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promufa
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 26 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: 05:12 - 01 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ve recently been looking into that as well. I guess the xj has H4 bulb sockets, or..? The H4 HIDs i looked at, are all for hi/lo beam so you effectively convert all your lights to HID.

You do get some more range as far as I know - not the 300% that most kits claim though. The cool thing about it is that you dont have the yellowish tint you get from halogens. I would go for something around 4300K or 6000K to get a nice clean white light. I find the higher temperatures a bit too blue.

Unfortunately my conversion is being put on pause for now as I would need 2 kits for the Speed Four's bug eyes, or would a car kit (comes with 2 balasts etc for almost the same price as bike kit with 1 balast) fit just as well, anyone know?
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weasley
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PostPosted: 08:38 - 01 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The biggest problem with HID conversions is that the source of light from the HID bulb is not from the same point as where the filament is in the halogen bulb. The headlight reflector and lens is set up to focus the light from a specific point, ie where the filament is. As a consequence the beam pattern from a HID is rarely how it should be and often results in worse lighting, even though it is brighter and less yellow.

A friend on another forum had a HID in his Thundercat and it recently failed the MoT on beam pattern and output.

This is why aftermarket HIDs are so effing annoying as they dazzle, and why they are illegal.
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WetSparks
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 05 May 2010
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PostPosted: 11:38 - 01 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to state one point. Retrofitting HID to a vehicle is illegal as the reflector is not designed to meet the requirements of a HID lamp. Thats got that out of the way Smile

About 5 years ago I fitted HID to me T100. The lamp uses a H4 bulb (dual filament). HID gets round this problem by using a moving reflector controlled by a solenoid coil, so as you select high beam the reflector moves forward (I think) to shift the beam to a high beam position.

Despite the reflector on the T100 not being designed for HID I found the beam to be pretty much spot on. Oh, make sure your front lens is glass not a plastic, the extra UV from the HID will yellow it real quick. Also the heat output is higher too.

Riding with the HID was great, the extra light output on back lanes was just great, just like riding down there in daylight. Not too good for oncoming vehicles but overall I had very few complaints about the dazzle.

Officially the bike should not pass an MOT with the HID fitted but mine did on two occasions. What stopped me in the end was the reliability of the solenoid system, got through two lamps in 16 months due to the reflector stopping shifting Mad

That was as I said a good few years ago and improvements may have been made in the solenoid action by now. If any one wants a picky of the installation on me T100 I may have a couple that I can dig out and post up Cool
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AlexW
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 01 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

H4 cheap ones suffer from the moving parts as mentioned above failing, So you want a decent kit.

I was lucky enough on my little 125 that the dipped beam light is a projector style, So no issues with beam pattern.

As for a car kit, as long as you dont mind having two of everything and have the space, no issue with that. Its how mine is!

Edit:
I'll post up mine....

This is High beam, normal bulb, Non-projector headlight.
https://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/AW_06/d64b1f6c.jpg

This is Dipped beam, HID kit and projector headlight (Hence why its aimed correctly)
https://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/AW_06/033c37ca.jpg
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defblade
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 01 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aftermarket HIDs are NOT illegal... it's the DoT's belief that requirements for new vehicles should be applied to retro-fits for older ones, but the law doesn't actually say that anywhere.

Interestingly, despite what the DoT says, the new MOT rules don't actually say that aftermarket HIDs are illegal, either... just that, where fitted, washers and levellers must work (note: there are some perfectly legal type-approved cars with OE HIDs but no washers or levellers. They are NOT a requirement in all cases). They (DoT) are trying to make life more dangerous for those of us who have responsibly improved the candles at the front however by suggesting that the regulations stretch further than they do. We may have to suck it up at MOT time and swap back (takes me about 3 minutes...).

You do need to use the right bulb for your lights - the ones for reflector units have a blanking area over one part of the filament to stop the glare. The problem is either use of the wrong bulb, or not adjusting afterwards... and plenty of plain headlights are guilty of not being adjusted correctly, too.

Best setup, however, is when high and low bulbs are seperate (and the low stays on with the high) then low can use HID and high a regular bulb (as HID takes a few seconds to come up to full brightness).

Mine's just passed it's second MOT with low beam HID; no-one flashes me coming the other way. I will continue to use HID so long as I possibly can as the OE lights are lethally poor at night.
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Teflon-Mike
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Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 20:42 - 01 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

promufa wrote:
You do get some more range as far as I know - not the 300% that most kits claim though.

Inverse Square rule - The intensity of light drops the more it's spread out.

Put head-lamp in front of a a garage door, say 5m away, and mark the area lit up, lets say for argument its about 2m wide by 2m high.

Now roll the bike forwards so that the lamps half the distance from the door, 2.5m.

Lamp chucks out a 'cone' of light, so like eating down an ice cream, the cone dioameter is now smaller, and the light will be iluminating an area only 1m by 1m. Half the hight, half the width, but 1/4 the area.

Lamp is chucking out the same amount of light, but landing on an area 1/4 the area, it will be four times as bright.

Turn that round, if you have a 25w bulb, you will need a 100w bulb to light twice the distance at the same intensity.

The HID's we got for the Pup & the Custard Tart, are for a car. Th discharge tube is placed where the filliment of a conventional H4 halogen would be, and it uses an external solenoid shroud to effect dipped beam.

Ie in THEORY ought to be 100% interchangeable with a conventional Halogen H4.

Sales blurb suggests 3x the 'illumination'....as a 55w Halogen, so in theory, ought to give 'almost' twice the range at the same intensity.

But, current draw is only 35w, which is why we used them. (125 Super-Dream was specced to take a 12v45w tungsten! The DT a 6v 25w tungsten! spare charge is not in abundance on either bike, & 55w Halogen would be a rather big 'upgrade'!)

Warnings are you get what you pay for; & cheap kits give grief. Better ones use AC inverters to up the efficiency, and get the light output that an HID can deliver. They also use the solensoid shorud for dip.

Cheap kits use a conventional tungsten or halogen filament for dip, and can actually be worse on dip than standard H4.

The Car type HID's we got, proved to be the same physical size as an H4... but wiring coming out of them presumed clerance behind the bilb for a connector, than we didn't have in a motorbike head-lamp shell; hence we had to cut the shells to make some.

Aparently, there are motorcycle specific HID kits that use slim-line bulbs to fit into smaller lenses and enclosures....

Again, suspect that these may not be 'as' compatible; unless you buy the really expensive ones. But speculating.

As an upgrade to see by, I can only really comment on the improvement seen on the Pup.

That originally had standard 45w tungsten, and might as well have been a glow-worm in a jar.

Upgrade to a 45w 'Halogen' was little better. Used a proprietry aftermarket lense though, which was not that wonderful. 'Adequete' would be being generouse.

Next step; I adapted the original Stanley lense to take an H4 50/55 Halogen. Designed for a tungsten, the beam pattern was rather wide... got a very bright pool right under the front wheel... but 'decent' improvement in the usual beam area, and bit more range. Could rate that one as 'useful'.

NEXT; fitted a headlamp shell from a GS500 designed for an H4 bulb, with same 50/55w H4. MUCH better. Not really much brighter, but much more useful beam pattern.

Lastly, HID in the GS shell. Same beam pattern, with aim 'set' by my MOT man on his machine, range is not 'much' improved.. maybe 50% more, but pool is much brighter.

BUT, more subtle, the brighter 'pool' does make lighting very 'stark' and the cut-off, where with a tungsten you get a 'fade' into the shaddow beyond the pool, you get a much sharper shaddow line.

While in the car, observing Snowie on the bike, I have to say that the whiter light, is far less 'conspiciouse' than you get from a more orange Halogen, or even redder tungsten.

The stark white of the HID, is actually harder to 'see', particvularly in day-light, it's indistinguishable from the flash of sunlight off chrome, or glass, and being SO bright, you JUST see 'White-Out' glare, and can't so easily discern what is actually creating it...

Cars,. of course have two headlamps approximately 5ft apart, and create a distinctive 'silhouette'.

Depending on how 'poor' your lights are to start with; I'm not 100% they are a 'great' upgrade. Adjusted to legal pattern, range is not dramatically improved.

If you are used to 'over-driving' your headlamps, looking into the 'gloom' at the extremity of the lamp's range, you are likely to find it actually harder to see that far, while the brighter pool, in the near vision, creating a higher contrast, could make it more of a 'strain'.

But it's the conspicuity, I think is the bigger bug-bear. SMIDSY already sees but doesn't recognise what he sees; and white-out HID is another reason to not recognise us!

Do draw less power though; which for a bike strugling for amps converted from 6v, running almost 'total loss' electrics, or Snowie's Pup, loaded with heated grips and 'stuff', is helpful.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 01:57 - 02 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main attraction for me, as Teflon_Mike mentioned in his most recent book, is the lower power requirements, rather than the extra light output which puts them into the "suitable for small 125s" category. The main "problem" I see with separate HID and low beams is that they take time to warm up, so you can't "flash" your headlight as effectively. Therefore, IMO, the ideal setup would be HID low beams, halogen high beams (perhaps overwattage), and HID driving lights. Oh, and the other problem is in fog with HID low beams as the whiter light performs worse than the yellow light.
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 12:10 - 02 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
The main "problem" I see with separate HID and low beams is that they take time to warm up

I've heard this a few times; but kit we got, doesn't seem to take any noticeable time to 'warm up'.. flick the switch, it's 'on'..
De-bugging the electrics on the DT this week-end I stuck a Halogen in the connector to test switches, & seemed more 'fade in' from that, than there did 'warm up' on the HID. Confused
So, I don't know. Maybe it's something more pronounced on the cheaper DC ballast systems.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'
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Noxious89123
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 02 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't anyone else get pissed off by being blinded by these damned aftermarket HIDs? I do lots of mileage in the dark and they piss me off no end!

Although I would fancy some decent HIDs myself, so long as they worked flawlessly and without blinding folk.
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m1tch
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 02 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to get the HIDs specifically for reflector headlights which move either a lens or the bulb back and forth to change the beam pattern for the HID bulb.

They can be fitted onto anything legally....as long as the headlight his HID compliant....
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defblade
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 02 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

m1tch wrote:
You need to get the HIDs specifically for reflector headlights which move either a lens or the bulb back and forth to change the beam pattern for the HID bulb.


Not entirely: that's for reflector lights where the same bulb does high and low beam. When you have reflector lights with seperate bulbs for each, then you just need the appropriate "R" rated bulb, which is blacked out where the original halogen bulb would have had the internal metal shield. This keeps the beam pattern right.
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m1tch
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PostPosted: 09:47 - 03 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am planning on upgrading the headlights on my Volvo, I can't use HIDs but I have found that some high performance Halogen bulbs do as good job as HIDs, the main bulbs I have been recomended are Osram nightbreakers and Phillips +50 bulbs, I would have a look at those bulbs before thinking about HIDs as I know those 2 bulbs are 100% road legal.
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WetSparks
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 11:20 - 03 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is some serious HID and LED lighting for a bike (push bike!!).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Homebrew_bicycle_hid_light.jpg

Homebrew HID lighting system consisting of two HID lights (a 10 watt light on the right and a 30 watt HID light on the left. The three smaller lights below the HID lights are 1 watt Luxeon LED lights.
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Beez
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Joined: 17 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 03 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

WetSparks wrote:
This is some serious HID and LED lighting for a bike (push bike!!).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Homebrew_bicycle_hid_light.jpg


Me and a mate damn near went into a hedge at 50 last week due to some twonk on a bicycle with HIDs pointing all over the place coming round the corner, looked like a bloody UFO had landed. Should be banned on bicycles unless fitted by a guy with a brain cell.
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