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Nearly spread across the front of a 4x4 towing a caravan.

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Srengam
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Nearly spread across the front of a 4x4 towing a caravan. Reply with quote

Last Friday on my way to work, ideal riding roads, very popular on Sundays in North Wales.

I follow the road around a left hand corner to see a 4x4 towing a caravan coming straight at me in my lane. He was overtaking a cyclist but had nowhere to go as the cyclist was directly on his left, and infront of him was a little red car who was able to complete his overtaking before the right hand corner I was heading for.

To summerise, there was a 4x4 towing a caravan driving around a series of blind bends on the wrong side of the road. He couldn't get in as there was a cyclist there, nor could he get infront of the cyclist because there was a car there.

All I could do was aim to the left of him and hope I missed the grass. (I figured 60mph into a field was better than 120mph impact speed to a 4x4 with a caravan behind it). Anyway, the bike fit through but if I was in the car we'd have had a head on without any doubt.

I was tempted to turn around and go after him but figured with brown adrenaline speeding through my pants I was more like to have an accident chasing him.

Anyway, he was towing a caravan so was probably planning a weekend away, his wife was next to him so I'm sure he got ranted at about it enough to have his weekend spoiled!

Rant over.
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goto10
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man in 4x4:
"Did you see how fast that kitten killing motorcyclist was going?! They should be banned"
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Timmeh
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PostPosted: 19:40 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.bbc.co.uk/coventry/features/stories/2004/01/images/gypsy-burning-cravan-270.jpg
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AlexW
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PostPosted: 19:54 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

60mph head on, is 60mph impact, not 120mph.

Caravaners suck, and I fit towbars.
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Srengam
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PostPosted: 20:27 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexW wrote:
60mph head on, is 60mph impact, not 120mph.

Caravaners suck, and I fit towbars.


If I'm doing 60mph and he's doing 60mph . . . . . Rolling Eyes
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symonh2000
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PostPosted: 20:27 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a similar thing when I was in my car a couple of months back

Twisty road, went around a corner and there was a car in my lane overtaking a cyclist.

Luckily I was under the speed limit, if not we would have had a head-on.


There are some real idiots about, more so in recent years so it seems. Sad
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Nick 50
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PostPosted: 20:28 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexW wrote:
60mph head on, is 60mph impact, not 120mph.

Caravaners suck, and I fit towbars.


Someone doing 60mph hitting someone going 60mph in the opposite direction is equal to hitting a solid at 120mph
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symonh2000
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PostPosted: 20:33 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Srengam wrote:
AlexW wrote:
60mph head on, is 60mph impact, not 120mph.

Caravaners suck, and I fit towbars.


If I'm doing 60mph and he's doing 60mph . . . . . Rolling Eyes


I think you are both right to a degree. If two identical cars hit each other head on at 60mph, then the combined impact is still 60mph because the energy is dissapated 50:50.

However a car is a lot heavier than a bike, so depending on the weight ratios the effective impact speed will be higher for the lighter vehicle and lower for the heavier one.


Would need to do more research to confirm this though, but I am pretty sure it works something like that.
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Blackwolf
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick 50 wrote:
AlexW wrote:
60mph head on, is 60mph impact, not 120mph.

Caravaners suck, and I fit towbars.


Someone doing 60mph hitting someone going 60mph in the opposite direction is equal to hitting a solid at 120mph


Have a read of Newtons 3rd law Wink
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symonh2000
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PostPosted: 20:37 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here ya go.

2 cars doing 60mph hitting each other is the same as one car hitting a concrete wall at 60mph.

https://warp.povusers.org/grrr/collisionmath.html
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Srengam
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I'm wrong then (I apologise) . . . . .

But, . . . a motorcycle hitting a 4x4 towing a caravan sort of swings it to meet in the middle somewhere.
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Nick 50
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PostPosted: 20:47 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stand corrected and really should know better Embarassed

Though hitting a wall on a 200kg motorcycle is not comparable to hitting a 4x4 towing a caravan at the same speed.
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Daytona Paul
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

How wide was the road?

Golden Rule is you need to be able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear on your side of the road.

If, however, it is a single track road you need to be able to stop in half the distance you can see to be clear (Guess why?).

Popular summer roads, with tourists who might not know the area, it might be prudent to slow down anyway!

Rogerborg might disagree with this post but I can categorically state that after riding for 40+ years and living in a tourist area, I practice what I preach Very Happy
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defblade
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PostPosted: 21:23 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember, when you see that cyclist, there'll be some twat behind them trying to overtake, no matter how stupid that would be.
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Andrew122
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://auto-fail.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Demotivational-caravan-pavement-hates-it.jpg
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:56 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Srengam wrote:
I guess I'm wrong then (I apologise) . . . . .

It gave me a brain ouchie too until they Mythbusted it. Makes more sense when you actually see the cars smashed up. Smile
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goto10
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PostPosted: 22:46 - 07 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexW wrote:
60mph head on, is 60mph impact, not 120mph.

Caravaners suck, and I fit towbars.


They're generally OK, no worse than your average cager, in fact I'd go as far as to say better - aside from the occasional rolling roadblock they're far more aware of their surroundings than the average sales-rep-on-his-mobile.
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keggyhander
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PostPosted: 00:39 - 08 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

If both are doing 60mph, then it's still a 120mph closing speed.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 07:36 - 08 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

keggyhander wrote:
If both are doing 60mph, then it's still a 120mph closing speed.

But for each car, it's equivalent to hitting a wall at 60mph.

See for yourself.

That only applies for two essentially equal cars though. Bike versus caravan rig is going to come out worse for the bike, i.e. that's like hitting a wall at 60... and then having the wall fall on you. Wink
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Flemy
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PostPosted: 08:18 - 08 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick 50 wrote:
AlexW wrote:
60mph head on, is 60mph impact, not 120mph.

Caravaners suck, and I fit towbars.


Someone doing 60mph hitting someone going 60mph in the opposite direction is equal to hitting a solid at 120mph


Not true, this debate has been had on here before and shit got real!
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shereen
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 08 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

symonh2000 wrote:


I think you are both right to a degree. If two identical cars hit each other head on at 60mph, then the combined impact is still 60mph because the energy is dissapated 50:50.

However a car is a lot heavier than a bike, so depending on the weight ratios the effective impact speed will be higher for the lighter vehicle and lower for the heavier one.


Would need to do more research to confirm this though, but I am pretty sure it works something like that.


Sorry for neg rating this post - I had neg rated a previous post and must have forgotten to change it (although I swear I changed it).

however you are a bit of a cock for unjustifiably neg rating a completely unrelated post of mine out of spite. Rolling Eyes

At least you have a reason now Wink
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symonh2000
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PostPosted: 12:13 - 08 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry about that mate, I didn't realise you had done it by accident.

Have a good Karma on that post to make up for it. Thumbs Up
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mfactor
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PostPosted: 12:20 - 08 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

4 x 4 owners get an extra section in the owners manual....


"How to drive like a complete prick"


The guys who drive those gigantic big double cab things only get that section Very Happy
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Irn-Bru
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PostPosted: 12:21 - 08 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was behind a VW transport van yesterday that was straight lining all the corners on a country road, to the point I couldn't safely over take until a long straight came along. Would be a bit hairy to be coming the other way towards him, bike or not.
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promufa
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PostPosted: 12:35 - 08 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

symonh2000 wrote:
Here ya go.

2 cars doing 60mph hitting each other is the same as one car hitting a concrete wall at 60mph.

https://warp.povusers.org/grrr/collisionmath.html


What this website does not really explain is that:
The forces exerted on the two vehicles (severity) are equivalent to a 60mph collision with an immovable object. The relative speed of the collision IS however 120mph.
The fact of the matter is that speed is only one factor in the equation. The discrepancy comes from the theoretically infinite mass of the immovable object and its zero elasticity.

If that makes any sense
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