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Alternative to Almax?

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Ichy
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PostPosted: 10:27 - 24 Jun 2012    Post subject: Alternative to Almax? Reply with quote

It pretty much goes without saying that most consider Almax chains to be the best but what are the alternatives? Accepting the fact that you might not have the ultimate in perceived protection what else is worth looking at?

I've used many different makes over the years and have not had a problem, possibly more down to where the bike is parked rather than the quality of the chain or lock. At the moment I have a Krall disc lock which is Thatcham approved and appears to be of good quality but I'm looking for a chain to go with a ground anchor so that I can park the bike outside of my garage.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 24 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm of the opinion that you can spend a tenner on a chain and it will do exactly the same job as spending a few hundreds on the top of the range Almax.

Ultimately all the chain does is make it harder for someone to steal your bike and I believe that if someone is going to have the resources to cut through a chain, should it be cheap, or Almax top of the range stuff, then your bikes a gonner one way or another and its just a matter of time.

All you are doing by adding a chain to your bike is making it "not worth the effort". A potential thief can see with a glance that you have a chain and think, "that will take a few extra minutes, sod it, its not worth it." And then go steal chavy chavs scooter around the corner instead.
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Lord Deckard
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 24 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I visited my local locksmiths https://www.hharrold.co.uk/ and ended up picking up a no brand chain along with a Corbin lock. The chain is through hardened 13mm steel and it would probably be easier for a thief to cut through the bike than the chain. You could anchor a battleship with the thing.
They showed me a chain and lock that a customer had brought back after a thief had tried attacking it. The bloke came home to find his bike still in place, surrounded by broken cutting discs and a pair of broken chain cutters. The lock looked like it had been hot by a bomb but the key still worked.
I was sold Laughing
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multijoy
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PostPosted: 10:58 - 24 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

pragmasis is the other Almax. They do some funky locking rods (they call anti-pinch pins) that mean you can halve the length of chain you use.

https://www.torc-anchors.com/
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Ichy
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PostPosted: 11:03 - 24 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
I'm of the opinion that you can spend a tenner on a chain and it will do exactly the same job as spending a few hundreds on the top of the range Almax.


I don't agree 100% but I do understand the sentiment. Yes some will be put off by the chain but others will still give it a go. If it can cope for 15-20 seconds, which feels longer than you might think, then it has done well.
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Ichy
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PostPosted: 11:05 - 24 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

multijoy wrote:
pragmasis is the other Almax. They do some funky locking rods (they call anti-pinch pins) that mean you can halve the length of chain you use.

https://www.torc-anchors.com/


Interesting but you're still talking nearly £200. I wonder which is the better of the two?
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.....
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PostPosted: 11:08 - 24 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

multijoy wrote:
pragmasis is the other Almax. They do some funky locking rods (they call anti-pinch pins) that mean you can halve the length of chain you use.

https://www.torc-anchors.com/


Yep these are good, got a full set up at the moment, including the pin. I did a bit of a review a while back here.

The anti pinch pin is good as it means I can lock my bike through the frame whereas the chain couldn't fit through.
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Seb
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 24 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind that a quality Pragmasis or Almax chain is going to need some skilled technique or serious power tools as well as a good bit of time to chew through, a cheapo chinese chain is little more than a speed bump to pretty much anyone with a half decent set of croppers. Worth keeping in mind if you've got the sort of bike that's likely to get scoped out, whilst my Almax is borderline a waste of time on the old XJR, I wouldn't trust anything less on some of the more desirable bikes I've had.
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 06:40 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
I'm of the opinion that you can spend a tenner on a chain and it will do exactly the same job as spending a few hundreds on the top of the range Almax.

This is just plain wrong. A chain that can be cut in 5 seconds with nothing more than cheap and easily concealed bolt croppers is obviously less protection than a chain that takes an expensive angle grinder a while to cut through (with the associated sound & light show).

"Resources to cut through a chain" differ massively depending on the chain -- it's not all one thing.

It's the usual simplistic "if they want it they'll have it" argument. While technically correct, it's not an excuse to not bother getting the best security as the more potential hassle you cause the thief the greater the deterrent effect.
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 06:45 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Deckard wrote:
I visited my local locksmiths https://www.hharrold.co.uk/ and ended up picking up a no brand chain along with a Corbin lock. The chain is through hardened 13mm steel


A 13mm chain can be cut in seconds by heavy-duty bolt croppers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InZ2g2EbYsk&list=UUyt7Z_XIg0lXByGpwhhwO3w&index=9&feature=plcp

You need a chain with 16mm links minimum for one simple reason - they are too thick to fit properly into the jaws of even the heaviest duty manual croppers. You don't want it to be through-hardened either as it makes it easy to smash with a sledgehammer.

By reducing the choice and increasing the cost of the equipment needed to defeat your security you reduce the number of potential thieves.
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Aperf
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PostPosted: 07:48 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those pinch pins look useful.
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Aperf
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PostPosted: 07:48 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those pinch pins look useful.
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WannaBeDude
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PostPosted: 08:07 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thing is, powertools, even batterry ones can be had nowadays for little cost, this cropping malarkey is old hat nowadays - imo.

For less cash - same thing ..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=almax&_sacat=See-All-Categories
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 09:34 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

covdude wrote:
Thing is, powertools, even batterry ones can be had nowadays for little cost, this cropping malarkey is old hat nowadays - imo.

For less cash - same thing ..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=almax&_sacat=See-All-Categories


It's not the cost, it is the time and noise. Power tools would be loud and slow, croppers quick and quiet.
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WannaBeDude
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PostPosted: 09:54 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

They wont give a fuck if they have a white van and dodgy plates, there plough through the chain and be gone in 1 min or less. imo
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem I have with "uncroppable" chains is that if you're not careful the weakest link in your security becomes your landing window.
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WannaBeDude
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PostPosted: 10:00 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

angryjonny wrote:
The problem I have with "uncroppable" chains is that if you're not careful the weakest link in your security becomes your landing window.


Don't leave keys lying about, ditch key holders ... have a weopen to hand, that's all you can do tbf ...

Dogs can put off some aswell.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 10:05 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

covdude wrote:
Don't leave keys lying about, ditch key holders ... have a weopen to hand, that's all you can do tbf ...

Dogs can put off some aswell.

Or... do leave keys lying about. If someone's keen enough on your bike to break into your house to get it, maybe it's best at that point they get what they want rather than turning the place upside down looking for them. Maybe.

That said, most bike thieves seem to prefer to be in and out like a shadow leaving nought but a bike shaped gap behind them. Breaking in and ransacking a house doesn't sit well with that.
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 17:04 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

If breaking into your house (with you in it) really looks that attractive maybe you should have a think about your home security as well as your bike security ...
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

LordShaftesbury wrote:
Lord Deckard wrote:
I visited my local locksmiths https://www.hharrold.co.uk/ and ended up picking up a no brand chain along with a Corbin lock. The chain is through hardened 13mm steel


A 13mm chain can be cut in seconds by heavy-duty bolt croppers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InZ2g2EbYsk&list=UUyt7Z_XIg0lXByGpwhhwO3w&index=9&feature=plcp

You need a chain with 16mm links minimum for one simple reason - they are too thick to fit properly into the jaws of even the heaviest duty manual croppers. You don't want it to be through-hardened either as it makes it easy to smash with a sledgehammer.

By reducing the choice and increasing the cost of the equipment needed to defeat your security you reduce the number of potential thieves.


Fair enough. But your forgetting the first thing the chain is for. It is to act as a visual deterent first and foremost and in todays society if they want your bike then they will have it regardless of what kind of chain you attach. The only way the extra tough super dooper chains will make a different is if you can actually chain your bike to something, which many people cannot do. Any professional outfit with the afore mentioned bolt croppers etc will just stick the bike into a van regardless of what chain is on it.

Toffee chain or tough chain makes little odds if your bike is in someones van.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
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Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 17:39 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
if they want your bike then they will have it

What did I just say about this tired old saying? It gets trotted out every time someone wants to justify skimping on security.

The scrotes that stole my bike didn't have a van. The scrotes that stole Dunc's bike didn't have a van.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjA2MejOlQ&list=UUCn6x6-31Fv9Zn0cP2gsUKw&index=2&feature=plcp

You say the professional bike thieves could still take it, sure they could, but if you can reduce the total number of thieves that can take it you reduce the chances of it being taken.

This is my bike that was stolen. Note the shitty little chain on the front wheel (which at the time seemed pretty beefy to me). A bunch of teenage scrotes went through it in what must have been seconds, and in silence, as the bike sat outside my living room window. If I had had a proper chain on it (or an immobiliser, or a good disc lock) it would not have been stolen by them.

They didn't have angle grinders or hydraulic pincers or vans or liquid nitrogen or stealth helicopters, because they're scrotes.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 17:51 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

As said. Its not a tired saying as you proved. They wanted Dunks bike. They wanted yours. Oddly enough I have a disc lock, Immobiliser alarm and a "Not" almax chain and my bike hasnt been nicked. Considering it parks outside and I am unable to chain it to anything.

Perhaps my chain and disc lock do its job. Perhaps it is just the visual detterant. Or perhaps its just no one likes my bike. Who knows. Because its sure as hell not the area I live in as a few on here who know where I live will testify (swampy).
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
As said. Its not a tired saying as you proved. They wanted Dunks bike. They wanted yours.

No it proves the opposite - if I'd had decent security the same scrotes would still have wanted it, but not had it.

Ultimately the biggest problem the saying has is that it's an excuse to not bother.
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Aperf
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

LordShaftesbury wrote:
Ultimately the biggest problem the saying has is that it's an excuse to not bother.


Yup. The argument that "if theyll want it theyll have it therefore its pointless to buy decent security" is rediculous.

Ive got an Almax 3, and Almax 4, two Squire SS locks, an Oxford Monster (fucking joke that is, I would never, ever, touch anything labelled Oxford again when it comes to security), two ground anchors, a smoke machine and a monitored alarm.

Im going to add a couple of pinch-pins and even then its not enough.
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WannaBeDude
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PostPosted: 18:56 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

But there's no smoke without fire lol please elabororate on smoke, and state if youR nice bike is garaged or not ta Thumbs Up
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