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benmg
L Plate Warrior
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Alpha-9
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 Posted: 16:09 - 23 Feb 2012  Post subject: |
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£500? That it?
You might get a banged up old ped for that  .
Otherwise i'd says yamaha ybr 125
The glove that fits most hands
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| bikertomm |
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bikertomm
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| Posted: 16:17 - 23 Feb 2012 Post subject: |
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You might struggle getting a half decent 125 for £500, the top bit of advice I can say is don't be tempted by chinese bikes, they are cheap for a reason
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benmg
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| Shinigami |
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Shinigami
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 17:33 - 23 Feb 2012 Post subject: Re: (Soon to be) new rider |
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Tef's going to tear you a new eye-hole. I'll try to be gentle.
OK, have you budgeted £120 or so for a CBT?
How about protective gear: at a minimum a helmet, gloves, and a neck-to-toe waterproof solution? Ideally you'll want leathers or cordura textiles, and decent boots. The more "all weathers" you intend to be, the more you'll want to spend on decent clobber, the slightest leak will make you very cold and miserable very quickly indeed.
How about insurance? Think at least £200 for a 125 on a provisional, even at 25.
| benmg wrote: | I'm looking for [a 125 that's] cheap and cheerful |
Everyone is, that's what makes them expensive. 
| benmg wrote: | an all weather bike that i can comfortable do the dual carriageway commute without a struggle (needs a top end speed of 70mph min). |
Doesn't exist. A Learner Legal 125 will top out at a real (not indicated) 70 on the flat, even if it's banging on the 11kW limit. And you'll be ragging it constantly to stay there and losing speed on every hill.
| benmg wrote: | Around £500 would hit the mark |
That's essentially the minimum price for any working 125 with an MOT and 2 tyres that both touch the ground at the same time.
| benmg wrote: | Any ideas of cheapy bikes would be appreciated. |
Buy anything, pass your tests, get a larger bike. You'll get much better value for your money.
First things first though, do your CBT and see how you feel about riding. It's not for everyone.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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Posted: 01:56 - 24 Feb 2012  Post subject: Re: (Soon to be) new rider |
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| benmg wrote: | Looking for a half decent first-timer bike / ped that will get me to and from work. |
Where do you live? Where do you work? How should we know what would or would not be more or less 'suitable'?
You could have a 60 mile cross country commute, or a five minute trip down 20mph traffic calmed roads!
| benmg wrote: | I'm looking for something cheap and cheerful, an all weather bike that i can comfortable do the dual carriageway commute without a struggle (needs a top end speed of 70mph min). |
So you will be looking for something to get your licence on, now then, so you can legally ride such a bike....
Though why you would want a bike that can do 70 'min' (whats that five 'min' under an hour and a quarter!) When the MAXIMUM legal speed limit in this country is 70mph?
| benmg wrote: | Around £500 would hit the mark, so definitely an older one but could throw extra if it meant an easy maintenance job. |
Sorry... I thought you were being serious for a second......
Yeah... err... Beggers cant be choosers mate! Good luck!
Double your budget, add half a gain, and you MIGHT, just MIGHT be in a possition you can actually be a BIT selective about what you buy! £500? You are dragging the dregs of whats out there, competing with nieve optimistic 17 year olds on pocket money budget, all hoping to snaffle a GOOD bike for a pittance!
You might get a Chitty chinese thing with some Tax & Test on it that some-one REALLY hasn't had any trouble with, and cant understand why no-one will buy.... but more likely you'll be taking a money pit off their hands that needs more running repairs than petrol! Jap-Branded stuff, that has T&T will be described as having 'minor faults' owner doesn't have time to fix, but should be an 'easy fix'... like 'wont run' think its carbs or ignition; that probably means the engines fucked.
Up the budget to £750-£1000 and you might JUST start to be looking at more reasonable bikes, that MIGHT prove a bit more reliable.... but probably need 'some-thing', like tyres or a service when you get them, and then, only if you dont pick the fancier stuff, and stick to utiliterian commuters or less loved semi-cruisers.
Only when you get over the £1000 threshold do you start to find bikes that are still new enough to stand a chance of being useful, and reliable; but again, only picking the sensible ones. And you really need to have around £1500 to have any real 'choice' amongst them!
| benmg wrote: | Any ideas of cheapy bikes would be appreciated |
Get a full licence, and there's LOADS, though beggers STILL cant be choosers.... but hunt about, and you can pick up useful 'big-bikes' for not too much money. I paid only £450 for my CB750 taxed & tested, and that did me for six months before starting to 'do it up'.
You could probably get a Honda CD200 Benley for £500... nice cheap, cheap to insure, cheap to run, every day dependable commuter with 15bhp and able to nudge the high side of 70.
Things like the older ZZR600 can be picked up for not a lot of money; genuine 140mph performance; great value for money bike; though in the bargain basement, many have suffered neglect, all the mechanics hidden under the bodywork.
More sensibly the 'commuter twins'; bikes like the Honda CB500; the Suzuki GS500 or the Kawasaki ER5; good mpg, low tech, twin cyclinder motors; tend to be cheap and easy to keep on top of the maintenence; but you are probably looking at more like £800-£1200 to get a 'good one' likely to be reliable.
BUT.... you need a LICENCE to ride such tackle...
But THAT ought to be what you were going to get ANYWAY....
CBT is your first lesson. It does NOT make you a qualified rider. It merely validates your LEARNER LICENCE... awarded for you to LEARN, so you can take a test.
If you have no intention it learning to ride, and getting a full licence, you have no business being on a bike in the first place.
L-Platers are THE most at risk riders on the road. Bad enough if you HAVE to be there because you ARE genuinely learning; but being there, prating about 'pretending' to be a learner, JUST so you dont have to fess up to tests; you are a hazard to yourself and every-one around you.
And I think your whole 'plan' needs a FUCK site more thought.
As said, you need to budget for the CBT course; training and tests. At 25 you COULD do a DAS course. If you decide you want a 125, its so you can practice to get a licence. NOT to make it easier to get to work, or save bus-fares... if you can do that, WHEN you have learned a bit, great, but that is NOT what the bike is for; bike is to get you a licence.
You need to budget for riding kit; helmet; gloves, water-proofs. Even keeping it skinny, and ONLY buying the bare minimum, there's probably £100's worth in there.
Then you have insurance; and maintenence, & little bikes take a lot of it.
And THEN you have the realworld cost of 125's... where as said, £500 you will be dragging the dregs, begging, not choosing.
Biking CAN provide 'ecconomical' if not 'cheap' transport, IF you can hack the inconvenience of togging up to ride; the maniacs out to kill us; the crap weather; high maintenance demands; and general lack of creature comforts; convenience, and practicality; but the start-up threshold is a LOT higher than your suggested budget allows. taking on board training, & kit, tests and high Learner-Legal bike prices.
£500? Best bet is a 30mph moped. THAT is about ALL you can realistically afford. But, you'll probably STILL need CBT, still need helmet & kit; and even £500 will not buy you a lot of moped! Might just get you a cheap and nasty Chinese thing, for you to put together yourself and DIY register; but on the second hand market; you would be looking at old, thrashed and abused Jap or Euro examples.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| von1papen |
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von1papen
Spanner Monkey
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| Posted: 03:49 - 24 Feb 2012 Post subject: |
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If you're extremely lucky you might as I did find a half decent Cg for that price (well I got mine for 300), HOWEVER, I had a good mate who was mechanically savvy who helped me alot, excluding the paint job I could have stuck fifty quid into the bike to get her MOT worthy.
But, in NI I needed no CBT, I was given a spare lid and I had an old leather jacket, army boots and leather gloves
Insurance, MOT, Tax, factor those in too.
Imo biking can be very cheap for transport, but it can also have alot of 'set up' costs. And they're right, you'll wana invest in a full waterproof textile suit. My advice is stick that money into getting yer bike licence. |
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| Taught2BCauti... |
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Taught2BCauti...
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| Posted: 07:55 - 24 Feb 2012 Post subject: |
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If you have a budget of only £500, I would 'throw' a bit extra at getting a history check before parting with your cash!
For that sort of money, you are likely to come across stolen/recovered, Cat C repaired, high-milers and other nasties that will give you grief later on.
Try and spend a bit more, and you will be making an investment - learner legal 125's tend to hold their value well!
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| benmg |
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benmg
L Plate Warrior
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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| Posted: 11:02 - 24 Feb 2012 Post subject: |
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Thank you guys that replied,
right to start..
Budget - misc
All protective equipment, tests and insurance etc have been accounted for, (outside of the main budget.)
(We have a couple of bike shops that have been pretty good at giving ideas of what the minimum kit I would need plus any extras, should I so choose .i.e (high vis, bulb set, lock.))
Budget - bike
Mark this one down to inexperience, the price is flexible due to the market.
I was using adds and ebay to guess a budget based on what was selling.
Also I have no problem with minor repairs, rust, paint work etc.
The commute
admittedly i should have made this a bigger point, 15 - 20 mile round commute.
As mentioned on the duel carriageway.
Maximum speed limit.
I guess my point is that i don't want to get stuck being overtaken by every lorry on the road, we have some heavy industry in the area and talking with local experienced riders brings up topics that concern me.
Plus (so I've heard) going fast is fun.
Bike ideas
CB750, Honda CD200, ZZR600, Honda CB500, Suzuki GS500, Kawasaki ER5.
I will look into all of these, thanks.
Tests and long term
Although I didn't mention it, yes i will be looking to take my test as soon as I feel able.
"Plan needs a FUCK site more thought"
Yes I am still feeling the water, seeing what bikes will suit and how this will work out long term.
To be honest that's why I posted, I know that I know very little about bikes.
I could have already brought some wreck that was totally unsuitable. |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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| Posted: 21:23 - 24 Feb 2012 Post subject: |
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| benmg wrote: | Budget - misc
All protective equipment, tests and insurance etc have been accounted for, (outside of the main budget.)
(We have a couple of bike shops that have been pretty good at giving ideas of what the minimum kit I would need plus any extras, should I so choose .i.e (high vis, bulb set, lock.)) |
See other posts; 'kit' is, IF you have to make ecconomies you can skimp some budget.
Security: Cyclone alarm £25; Budget Lock & Chain £15 Budget Disc or U lock £15 and you have as 'much' practicaly security as you can buy for the money.
[b]Riding Gear[b] DO NOT be sold a 'My First Riding Outfit' full leathers, and boots for £200!
Helmets: start from under £30 they all meet the same protection standards. Open face helmets are VERY cheap, and don't have so many 'features' not to work, and are a very good budget starting point. Buy on 'fit' not style or features.
Gloves Again, buy on fit. you want 'feel' so thick and armoured may be less than helpful starting out; though cold hands dont help much. Dont be afraid to pay good money for good gloves. But starting out; a cheap pair of ski gloves are just as good as anything.
Water-Proofs: Tend to find I get wet, more than I crash. More 'useful' than leathers, that aren't actually water-proof, and a water-proof over suit covers multitude of 'improvised' riding aparel.
Often incorporate in build hi-vis and or come in bright colours for visability. A 'sam brown belt; aprox £10 is 'better' than flourescent bib.
Everything Else You can, to start, improvise on the 'layer principle' More materiel, between you and tarmac more stuff to wear away before skin. Layers also offer 'padding' against impact.
Raiding your wardrobe, or other peoples; for 'sensible' outdoor wear, can readily put together an 'improvised' riding outfit for nix; that offers as much 'practical' protection, sometimes MORE than dedicated riding aparrel; especially questionable 'Budget' kit as 'my first riding outfit'.
Remember - Protective Gear only has ANY value when you crash. And even then; in a low speed tumble, added protection of 'propper' kit if a pair of jeans would save a graze, is redundant, while face planting an artic, NOTHING going to help! Will NOT stop you getting hurt; merely limits how much you MIGHT get hurt! Dont want to get hurt? DONT CRASH!
Starting out, most old hands, started with nothing more than Hat & gloves. We bought water-proofs after we got wet a few times. Then learned, often the hard way, to buy quality over quantity!
| benmg wrote: | Budget - bikeMark this one down to inexperience, the price is flexible due to the market. I was using adds and ebay to guess a budget based on what was selling.
Also I have no problem with minor repairs, rust, paint work etc.
|
If you are looking in the popular places; e-bay; auto/bike trader/ MCN Classified; you are not going to find much in the <£500 bracket that is worth buying... at least not as a practical daily rider.
As for 'minor repairs'... you join the club of overly nieve optimists that TRULY believe that they can score a 'bargain' buying something a bit tatty, that just needs a 'service' some polish and a bit of paint.
My O/H Snowie suffered ten years of that; with a boy-freind and step-day that were convinced you didn't pay more than £300 for a 125; she had a string of bikes that either hardly ever worked and or were death traps when they did!
Trust me; I buy old tiddlers to fix up for 'fun'... I'm dissabled, and to me, its a way to keep my brain working, and slightly more productive than watching Jeramy Kyle.
Paint & Sust and the odd blown bulb, are usually the LAST thing that needs attension on old bikes. By the time they fall into that price range; the list of maledies is normally long and horrible.
Learner bikes, are built down to a price, at the very start. Costs the maners almost as much to make a 'little' 125 as it does a 250 or 500. There's hardly any less parts and it takes just as much man-power to put them together; BUT becouse they are 'little' they wont sell for the same price.
They are also limited in power; and performance; so to make them 'useful' they have to be built down to a weight. That means they cant over engineer them to be so rugged and durable.
THEN they get sold to LEARNERS... who dont know how to ride them. Mash gears. Abuse Clutches. Thrash the Engine. And FALL OFF. They probably also dont know how to look after them very well. So, chains dont get tensioned properly. Spark plugs get cross threaded. Carburettors get taken apart and put back wrong.
And NO-ONE will spend money on a 'cheap' bike; so when chains get worn out; they dont get replaced; when indicators get broken, they dont get fixed, they get taped up or took off. Bent handlebars get tugged straight. Brakes dont get renewed when they are past wear limit; bits of coke can get used to shim them tighter.
I know; I see all this kind of 'bothery' every time I lift a spanner to one and start to put it right.
Buy a fixer-upper, and it will NOT be a small matter of polishing a bit of chrome, painting some plastic, cleaning a carb and changing a spark-plug!
Its a fools game.
If you want a 'Project'; they can be great fun, and you can learn an awful lot. You will rarely get a working serviceable, roadworthy bike for less than you could buy one; but you might build a better one. But it wont be something that you can wheel int the Garage on a Sunny Spring Bank-Holiday Friday after noon, and be riding to work on the Tuesday!
If you want a rider; buy a rider. If you want a project; buy a project. Budget three times what you expect it to cost; allow six times as long; and expect more Fun hassle than you can imagine.
But you have to forget the cost; the time; the effort and all the frustration along the way; or what it might be worth in £ value at the end. ONLY thing that makes a 'Project' worth doing is the 'feeling' IF you finish it, climbing on, starting it up and riding the bike YOU built. Becouse no other fucker will value it the same way!
If you want a project bike; do a big one. Hardly any more hassle; hardly any more cost; hardly any more time; more reward IF its done; and you can get more use out of it as a bike you can keep; and not be frustrated by soon as you have a licence.
And here and now; with ten and a bit months to new licence laws; risk of a project 125 likely to stop you from exploiting current licence system to get a full licence with one.
Under £500 what you will probably be looking at, IF it has an MOT are older Jap branded bikes with twenty years of Learner Abuse and neglect to put right; more likely, something that is prettily painted scrap, some-one else has already tried to 'revive', found too expensive and or difficult; after doing teh pretty bits and is flogging on to claw back what they have spent.
OR Chinese Generic bikes. These are pretty crap to start with and suffer horendouse depreciation. There ARE some useful bikes out there; but not many. But they are all high maintenence, and low performance. Can, if you are clued up on them; mechanically minded; and prepared to put in the time and effort to keep on top of the loose nuts and bolts, and wampy electrics; prove cheap wheels. BUT not MANY even if they are clued up, have an easy time or make any real savings with one.
| benmg wrote: | The commuteadmittedly i should have made this a bigger point, 15 - 20 mile round commute.As mentioned on the duel carriageway. |
Well, most trucks are governed at 55mph.... I ride a tiddler by choice and dont have much problem riding duel carriageways or motorways on one.
Its not nice; the bikes are very light and prone to being buffeted around, and no you dont have the power to go blasting past trucks.
So dont! IF you use these roads, and on a LEARNER BIKE, which you have on L-Plates to LEARN on... you dont HAVE to.... you wouldn't expect a car driving instructor to double up as a taxi and give you your lesson on the way to work, would you?
If you want to use them; withing the capability of your vehicle; a 'decent' 125 ought to be able to sit in the truck stack, and have a 'bit' or reserve to get up hills or over take the odd slower more heavily loaded balast truck on a steel climb IF you have a big enough gap in teh over taking lane to do it safely....
BUT, this is a restricted performance bike; its intended operating enviroment is around town; trundiong round 20, 30, 40 mph suburban streets, with the capability, to BRIEFLY achieve 60'ish' on a National Speed limit road.
Battling with lorries trying to treat the thing like you would car; you are pushing the envelope of what this kind of bike is designed to do. Learner Restrictions aren't there so you can have a bike that does EVERYTHING you might want.... thats what a FULL licence is for.
Learner Restrictions are to let you have a bike that WILL Let you 'learn' on, anything else is bonus.
So; until you have the licence; and a big bike that has more weight and will be more comfy on that route; either pick another route on slower roads, or get to work another way.
| benmg wrote: | Maximum speed limit.
I guess my point is that i don't want to get stuck being overtaken by every lorry on the road, we have some heavy industry in the area and talking with local experienced riders brings up topics that concern me.Plus (so I've heard) going fast is fun. |
So... get 125, pass tests get a big bike.
Going fast CAN be fun... crashing however, I have always found isn't..... nor is getting a NIP through the post and demand for money with menaces, having been sniped by one of them yellow boxes or a toss-pot with a radar gin on a fly-over!
| benmg wrote: | Bike ideas
CB750, Honda CD200, ZZR600, Honda CB500, Suzuki GS500, Kawasaki ER5. I will look into all of these, thanks. |
Dont waste time looking that far ahead, right now; browse casually as such things are discussed on here. Thats only a few examples. You cant have ANY of them, until you have a licence, worry about THAT, and the 125 that will help you get it. No more.
| benmg wrote: | Tests and long termAlthough I didn't mention it, yes i will be looking to take my test as soon as I feel able. |
Dont think about it; dont find excuses to dally! 'Soon as you feel able'! Fuck THAT... "Soon as I can!" ought to be the attitude.
From standing start to full licence on your own 125, need not take more than 3-6 months, and thats doing it comfortable.
At the moment; we have less than eleven months remaining before new licence laws come in. At the minute you can take tests under 'Standard Bike' rules; on a 120-125cc DSA listed bike, and get a full A group bike licence for the rpivilidge. Has a 2 year 33bhp probation on it; but after the two years that lapses you can ride whatever you like; you do not have to take any more tests.
From Jan 19th next year; testing on a 125 will get you a 125 only licence; two years on that will qualify you to test or do an upgrade course for an A2 licence to ride a 45bhp bike; two years on THAT qualifyies you to test or do upgrade course for full A that you COULD have pretty much hassle free; for ONE set of tests, this year.
Dont fuck about you DONT have time!
DAS; you are over 25; das needn't be an intensive 3 day course; if you dont want the 2 year power probation; you can test on a 'big-bike' and get unrestricted licence. You DONT have to do a course!
| benmg wrote: | "Plan needs a FUCK site more thought"
Yes I am still feeling the water, seeing what bikes will suit and how this will work out long term. To be honest that's why I posted, I know that I know very little about bikes. I could have already brought some wreck that was totally unsuitable. |
Well, its a steep learning curve and we all have to start somewhere! BUT starts with that LICENCE, its the key to all.
Bikes? They are interesting; fun; useful; but they come and go. GET A LICENCE and you have the entitlement to ride ANY of the buggers until you are 70!
Once you have it; you can pick and choose and try all options. But starting out on a learner licence; looking no further than that; you are lumbering yourself with a purely self imposed impediment, limiting your options; get rid of THAT first off, EVERYTHING becomes easier!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| harscot |
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harscot
Crazy Courier
Joined: 19 Apr 2011
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| Posted: 16:15 - 25 Feb 2012 Post subject: |
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God don't you just love Tef always very informative, keep up the good work
____________________
First bike R reg Suzuki 125 GT twin in 1978:
2nd bike X reg Honda 650 Deauville in 2011:
Wish bike a Triumph Thunderbird: Dream bike Triumph Rocket........ |
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| benmg |
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benmg
L Plate Warrior
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 14 years, 111 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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