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Possible driving test for over 65's

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bikertomm
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PostPosted: 20:29 - 06 Apr 2012    Post subject: Possible driving test for over 65's Reply with quote

https://money.aol.co.uk/2012/03/12/boom-in-older-drivers-raises-risk/?ncid=webmail4


I'm fully supportive of a driving test of some sort coming into play for older drivers. The amount that clearly don't have a fucking clue what they are doing on the roads pisses me right off daily.

Some of the comments at the bottom of the article.
https://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg

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Poseidon
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PostPosted: 20:46 - 06 Apr 2012    Post subject: Re: Possible driving test for over 65's Reply with quote

bikertomm wrote:
Some of the comments at the bottom of the article.
*facepalm*

Wow... You weren't kidding!

Personally I think a general aptitude test coupled with eyesight, reaction times and highway code test every 5-10 years would weed out a lot of bad drivers. And I don't just mean for the over 65s.

For the codgers demanding stricter tests for boy racers etc: I don't think making the tests any stricter will have any real effect. I've passed 3 different licences, each more complex than the last and I'm pretty confident I could pass pretty much anything the DSA could throw at me, with the same being true of the 17 year old me, yet I still drove like a nob once I'd passed my test and was allowed out on my own.

For my money, it all harks back to what I was saying about speed cameras on a different thread... They don't work anymore. Replace them with coppers in T5s and have them pulling over people exhibiting below standard driving. Be that travelling at excessive speed (not necessarily breaking the speed limit), incorrect use of signals, poor vehicle control, bad observation etc etc. That'll do more than 7part driving tests with re-sits every 6months and a ban for over 60s on the road omgzorg!!!111eleven
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c-m
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PostPosted: 16:26 - 07 Apr 2012    Post subject: Re: Possible driving test for over 65's Reply with quote

I'd support a capped price for refresher courses every 5 years for all drivers, but then also think that we should have more fine for minor offence. e.g £5-£10 for entering a junction box if your exit isn't clear, or for holding up traffic, or many other annoying things that drivers do, e.g turn without indicating etc..
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recman
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PostPosted: 17:23 - 07 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just take away their bastard flat caps and they'll be fine. Wink
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lorus
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PostPosted: 14:11 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikertomm,perhaps this test you propose should include younger drivers to assess whether they can use their mobiles and text safely whilst driving,they probably can't learn the highway code because half of them can't bloody read,so they are really in the shit when it comes to reading a traffic sign, come on, there are compitent and bad drivers in all age groups,the standard of driving has been deteriorating over the last 10 to 15 years so lets not give the powers that be ammo by poining the finger
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bikertomm
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

lorus wrote:
Bikertomm,perhaps this test you propose should include younger drivers to assess whether they can use their mobiles and text safely whilst driving,they probably can't learn the highway code because half of them can't bloody read,so they are really in the shit when it comes to reading a traffic sign, come on, there are compitent and bad drivers in all age groups,the standard of driving has been deteriorating over the last 10 to 15 years so lets not give the powers that be ammo by poining the finger


Fair point, (except that half of younger drivers can't even read..)

Surely you must agree that the majority of significantly older drivers (70+) standard of driving is a discrace.

And just as a counter argument... I'm a young driver also but I'd never text or be on the phone when I'm driving.

So what we take away from this is that yes, there are bad drivers in every category but personally I would like to see the elderly targeted. Thumbs Up
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.Chris.
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Surely you must agree that the majority of significantly older drivers (70+) standard of driving is a discrace.


Not really. A great many people in their 70s can drive to an acceptable standard, and in my experience are less prone to the agressive driving one often sees of middle-aged blokes in 'hot' saloons. Many also give up of their own accord - all of the older generation of my family voluntarily called it a day when they no longer felt able/safe to drive.

Obviously there are plenty of oldies who shouldn't be driving, and I'm not seeking to defend those who continue to drive when they are manifestly incapable of doing so safely. However, re-testing would be a complete over-reaction. Fortunately that's not what this report is actually suggesting, which would be totally impractical in any case due to the numbers involved.

Not sure that I really want to see any group of drivers 'targeted' for more regulation. It rather stinks of hypocrisy if we as motorcyclists complain about being targeted ourselves by police and regulators, but then demand the same attention be focused onto other motorists.
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lorus
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PostPosted: 18:03 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikertomm,on balance i've seen more inconsiderate and bad driving from young people,ok,I respect your view that it's the elderly that should be targeted, but even so from my own experience i've had more issues with younger drivers,ok,older drivers will make mistakes (don't we all) drive at 30mph on the motorway etc the answer could be that there has to be some form of assessment for ALL drivers to improve driving standards.One area that possibly should be looked at regarding elderly drivers is their health and fitness to drive,failing eyesight,response times,hearing etc,but this could be done by a GP not some government body.Every credit for not using your mobile when driving, you are in a minority Wink I nearly got wiped out on a zebra crossing by a young lass with a child in the back texting away oblivious Mad,I could go on,no doubt you've had some issues with oldie drivers so think we'll agree to disagree :up:Some good points made by Chris,by using the word "targeted" does conjour up thoughts of discrimination.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 18:27 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

No need to target the elderly - enforce testing for everyone every 3-5 years. A simple repeat of the driving test with a grace period where people can continue to drive even if they fail as long as they're training and have booked another test.

Those who are incapable would soon be off the road, it'd also create a load of jobs.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 18:41 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

bikertomm wrote:
And just as a counter argument... I'm a young driver

So what we take away from this is that yes, there are bad drivers in every category but personally I would like to see the elderly targeted. Thumbs Up


Then you wonder why the older generation argue that it should be the reverse.....

Simple answer is limts like bikes now on power output for the just passed the test.
I don't agree with regular testing as such. but having to take the theory test every 10 years would be a good move to ensure ALL drivers are upto date on changes......

One thing that continues to amaze me is the number of drivers who are colour blind (clearly can't tell red from green) can't understand what yellow hatching on a road means & cannot tell the time or understand what day it is...... ( timed bus lanes)

Ultimate fix is hard wired GPS into every car. Which has to be checked every year... Any offence picked up is totted up and above a certain score means a year off the road....
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.Chris.
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Those who are incapable would soon be off the road, it'd also create a load of jobs.


...and probably make quite a few people lose theirs at the same time, if they find themselves unable to drive.

It'd also be quite costly - taking both car and bike tests would cost over £150 if done on a weekday, or over £175 for a weekend. Not something most couldn't afford if pushed, but money (not to mention time) most of us would rather spend on something more productive. That's assuming you pass first time, without any extra training. Obviously the cost would be considerably higher if not.

There's also the problem that a good deal of dangerous driving (in my experience at least) isn't caused so much by lack of basic competence, but by agressive or careless driving. Plenty would be capable of passing the test without issue, but once the examiner was out of sight, would continue to tailgate, pull dodgy overtakes, not bother to indicate, &c.

On balance, the system we have at the moment works quite well enough. The standard of driving in the UK is generally still fairly high, even compared to other developed countries. Regular re-testing is not necessary, and at best would represent a burden financially and in terms of time. At worst, it'd strip people of their mobility, jobs, houses, social lives, and so on.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't need to be a full test, just a quick round the block to identify the 5% or so who need full testing. Heck, just making it to a test centre is probably good enough to weed out most of the spackers.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 20:08 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

RXS100_Chris wrote:
...and probably make quite a few people lose theirs at the same time, if they find themselves unable to drive.


No sympathy for those who could not pass the test, those are the ones who should not be on the road. If it's financial, then I'm sure they could provide the tests for free for those on low incomes. After all, they'd be running a profit from all the extra tests.

RXS100_Chris wrote:
It'd also be quite costly - taking both car and bike tests would cost over £150 if done on a weekday, or over £175 for a weekend. Not something most couldn't afford if pushed, but money (not to mention time) most of us would rather spend on something more productive. That's assuming you pass first time, without any extra training. Obviously the cost would be considerably higher if not.


I thought only the highest license class would need to be re-taken. Would only need to take 30 mins, plus the drive to and from the centre.

RXS100_Chris wrote:
There's also the problem that a good deal of dangerous driving (in my experience at least) isn't caused so much by lack of basic competence, but by agressive or careless driving. Plenty would be capable of passing the test without issue, but once the examiner was out of sight, would continue to tailgate, pull dodgy overtakes, not bother to indicate, &c.


Good point, but focusing on such things would likely improve things to some degree, I don't think many are intentionally dangerous, more carelessly dangerous. I think I became a better driver in the run up and after my bike test.

RXS100_Chris wrote:
On balance, the system we have at the moment works quite well enough. The standard of driving in the UK is generally still fairly high, even compared to other developed countries. Regular re-testing is not necessary, and at best would represent a burden financially and in terms of time. At worst, it'd strip people of their mobility, jobs, houses, social lives, and so on.


It's a minority that cause problems... The young, the old the careless and the unlicensed. By retesting you will make life harder for all of those groups while improving the standard of even those who are competent. Only those who are a problem would lose any of the benefits - especially with a grace period eg. 3 extra months after failing to retest before losing the license.

Most of all, it would reduce the problems that everyone sees whilst being even and fair - no victimizing certain groups.

UK driving is of a high standard, but not as high as say Germany and there's no harm in improving it!

While I'd like to see such an idea, I can't see it happening any time soon. Wait til the google / driverless cars get popular though and it'll be yearly testing for anyone who wants to drive manually!
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Darth
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was sat at a set of lights the other day waiting to make a right turn with a van and car in front, all of us indicating right. There are two lanes-both can be used to go staight ahead but the RH lane obviously backs up with traffic waiting to turn right.

This old codger who i had clocked approaching in my rear view mirror some ways back (he had been indicating right from near enough from the previous junction) pulls up behind me. All good i thinks so looks ahead again - next thing i know he has started going up my left hand side- pushing into traffic which is going straight ahead in the LH lane, passes me, gets level with the van in front and tries pulling right more or less right into the front of my bike. I was just completely dumbfounded. I have no idea what medication he was on but he gestured through the window at me as if i was in the wrong!

I am sure there are plenty of capable older folk on the roads but we definately need a better system to ensure we keep the roads safe from old folks like the one I just mentioned. Its like i also think you should have your license taken away as soon as you buy anything with a VXR badge Thumbs Up
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bikertomm
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PostPosted: 20:30 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some interesting replies, opened my eyes a bit further - I hadn't even considered them.

RXS100_Chris - Your familly are a perfect example in that case then, but obviously with everything you get some with a lack of common sense! Some elderly people probably even know they shouldn't be driving; but still do - which ruins it for everybody.
Also good point about the 'targeting', though I'm sure some would argue motorcyclists are targeted anyway (Restrictions ect) so everyone else should be too! Thumbs Up

Lorus - Pretty much agree with everything you say except the GP bit. Whilst it is a good idea and actually I think this should happen, getting checked for eyesight, hearing ect. They could have the best eyes in the world and not check their mirrors when they are supposed to! So I think an additional little test on the road would be good. Thumbs Up

iooi - Just read back to myself what I wrote and I sure can see your opinion. Completely agree with the theory test malarky too. Oh and the hard wired GPS, can't say I'm a fan of that (Hypocrit maybe!) But would speeding count as an 'offence' Wink

Rogerborg - Agreed - definately should'nt have to be the whole hog, just an examiner that knows what to look for. Very Happy
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 21:30 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'd like to add a flip side here.

I'm 23 - on the older side of the boy-racer category and fit quite the stereotype some of your comments have tarnished.

The issue is young drivers are full of enthusiasm, hormones and fresh independence. Older drivers like to take their time, better arriving slowly than not at all, but that is the problem. It's older drivers that go slow (30mph on an NSL road) that forces younger drivers to go faster, often overtake and sometimes road conditions let the worst happen. It is as much an offence to go slow as it is to go fast - remember that. I'm not reading through a site that says it's a bad idea. The yoof of today drivers have just passed a test proving their abilities, when was the last time a senior driver proved they had what it takes to be privileged and hold a licence? If they're so sure they have nothing to worry about, take the test and prove yourself....

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bazza
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PostPosted: 21:33 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

bikertomm wrote:
And just as a counter argument... I'm a young driver also but I'd never text or be on the phone when I'm driving.


As a counter-counter argument, I have 40 years road experience in various vehicles from one of these:

https://img.alibaba.com/img/pb/198/334/362/362334198_420.jpg

to one of these:

https://arcaneafvs.com/m110/M110_0016.JPG

And you reckon you're the dog's bollocks because you don't text while driving?

Have a fucking word with yourself.
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bikertomm
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PostPosted: 23:08 - 08 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

bazza wrote:
bikertomm wrote:
And just as a counter argument... I'm a young driver also but I'd never text or be on the phone when I'm driving.


As a counter-counter argument, I have 40 years road experience in various vehicles from one of these:

https://img.alibaba.com/img/pb/198/334/362/362334198_420.jpg

to one of these:

https://arcaneafvs.com/m110/M110_0016.JPG

And you reckon you're the dog's bollocks because you don't text while driving?

Have a fucking word with yourself.


Laughing
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Bomberman
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PostPosted: 02:01 - 09 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

bazza wrote:
bikertomm wrote:
And just as a counter argument... I'm a young driver also but I'd never text or be on the phone when I'm driving.


As a counter-counter argument, I have 40 years road experience in various vehicles from one of these:

https://img.alibaba.com/img/pb/198/334/362/362334198_420.jpg

to one of these:

https://arcaneafvs.com/m110/M110_0016.JPG

And you reckon you're the dog's bollocks because you don't text while driving?

Have a fucking word with yourself.

So what? You drive slow to very slow vehicles and want an award? Wink Laughing
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bazza
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 09 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bomberman wrote:
So what? You drive slow to very slow vehicles and want an award? Wink Laughing


Vauxhall Astra was not on that list.
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 11:40 - 09 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

bazza wrote:
bikertomm wrote:
And just as a counter argument... I'm a young driver also but I'd never text or be on the phone when I'm driving.


As a counter-counter argument, I have 40 years road experience in various vehicles from one of these:

Have a fucking word with yourself.
Nicely put.

The vehicles in question matter very little, it's the attitude around 'self regulation'. Old drivers are a danger. Fact.
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bazza
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 09 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

st3v3 wrote:
Old drivers are a danger. Fact.


Steel posts at the side of the road are a danger. Fact.

Your point being..?
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bikertomm
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 09 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steel posts don't pull out in front of you without sufficient time Wink
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bazza
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PostPosted: 13:33 - 09 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

bikertomm wrote:
Steel posts don't pull out in front of you without sufficient time Wink


Oh, right. And that's something done exclusively by over-65s, is it?
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 13:51 - 09 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

bazza wrote:


And you reckon you're the dog's bollocks because you don't text while driving?

Have a fucking word with yourself.


I disagree, I reckon I'm the dogs bollocks because I can text whilst driving. Cool Razz
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