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Decent result against a cash for crash scammer

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T.C
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PostPosted: 14:30 - 06 Mar 2012    Post subject: Decent result against a cash for crash scammer Reply with quote

Respondents who had admitted bringing a fraudulent personal injury claim in a contrived road traffic collision were committed to six weeks in prison for contempt of court. That sentence reflected a substantial reduction from 12 months' imprisonment as they had admitted the fraud and had willingly assisted the insurer in disclosing information.

The applicant insurance company (L) applied for the committal of the respondents (R1, R2, R3 and R4) for contempt of court.

The respondents had brought a claim for car damage and personal injury arising out of a collision. L alleged that the claim was fraudulent and the collision was contrived. The respondents subsequently admitted that they had put forward statements in support of a fraudulent claim. The respondents alleged that R1 and R2, who were husband and wife, had been approached by an acquaintance and, in exchange for a fee, had agreed to advance a claim based on a contrived collision. In the course of the instant proceedings the respondents had disclosed information on the acquaintance who had allegedly formulated the claim. R1 and R2 had two young children, one of which was only 4 months old and still breastfeeding. The claim had been brought in R1's name and she had visited the doctor in order to obtain a medical report in support of the claim. R3 and R4 were R1's parents.

HELD: Although, if the respondents' account was taken to be true, they were mere "foot soldiers", their conduct had to be deterred because it struck at the heart of the justice system and affected the public as a whole in increasing the cost of insurance policies. Against that background and the need to deter anyone from engaging in such serious fraud, there was no alternative but to impose custodial sentences. Nonetheless, the court had to take into account the fact that they had admitted to the fraud and, more significantly, that they had willingly assisted L in disclosing the relevant information. However, R1 had not merely agreed to lend her name but had assisted in the scheme by visiting the doctor. Although her having such young children was a factor to be considered, she must have appreciated that the proceedings were ongoing and that there was a real risk of a custodial sentence. The court would be failing in its duty to the public and in deterring such further conduct if it did not impose an immediate custodial sentence. The court would have imposed a sentence well in excess of 12 months, but in view of her assistance to L with the disclosure of information, a substantial reduction was appropriate: the court ordered R1 to serve six weeks' imprisonment. There was no reason to distinguish R2's conduct, and accordingly he was also sentenced to six weeks' imprisonment. In light of R3 and R4's lesser involvement and the fact that R1 and R2 had led them into the situation, a suspended sentence of six weeks' imprisonment was appropriate for them.

Application granted
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 15:12 - 06 Mar 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

So is this the first documented/benchmark case where an insurance company has taken a policy holder to court for lying, in relation to a claim?

Did they make any attempt to regain any financial reward or was it stopped before a payout?
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iooi
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 06 Mar 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what has happened to the "acquaintance" who it would seem was the root cause of the claim....
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 18:02 - 06 Mar 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

"there was no alternative but to impose custodial sentences"

Don't you just love the way they virtually apologize to the convicts for banging them up.

Just for once I'd like to hear a judge say

"Well sunshine I'd LOVE to sentence you to three consecutive Sundays inside followed by a quick release through a trapdoor, but..."
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 06 Mar 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need to regulate the ambulance chasers too. No-Win-No-Fee
Rabid Legal Services (Name changed to protect the infidel) et al who profit from challenging insurers who, forced to roll over, are paying out to trivial complaints. And most probably to folk who regularly sponge and do not pay into the (our) insurance 'fund'.

This has been brought up at serious government level and from what I seen of proceedings there seems nowt much can be done to stamp out this disgusting/disgraceful 'legal' practice.

The folk who are paid for the claims and the companies who assist in chasing payouts are paid by us.

And it seems likely to get worse. Folk who do not claim are being punished by those who claim for cuts, grazes and ruffled hair.
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 18:43 - 06 Mar 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
We need to regulate the ambulance chasers too. No-Win-No-Fee


This whining, sponging little fecker is the worst.

https://www.underdog.co.uk/images/question_dog.jpg
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 18:55 - 06 Mar 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
We need to regulate the ambulance chasers too. No-Win-No-Fee
Rabid Legal Services (Name changed to protect the infidel) et al who profit from challenging insurers who, forced to roll over, are paying out to trivial complaints. And most probably to folk who regularly sponge and do not pay into the (our) insurance 'fund'.

This has been brought up at serious government level and from what I seen of proceedings there seems nowt much can be done to stamp out this disgusting/disgraceful 'legal' practice.

The folk who are paid for the claims and the companies who assist in chasing payouts are paid by us.

And it seems likely to get worse. Folk who do not claim are being punished by those who claim for cuts, grazes and ruffled hair.


Damn right - and the people who clai they have injuries they do not have. My friend works at a toll crossing and told me of a small rear-end bump where the two in the car in front claimed right away that they couldn't move, so they had the fire brigade there to cut the roof off their car and paramedics put them on spinal boards.

Imagine their feelings when they found that the car that hit them was uninsured..
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 18:58 - 06 Mar 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

DonnyBrago wrote:
Walloper wrote:
We need to regulate the ambulance chasers too. No-Win-No-Fee


This whining, sponging little fecker is the worst.

https://www.underdog.co.uk/images/question_dog.jpg


I hait/hate/haight the voice it is given. In fact, the 'aktor' who does the voice-over deserves a full power kick to the knackereenos just for the voice alone.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 19:01 - 06 Mar 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hang on, no-win-no-fee is the only realistic option for most of us.

The issue is incentivising scammers by maying cash payouts, and insurers who also run hire scams schemes trying to make their money from charging each other £100 a day for hire vehicles, which just gets into a "I need to screw you harder than you're screwing me" spiral.

Solutions:
Claimants get funded treatment and care instead of cash bonanzas.

Prevented insurers from claiming more than fair market value from each other for providing hire vehicles.

That still leaves the issue of completely fake crashes being 'fixed' by Dodgy Dan's House of Repair Invoices, but I'll solve world hunger first then come back to that one.
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T.C
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 06 Mar 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
We need to regulate the ambulance chasers too. No-Win-No-Fee
Rabid Legal Services (Name changed to protect the infidel) et al who profit from challenging insurers who, forced to roll over, are paying out to trivial complaints. And most probably to folk who regularly sponge and do not pay into the (our) insurance 'fund'.


Firstly, it is not the no win no fee issue that causes the problem, the CFA (Conditonal Fee Agreement) simply replaced Legal aid at the start of the century thereby providing access to legal representation for everyone rather than being means tested which was a requirement under legal aid.

It is not so much the law firms (although there are always bad apples in every barrel) the main problems are caused by the claims management firms (of which many here have been keen to promote) who make their money by encouraging the clients they get to exagerate their injuries and charging stupid high prices for the hire costs.

What is happening is that these claims management firms and less honest law firms are not doing proper risk assessments for the purpose of and in line with the ATE insurance requirements, and before long one of them is going to come unstuck big time when they lose a case and their client gets stuck with a massive legal bill because they have breached the conditions of their ATE insurance (assuming of course they have it in the first place)

And because these claims management firms are by and large unregulated (the MoJ are supposed to police them but really don't bother) unlike law firms, and given the fact that since October 2011 with the introduction of ABS (Alternative Business Solutions) meaning that many areas of law can now be handled by non legally qualified people (new career choice for some of the bar room laywers here maybe ? Wink ) the situation is possibly goingto get worse before it gets better.

This is why many of the top line law firms no longer bother with the lower end claims which requires having to use the portal system and fixed costs, and only deal with the serious/catastrophic and difficult cases, and leave the rear end shunts and trips and slips to the conveyor belt merchants.

So don't tar us all with the same brush
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 06 Mar 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you'll find that a lot of it is that people don't know the difference between the law firm and the claim management company. From the perspective of the common person, they seem to be one and the same.

Perhaps you could write a short 'idiot's guide' T.C. and spell out the differences in how they operate and implications of using them? I know you've already posted a fair bit about it but it's spread about a bit a run-down in simple terms would probably make understanding a lot easier for most.

I'm sure it would be a very well-received contribution.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 06 Mar 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="T.C"]
Walloper wrote:
We need to regulate the ambulance chasers too. No-Win-No-Fee

So don't tar us all with the same brush


With respect Sir.

I rely on bona fide legal firms in providing help with justice.

As you note, it's perhaps the unscrupulous few who are spoiling things for the many.

I watched as much of this I as could on telly but the beeb has this too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16175022

edit

and this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14846666
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Last edited by Walloper on 19:34 - 06 Mar 2012; edited 1 time in total
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 06 Mar 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, what happened to the person who masterminded the fraud in the first place?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:21 - 06 Mar 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
Also, what happened to the person who masterminded the fraud in the first place?


Headhunted by HMRC?
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