money to lay out, especially if you can only do a couple of days a week and that certainly wont give me a living ? So whats the solution ?

Thanks again all for your input, at least one way or another i'm finding out more now, even if it's not all quite what i expected.
Cheers, and i look forward to more information.
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Live Long & Ride.!

[Imonster]

[kawakid]

I suppose if money is not a priority ie the kids are grown up, the mortgage is paid up then why not.

You might have to move towns though, I work near Huddersfield and wanted to take my test there (8 years back now) so I could practice at lunchtimes , but there is no test centre for motorcycles!
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I've a twin and a 4.

[Rogerborg]

I'll just sling in my usual observation that 2012 is likely to be busy, but all bets are off when the 3DLD comes in in January 2013. Long term there might be 3 times as many tests being done, or folk just might not bother until they hit 24 and can do the new DAS. It could go either way, but I'd hesitate to invest money in it until we see how it shakes out.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[T.C]

[Daytona Paul]

Our business declined 40% after the introduction of the 2 part test and has not really returned.

As Rogeborg has said we expect to be very busy next year. After Jan 2013 who knows.
____________________
www.angliaroadtraining.com
CBT FROM ONLY £85
Back to Biking Refresher Day £99! Book with a friend and get 20% Discount!

[yen_powell]

I taught CBT and DAS as a part time job back when DAS first came out. Compared to the full timers I was in a better position as I could argue about stuff I was unhappy with, they couldn't as it was their living.

The pay was pretty rubbish (I worked for a company) and I remember having lunch the first day I worked, being told off for taking an hour. 'We only take half an hour here' they said. This was fair enough, I had no problem with that. I did when I found out that a full hour was stopped for lunch from the pay every day for all staff.

The DAS assessment at Cardington was strange, when I went there was no advice on what they expected, I had to just wing it and make it up as I went along. I had only been teaching CBT for a few weeks when I went. I can remember hearing one bloke say in the briefing room before the start that he had failed previously because he hadn't known what a pegasus crossing was. This panicked me, I put in ped crossings for a living and I hadn't heard of them back then. The name gave it away of course.

I gave it up when I moved away from the area I was working in. The extra money was nice and most of the pupils were a pleasure to teach, but I never went and did it anywhere else, despite two offers from local companies around me (one of whom went bust just after offering me a job). As said here previously, it does ruin your leisure motorcycling. Most instructors I knew rode home after a days work like loonies, the strain of riding like a saint all day got to them.
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XT1200Z and a DR350 in bits

[BIKEVIDDER]

I started to become an instructor.
Part time on the w/ends.
Didn't take me long to work out the money was poor.
I looked into going solo but the cost is high to get started.
Ok if you have a good redundancy lump sum or similar.
I didn't.
Cons as I see it, poor pay working for someone else.
Pro's.
A good little earner if you can go solo.
Long hours 7 days a week spring to autum, save left over cash for free time in the winter.
You need to look at it as a job involving bikes not a way to earn while riding a bike.
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GROWING OLD DISGRACFULLY

[Dale]

Hi again all, thanks for all the helpful replies so far. Definately food for thought.

Imonster:- I'm in Huddersfield.
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Live Long & Ride.!

[Dale]

A happy new year to you all. Now that the festive period is officially over and things are back to normal, i'm hoping one or two more of you can add some valuable insight into this topic.

Cheers all,
Dale.
____________________
Live Long & Ride.!

[Teflon-Mike]

Yup, I got your pm, and frankly, I cant.
I wasn't going to offer comment; I haven't instructed for over five years, due to ill health. Before that I was a Down-Trained Instructor; and the rules & regs were all different. I believe you now have to become an 'Instructor Under Training' and be reccomended to Cardington by an existing school, or something. I was about to go up to Cardington, when I fell ill; but it hadn't really been a 'priority' as I had always enjoyed Instructing CBT more than road-training; had little interest in instructing DAS or setting up my own ATB, as I was a volunteer working for expenses only!

ALL I can offer is that I found it hugely rewarding; watching new riders 'grow' before your very eyes.... reason I enjoyed CBT more than Road-Train, I guess.

There are downsides, though; and whenever you hear of an accident; your first reaction is "I hope they weren't one of mine!"

It never really effected my own road-riding enjoyement, apart from on Road-Training, where I would enjoy CG like 70mpg fuel consumption, but rue squaring tyres following 125'ers about at 20mph!

The hours were onerouse for some, though; and instructing CBT's on a week-end can take a big chunk of your leisure time, if you are working full time. If not, and you are looking at Instructing to earn your corn; then fact most want to do courses on the weekends can mean you don't get much jam on your bread, and I know two schools that have 'gone under'; one of whom I worked for sporodically.

Ultimately depends on what you want or expect out of it, and how you approach it.
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[kblackburn]

Hi,

I used to be a downtrained cbt instructor, for a local company, that was seven years ago,worked just weekends, used by own bike, not a school one, it didn't pay much.
I gave up when my wife became very ill, and needed constant care.
The situation at home is now improved and to my suprise the training school I worked for has approached me, to return, again on a part time basis,weekend work.apparently he has got rid of a trainer that he had issues with.
He has offered me the same hourly rate, that I was on 7 years ago, £6,00 per hour, what with the rise in fuel prices, insurance,and the rest, I'm quite shocked, having found that other companies are paying £40-50 per pupil, per day.
I am expecting too much ?