Hello and advice wanted!

[Kaneda]

Hello all, just thought I'd pop by and introduce myself, I've been lurking for a bit, but have so far found some really sound advice and good folk in general, so I thought I'd get in on the action!

I'm actually looking for a little advice, I've thought about getting a bike for years, and a recent move and a longer commute have basically made it a necessity. My question is, as someone who has always been mechanically minded (we had a Commer van as a kid, you had to fix it, it was too heavy to push), and as someone who has always built things bit by bit, when I couldn't afford things (computers, hi fi's, pushbikes), would it be worth buying something like a Cat D/C write off, and rebuilding it? I think by doing so, I'm effectively spreading the cost until I've done my CBT and tests, and doing so I learn how bikes work, and how to keep them sweet, as well as being able to help other bikers when the time comes. My concern is that chances are any 125cc write off, is likely to have been ragged by 17 year old L platers, before they binned it and the insurance couldn't be bothered to pick up the tab for. I obviously wouldn't touch anything with major structural damage, or needing a top end rebuild, but what do you think the odds are of getting something worth fixing from a Cat D/C?

Sorry for the long first post, been considering this for a while!

[FerretFing]

Hi & welcome to the forum

Regarding write-offs....Making assumptions on how previous owners of bikes treated them is pointless really....it might've been a 70 year old granny going to Tescos to buy anti dribble pantie liners when she stumbled in the cark park & dropped the bike when she realised it was too late & the dribble had happened.......see how easy it is to misjudge

Cat D still tends to be quite expensive
Cat C you really need to know the full damage & do some homework on the cost of replacing the damaged bits - if you find the right bike at the right price go for it

[Kaneda]

[Teflon-Mike]

The current licence laws allow you to test on a 125 and get a full (though 2 year restricted) A Group licence.

From January 19th 2013, just under 11months time; you will have to test sequentially, starting on a 125, then on a 500, then on a 600; with two year qualifying period between test passes. Or be over 24 to do it in one shot via DAS.

With that little time to get a licence cheaply, under current rules, wasting it trying to fix up an old or smashed up bike, is not a great way to use it!

Project bikes can be great fun. Check my profile; links in there to project threads of a few recent ones I have done.

Old rule it will cost at least twice as much as you expect, and take at least three times as long, and prove five times as much hassle, will NOT be far off.

I do these regularly, and for fun, and I OUGHT to know better; yet every time; I still manage to underestimate what its going to take.

AND, if you want a project; pick a big bike. Pretty much same number of parts, same amount of work, similar costs; BUT for a bike that is of more, long term usefulness.

Almost CERTAIN you will NOT fix up a project bike, for LESS MONEY than you could buy something, road worthy, ready to ride. Might build yourself a BETTER bike for the money; but unlikely to sell for what you have put into it, and few will value your efforts as highly as you will. Only way to get the value back then is by riding it.

125, a limited capability machine, with the main 'usefulness', that you can ride it on a learner licence to get tests... soon as you have that licence, it WILL be frustrating, and you are unlikely to want to get the value from riding it, with the possibility of a 'big-bike' now a reality.

Ecconomics of bikes are also perverse; and far more people are as interested in taking them to bits and fiddling with them as riding them. Its a life style and enthusiast 'thing', so you dont find high end bikes being flogged for pennies, becouse a fuse has blown, or somethiung daft, like you might find a high end PC being sold with a 'disc fault' that's no more than its 'full'.

Old cars, get given away, becouse its cheaper than paying for disposal; bikes do NOT, they have bugger all 'dead weight' value compared to a car as 'scrap', but there is always SOME-ONE who is optimistic enough to take on a heap of junk as a project, with ideas of building a cafe racer or chopper from it.

Buying from salvage dealers; so MANY people have the idea of doing a project; they can and frequently DO sell on bikes 'written off' by the insurance company as 'Beyond Ecconomic Repair' for damn nearly as much as road ready runners fetch in private sales!

Take NOTE; the 'experts' at a money grabbing insurance company have deemed cat write offs as being more expensive to fix than scrap..... they would NOT do that if they COULD be cheaply and easily fixed, and flogged for more money. Nor would the salvage dealers punt them out un-fixed, if they could use a few bits from another written off bike, and tout it out as a runner....

Few people 'profit' fixing up old bikes or write offs. Those that do; dont value thier time and or REALLY know thier bikes and the market, to pick ones worth doing, that will sell.

125's? Too many hopeful newbies after them; and far too many nieve; optimistic, and SURE that they can fix a bike up for a pittance, in a weekend, and prepared to pay FAR too much money for the donor bike to do it to.

My advice? Forget it. ODDS are ALL against you.

If you want an antry into biking, 'on the cheap' cheapest way to a full licence with least risk, and hassle, will be a £1250, three year old Yamaha YBR125... spending money to save money.

Bike will work, out the crate; old enough to have lost bulk of depreciation, new enough to still be tight, tidy and reliable.

In six months, ought not demand much in the way of maintenence and repairs, and with tests passed on it, likely to sell for within £150 or so of buy price.

All in; cost of ownership, maybe a couple of hundred quid. With very little risk, of NOT haviong a bike; having a bike that breaks down, OR that it COULD cost you a heck of a lot more.

Risk vs Reward; the rewards are NOT there to make it worth while; especially on a tiddler.

And it really IS unlikely you would actually see a real cash saving; OR even get a better bike for your money, UNLESS you are very lucky.

By all means do a project; but dont do a 125 for tests. And dont expect it to save you money.

Do a big bike, for after tests; and do it for the love of, the experience and the thrill of riding the bike YOU have built, and can enjoy for a lot longer, not being so frustrated by 125's limited performance, when you have full licence.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Kaneda]

Cheers Mike, a stupendous post there. That's my mind pretty much made up then; scrap messing about with a tiddler, and get a proper bike. As an instructor Mike, would you advise doing cbt, then das, and get a proper machine aka 400/500/600, or is it worth doing due diligence on the 125 for a bit, then doing das within a few months. I'm not concerned too much about the new legislation, as I'll be well over 24 before January comes around.

[Kingstondavo]

Im about the same age as you and I think had the same thought process, albeit a bit before...

Personally (can only stress personally as I know a few people on here will disagree), I went straight onto a 600, apart from a week inbetweeners my CBT and DAS where I rented a 125 to commute on to get some practice in. As a relatively big (6'2, 13stone) guy, I found the majority of 125s just didn't fit me and that I was far more comfortable on a big bike.

Worth asking on here for recommendations of training schools, a recommendation is worth 10 times or more than a flashy website and shiny bikes are.

I don't regret jumping straight on a big bike. I would advise against going for a sports 600, stick to the Naked/half faired commuters and you will find they are easy to ride and very comfortable for commuting on.
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Current Ride - 2010 Hornet 600

[Teflon-Mike]