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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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 Posted: 18:46 - 09 May 2012  Post subject: This is why kickstart knows everything... |
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https://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68535
He asks it all elsewhere first (although it was nearl 10 years ago).
Is this our kickstart? If so, did you get your F3000?
I found this as I'm thinking of starting daemonoid racing to help mitigate a bit of tax liability as I begin motorsports.
Anyone have any experience of starting a company for their racing activities? It's tricky to tell but looks like you can claim the vat back on a race car.
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G
The Voice of Reason
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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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| Skudd |
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Skudd
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| Posted: 19:23 - 09 May 2012 Post subject: |
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And there was me thinking it was Google / give an ambiguous answer until the real one comes along then agree with it / asking everyone walking past that he thinks my vaguely know.
Oh well you live and learn. 
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| D O G |
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D O G
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| multijoy |
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multijoy
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| P.addy |
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P.addy
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| Posted: 19:44 - 09 May 2012 Post subject: |
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Can you start your own insurance company? Just be very very safe  |
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| multijoy |
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multijoy
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| G |
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G
The Voice of Reason
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Posted: 20:00 - 09 May 2012  Post subject: Re: This is why kickstart knows everything... |
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Can't you just buy the car privately in the UK?
I did look at doing a similar thing when racing 675s as the entire 'package' had VAT added. Unfortunately despite that it was going to be a good friend's dad (who I'd known for 15 years) that was helping me out with this, the cheque bounced and I ended up down on cash . |
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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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| D O G |
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D O G
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| Kickstart |
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Kickstart
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G
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| Shaft |
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Shaft
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| Fairies attack |
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Fairies attack
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| Paulington |
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Paulington
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| Posted: 22:06 - 10 May 2012 Post subject: Re: This is why kickstart knows everything... |
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| daemonoid wrote: | | D O G wrote: | The govt is not in the business of subsidising rich people's racing, and rightly fucking so. |
I'm not rich, but I do have a plan to turn it into a genuine business, it's not simply a 'jolly good wheeze'...
I already have a sponsor or two lined up.
I thought it was probably a long shot that anyone had tried it, 4-5k would go a long way elsewhere! |
Hardly.
If you want to get into 'proper' racing, I can tell you from experience, not just my own, that 4-5k won't go a long way when it comes to most racing. What car do you even want to buy? VAT at 20% means you're looking at cars of 20-25k? That's bloody expensive for someone who wants to try racing out. All it takes is a fast smash into the wall and bye-bye money. Are you financially stable enough to take that kind of loss?
I know people with £60k of sponsor money sat in the bank that can't race because it's too expensive.
I wouldn't bother starting a company or any of that bollocks. List:
A) Go to several race meetings of classes you wouldn't mind joining, ask some teams if you can poke about in the paddock.
B) Pick the one that most fits your budget.
C) Go do your ARKS/ARDS/whatever to get your racing licence, this can be pretty costly.
D) Buy whatever you need to race, enter the championship, pay all your fees and get going.
Starting a company or whatever will just complicate stuff more than it already is, racing is complicated and racing is pretty hard most times, the last thing you want to be thinking about on the way to the track in your car is: "I wonder if I can claim back the VAT on the cost for the new engine I had to buy because the old one blew up?".
Get going, find yourself, get some experience and then maybe think about it.  .
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"Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul."
Current Vehicles: '89 Kawasaki KDX200, '99 Yamaha XV535, '00 Honda ST1100 Pan-European, '08 Suzuki GSX-R1000, '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GS4 2.0 TDCi, '15 BMW 1 Series 116d Sport Turbo.
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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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| Paulington |
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Paulington
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| Posted: 23:34 - 10 May 2012 Post subject: Re: This is why kickstart knows everything... |
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| daemonoid wrote: | And to paulington, thanks for the 'advice' but not everyone needs talking down to. I was asking for people who had investigated the taxation as I'm serious about it, not some kiddy who's gone oooh racing cars. 4-5k is always going to go far - if I so desired I could get a years racing insurance on a £20k car for that! |
Not talking down to you, just giving you real advice. Lots of people turn up to meetings going "Ooh I wanna' race!" then when they see what's actually involved in it they change their minds, most of them expect to turn up, be cared for all day, win, collect their trophy and go home for absolutely no money.
If you're 'serious' about the taxation, then do it, but I really can't see it making that much of a difference, if it does, fantastic, but my opinion stands, you would be much better off doing what I said in my above post FIRST, and then thinking about the company side of it.
There is so much racing out there in all different cost bands, sort out what you want to race, your budget, then you can figure out how much you will save by running it through a company (whatever that is) and then if you still want to do so, do so, but I think getting the foundations set first, like the list in my post above, is more important if you want to get into racing. It's going to cost you an arm and a leg no matter what. !
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"Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul."
Current Vehicles: '89 Kawasaki KDX200, '99 Yamaha XV535, '00 Honda ST1100 Pan-European, '08 Suzuki GSX-R1000, '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GS4 2.0 TDCi, '15 BMW 1 Series 116d Sport Turbo.
CBT: 27/08/08. Theory: 04/09/09. Module 1: 16/09/09. Module 2: 01/10/09. |
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| D O G |
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D O G
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| Posted: 23:54 - 10 May 2012 Post subject: Re: This is why kickstart knows everything... |
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| G wrote: | | D O G wrote: |
You don't have to exceed the £70k annual turnover level to be VAT registered - you can voluntarily register at any point below that. |
And they can refuse you, I believe? |
Not sure on this initially, so I had a look...
| HMRC wrote: | You can only register for VAT if you're in business. HMRC defines a business as a continuing activity involving getting paid for providing goods or services - in money or another form of payment such as in-kind or barter.
You are in business when, for example:
you earn an income by carrying on a trade, vocation or profession - by being self-employed or through another entity such as a limited company
you provide membership benefits as a club, association or similar body in return for a subscription or other form of payment
you provide certain other activities as a club or other recreational body, charity or other non-profit making body
you charge admission to a premises
To be in business, these activities must have a degree of frequency and scale and be continued over a period of time.
Even if your activities have some or all the characteristics of a business, they may not be considered a business for VAT purposes if they are essentially a recreation or hobby, or an isolated transaction. So if you only make occasional VAT taxable supplies, or your supplies are minimal, it may be that you don't need to register for VAT. The one-off or infrequent sale of your personal belongings at a car boot sale or auction, for example, would fall into this category - but buying goods for resale on a regular basis is definitely a business activity. |
It is that last paragraph which is the kicker.
If the activity involves YOU racing, and constantly losing money (as G indicated), I'd suspect that it would be classed as a 'hobby' - after all a business is intended to generate profits and cash.
I can't remember on the forms whether you have to let the HMRC know what sort of business it is you are entering into, I suspect you do, and that may trigger an automatic inspection.
You'll no doubt get an inspection if you make several net reclaims, then they may decide it is a hobby, and require you to repay the ££. |
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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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| Shaft |
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Shaft
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| Posted: 00:21 - 11 May 2012 Post subject: Re: This is why kickstart knows everything... |
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| daemonoid wrote: | | Shaft wrote: | I'm struggling to see how this is a business, could you elucidate? |
As you want me to elucidate and not elaborate I'll tell you that racing cars have advertising space which can be sold, there are certain prizes and there are secondary activities that allow racers & teams to make further money.
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Oh, I know all about selling advertising space on race cars, I could never seem to quite do enough of it, as can be seen here on one of my cars, just before I went out to qualify for my races on the British Truck GP programme in 1991:
https://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6138/dscf0945a.jpg
I'm also aware of secondary income streams, as I funded my racing through my activities as a race driving instructor, as well as my car prep business.
I was just trying to work out where the business is in buying and running a race car for yourself, sounds like a hobby to me, which you won't get away with for long, as DOG has pointed out.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 14 years, 167 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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