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chris-red
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Cyclist attitudes. Reply with quote

Reading about the Zil Lanes in under on the beeb and they posted this tweet from some idiot.

Quote:
"If London can give up some road lanes for the Olympics, it can give them up for good. After the Games, turn them into cycle lanes."


I often see this kind of nonsense coming from various cyclists aswell as call from some to ban all motorized traffic in London.

This sort of thing gets on my Tits are well I think the quote
Quote:
In his company's magazine, Add Lib, Addison Lee chairman John Griffin sparked widespread anger by suggesting that cyclist death and injury is inevitable as cyclist numbers increase, and is largely the fault of untrained cyclists.


Is fair and app. I know 3 people hurt cycling up London, ALL cycling up the inside of Buses/HGVS, which even I, having cycled in London once know is a big no no. 90% of them even have warning signs on the back of them.

https://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2012/apr/24/addison-lee-protest-boycott-chairman
https://www.eta.co.uk/2012/07/18/ban-cars-every-sunday-make-way-bicycles

Take the Girl that hit Serendipity too, another moron plugged into an ipod, with no training breaking the law cuasing an accident which she will never pay for.

Anyway back on point after my mini rant, I feel an easy comparison can be drawn between us and cyclists. Too me it would seem they have vastly more extremist views as to how they should be treated compared to us. You never her bikers coming out with that kind of crap, we just deal with it. Why do cyclists feel like the world owes them something? Comparatively they should be given less seeing as they pay no road tax.

I can't believe there was outrage that they aren't allowed in the Olympic lanes either. The lanes design is to give them the Olympic crew fast road travel in the capital. Being stuck behind a cyclist doing 10-20mph is not conducive to this, allowing motorbikes would be a better idea as there footprint is similar to a cycle yet they have the speed to not be in the way. Did bikers get up in arms about this despite being a more logical choice to be allowed in the lanes, no, oh well that sucks I'm changing my route to work (which today was actually much quicker than before strangely).

All the Zil Lanes I have seen have been in the outside lane to where cycles rarely go so what's the big deal, they are affected less than the rest of us.

We put both up with the same shit from blind drivers and a quick glance at stats that show hospital admission due to road accidents in London shows that we have a similar chance of ending up in hospital - Cyclists 231, Motorcyclists 236.

I have no problem with cyclists in London in general, I don;t think they should be off the road, I do think Insurance and number plates are a good idea, but I see that is impracticable and never going to happen. I just think their horse is VERY high, with an unstable base.

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UnknownStuntm...
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PostPosted: 14:16 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Re: Cyclist attitudes. Reply with quote

There are cockends all over the place.

Some have briefcases, some own companies, some ride pushbikes and some have motorbikes.

Meh.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Re: Cyclist attitudes. Reply with quote

UnknownStuntman wrote:
There are cockends all over the place.

Some have briefcases, some own companies, some ride pushbikes and some have motorbikes.

Meh.


Agreed however the organised political side of cyclists seems a lot more extreme than 'ours' when I feel we are similar.
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UnknownStuntm...
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, the cyclist brigade has a loud mouthpiece. But I reckon most people see it for what it is. Crusty Jugglers with a big mouth.

In the real world, it's my opinion there are two types of cyclist, those that want to cycle, and those that have to cycle. And it's only those that want to cycle who get all militant and shouty. The "untrained cyclist" has no desire to better his or her skills on the saddle and hence will quietly and carelessly whistle through most of whatever changes anyone is asking or screaming for.

There's no answer, hence my big ol' Meh up above.
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Amreet
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PostPosted: 14:45 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

exactly. Every group of road users has a group of cocks that end up leading to hatred from other road users. There are plenty of cyclists i come across that do more obs than some bikers I see, but then there are also the brain dead ipod zombies with no idea what's going on around them.

I think the cycle lane situation in London is absurd, lots of cycle lanes there are actually incredibly dangerous, some that cross roundabouts with no give way markings etc. LOADS that put the cyclist traffic directly in the door zone, all this leads to is the clever cyclists getting shit for trying not to die by avoiding riding in the part of the road where the healthy majority of cyclist fatalities occur, despite it being marked as a cycle lane.
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KLR600
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PostPosted: 16:15 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Re: Cyclist attitudes. Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
Take the Girl that hit Serendipity too, another moron plugged into an ipod, with no training breaking the law cuasing an accident which she will never pay for.


There's been plenty of threads on here about bikers using earphones to listen to music whilst riding. There's not much difference between someone on L's fresh from a CBT riding along with no experience and a cyclist doing it. Sure the motorcyclist should be insured but then a lot of cyclists have insurance or you can sometimes claim from their house insurance if they have any.

chris-red wrote:
Did bikers get up in arms about this despite being a more logical choice to be allowed in the lanes, no


There's been plenty of moaning in general about that too on this website which is a biker orientated website.

There's some irony in you making a moaning thread about cyclists who should stop moaning.

As has been pointed out there's idiots in every category of road user. We as motorcyclists often get a bad rap and probably understand greater than most road users what it's like to feel the prejudice against us for our choice of transport yet it seems that a few motorcyclists really have a hard time not being extremely judgemental towards other road users.

I cycle all over Manchester as it's much quicker than public transport or a motorbike as even with filtering if you get to a set of lights at just the wrong sequence time it can take forever to ride down one street. As a cyclist I often get bullied on the road by ignorant drivers despite sticking to cycle lanes where possible, riding defensively as I would on my motorbike and generally trying not to make a nuisance out of myself but I just let it go as I'm in not going to win in an altercation between a car and a bicycle.
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ninjagirl76
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PostPosted: 16:22 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dilligaf_NO wrote:

3) to stupid to be given a driving license (like that one with the ipod, sod letting her behind the wheel of a car or bars of a motorcycle)


This covers the vast majority of cyclists i have to avoid running over in sheffield.. ignorant clueless fuckers who don't think the highway code or traffic lights apply to them
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Nai
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PostPosted: 16:23 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dilligaf_NO wrote:
well you see, cyclists in london fall into 2 categories
--
so sure they'll kick up a stink and a fuss, just plough over them on ur way to work.


Motorcyclists can be lumped into 2 categories too right? Them wankers on scooters that cut you up and drive like nutters and the bastards that go up bus lanes like they are racing tracks, fucking motorcyclists... Am'I'right?

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Run 'em all down Thumbs Up


Jesus your a bell end...

I fecking hate sweeping generalisations.
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snikks
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PostPosted: 16:25 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Re: Cyclist attitudes. Reply with quote

KLR600 wrote:

I cycle all over Manchester as it's much quicker than public transport or a motorbike as even with filtering if you get to a set of lights at just the wrong sequence time it can take forever to ride down one street.


Those lights? when they're red, they apply to cyclists too. So it shouldn't be any quicker unless you're jumping them.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 16:26 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Re: Cyclist attitudes. Reply with quote

KLR600 wrote:


There's been plenty of threads on here about bikers using earphones to listen to music whilst riding. There's not much difference between someone on L's fresh from a CBT riding along with no experience and a cyclist doing it. Sure the motorcyclist should be insured but then a lot of cyclists have insurance or you can sometimes claim from their house insurance if they have any.


The Difference is how many of those will go through a red light cause ££££ of damage and not pay for it, I'm not against people listening to music whilst biking I do it sometimes. However if you are going to ride through redlights without even looking at oncoming traffic maybe you should consider not doing it.


KLR600 wrote:

There's been plenty of moaning in general about that too on this website which is a biker orientated website.

There's some irony in you making a moaning thread about cyclists who should stop moaning.



This didn't mean to be a moan thread I just wondered why the cyclist groups have more extreme views than the Motorcycle groups considering how similar we are.


KLR600 wrote:

I cycle all over Manchester as it's much quicker than public transport or a motorbike as even with filtering if you get to a set of lights at just the wrong sequence time it can take forever to ride down one street.


Why should the lights effect your journey less as a cyclist than a motorcyclist?
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Nai
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PostPosted: 16:27 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

On cyclists, I reckon you should have to take some sort of CBT type day class before you can cycle on the road, which can be removed similar to a license. Not only to prevent bad cycling for other road users, but for some cyclists own safety.

I managed 14 years of 200 mile a week though London with 1-2 accidents in all that time. I am baffled as to how some folk manage an accident a week.

Same as some motorcyclists I guess. Some folk just delude themselves into how good they are.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nai wrote:
On cyclists, I reckon you should have to take some sort of CBT type day class before you can cycle on the road, which can be removed similar to a license. Not only to prevent bad cycling for other road users, but for some cyclists own safety.

I managed 14 years of 200 mile a week though London with 1-2 accidents in all that time. I am baffled as to how some folk manage an accident a week.

Same as some motorcyclists I guess. Some folk just delude themselves into how good they are.


It would be ideal if cyclist's had to pass some kind of test but it will never happen.
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Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
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Minty
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PostPosted: 16:31 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a cyclist and have been abused by other cyclists that have been caught out by me actually stopping at red lights.

I cycle the same as I ride me mo'bike. Follow the rules of the road*












*except maybe speed limits.
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Alpha-9
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PostPosted: 16:33 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nai wrote:

I fecking hate sweeping generalisations.


I can't help hating brooms. Embarassed

I'm only kidding of course, I just think cyclists look silly in all their lycra shit and a seat rammed as far up their arse as they could get it
I think cyclists should stick to pavements unless they're in a group

Because fuck it
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Nai
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PostPosted: 16:35 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
It would be ideal if cyclist's had to pass some kind of test but it will never happen.


Think tests are a bit over the top for simple push bikes. As said though, at the very least, basic training days seem more ideal.
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Alpha-9
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nai wrote:
chris-red wrote:
It would be ideal if cyclist's had to pass some kind of test but it will never happen.


Think tests are a bit over the top for simple push bikes. As said though, at the very least, basic training days seem more ideal.


Don't they still do the cyclist thing for kids in school? I remember being took out in a group at a young age with a load of other kids on hi-vises going through road safety etc.
Let me guess, scrapped for the health and safety nerds
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Minty
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
It would be ideal if cyclist's had to pass some kind of test but it will never happen.


Ahem, Tut Tut I passed my Cycling Proficiency aged 9 and have the certificate to prove it. My mum framed it an'all. Dance!
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nai wrote:
chris-red wrote:
It would be ideal if cyclist's had to pass some kind of test but it will never happen.


Think tests are a bit over the top for simple push bikes. As said though, at the very least, basic training days seem more ideal.


Whatever still wil never happen. Cycling is good bikes are green yo.
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
Nai wrote:
...some sort of CBT type day class before you can cycle on the road...

It would be ideal if cyclist's had to pass some kind of test but it will never happen.


Thinking

https://www.badgecollectorscircle.co.uk/assets/badges/user/18_1303910255_5381_300_300.JPG

I do think cyclists should have at least public liability insurance if over 16/18.

I think the cyclist don't give a damn about the law was nicely illustrated in the Top Gear race in London where Hammond was on a bike (Captain Slow in car, Clarkson in a boat). Hammond, die to health and safety and the law abiding BBC, was made to wait at every red light. You just know that doesn't happen (Serendipity being hit proves the point), yet in theory it should.

Ask any of the cycling organisations why they don't obey the laws of the road and I bet you just get shouted at with an excuse like "it's not safe" Shocked So why are you riding in the first place? Rolling Eyes
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snikks
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PostPosted: 16:46 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpha-9 wrote:

Don't they still do the cyclist thing for kids in school? I remember being took out in a group at a young age with a load of other kids on hi-vises going through road safety etc.
Let me guess, scrapped for the health and safety nerds


They still do it, I know because the local school runs theirs directly outside my front door. It's a very good idea, it should be compulsory for anyone riding a bicycle (perhaps as a one-day course for adults, on your own bikes, costing about £40? a bit like CBT as has been said), and the police should be able to demand the document proving it's been done, and confiscate the doc necessitating a further course. Failure to produce the doc should result in bicycle confiscation. Children under say, 14, should be allowed to ride on the pavement and be exempt as long as they do so. In Oxford at least I've seen the police stop people riding on the pavement, or at night without lights, or jumping lights. The usual response is to blatantly just wait for the copper to move on, then carry on their merry way. At least this way they'd have a consequence to their actions. It'll never happen of course, but if I ruled the world.. *sigh*
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jackw72
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PostPosted: 16:47 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a cyclist who often goes through red lights and I understand that it causes anger from some people, the problem is there are people like that fuck-wit that knocked down serendipity who need to be culled and there are people who intelligently look at a situation like that, if that were you or I on a motorcycle we would slow for the end of the lorry and check round the rear of it not just poodle along as if there is not a care in the world. That behaviour will ultimately get you squashed. Motor or not.

If motorcycles were given the power to go through red lights then I would imagine 99% of the time it would be easy to judge whether it was safe to go or not. When you get to know the traffic lights and their order of working it becomes very easy to look for danger from one direction and it also makes it easy on a cycle to avoid that danger as a bicycle is a tiny target to hit in a car/bike.

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KLR600
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PostPosted: 16:48 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha ha, love how people just assume I'm jumping reds because I said cycling was quicker without actually thinking that perhaps there are cycle lanes that run on pavements, cycle lanes that have different light sequences to the road traffic lights (I can show you plenty of those in Manchester), have cycle routes that go through underpasses/over bridges or that to avoid all of those bad sequence traffic lights on a motorbike it's a much longer journey going on ring roads and bypasses. I can cycle from my house 4 miles right into the city centre on canal tow-paths as well. It's a very direct, straight and quick route and the paths are nice and wide so there's plenty of room for everyone.

This is exactly the kind of thing I mean about motorcyclists being the first to moan about prejudices against them but are also front of the queue to dish them out.

I'm not going to stick up for the cyclists who think that it's fine to jump reds all the time or that they have some kind of upper hand because they're on a bike because they all do my head in too and then I get lumped in with them.

As a user of both forms of transport regularly I can see both sides of the coin and understand all the various arguments. I agree that there should be some kind of test (and I don't mean a cycling proficieny course at 11 years old in primary school Laughing ) as I've seen some shockingly bad cycling since being in Manchester. There are plenty of totally blind/clueless students cycling up and down Oxford road that somehow haven't been killed by just pulling out in front of buses and taxis yet and it's only a matter of time before something bad happens there if it hasn't happened already. But then I also like the flexibility of cycling and the obvious cost benefits of cycling over motoring or public transport.

chris-red wrote:
This didn't mean to be a moan thread I just wondered why the cyclist groups have more extreme views than the Motorcycle groups considering how similar we are.


I wouldn't necessarily say they do. I guess there's a lot more cyclists than motorcyclists and a lot more governmental support and schemes for cyclists so perhaps there's just a higher volume of people making their views public. There's been plenty of similar public airings of motorcycle attitudes even quite recently with the go slow things on the motorways and with all this new licensing legislation coming in.
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 16:54 - 25 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

jackw72 wrote:
I am a cyclist who often goes through red lights ...
If motorcycles were given the power to go through red lights then I would imagine 99% of the time it would be easy to judge whether it was safe to go or not...

Whatever happened to the lobby for allowing left turn at a red traffic light?

Sorry that's off-topic but it was a thought prompted by this thread.
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