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| newtoriding |
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newtoriding
L Plate Warrior
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| U_W v2.0 |
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U_W v2.0
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| arry |
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arry
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| Louise |
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Louise
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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 Posted: 00:34 - 17 Aug 2012  Post subject: Re: Selling my bike and the insurance |
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| arry wrote: | Not telling your insurance company is effectively non disclosure, ie fraud. |
Nope.
Fraud = Profit by Deception.
It would only be 'fraud' if you sold the bike, THEN made a claim against the policy attempting to deceive the insurance company that the bike had been stolen!
Technically you have bought an annual motorcycle policy, and paid for that policy 'up-front' via a credit agreement, which you are paying off by installment.
As far as the policy is concerned, it provides 'cover'... up to you if you utilise that cover.... for instance I may have a policy that covers two bikes, and never ride one of them, or I may have a 6000 mile annual mileage allowance and only use 600 miles of it, or I could have two named riders and and second rider never rides the bike; I may have a free 'green-card' with the policy but never go abroad, or I might have inclusive breakdown, but be covered by a personal AA membership.....
NOTHING says you HAVE to use something you pay for.
Yes; its a 'non-disclosure', but all that does is invalidate cover.... ie you cant claim against the policy.... as you don't have the bike.... you cant claim ANYWAY!
UNLESS you attempt to perpetrate a fraud... and MAKE a claim!
Only 'bug-bear' and reason WHY they would try ans SUGGEST that you are breaking the law, which at MOST is merely 'breach of contract'.....
Is that if you maintain the policy, then the BIKE will be logged as being 'insured' on the MID..... so poor plod might have to do some actual police work and not rely on an ANPR camera if some-one who is NOT insured to ride it.... does.....
Its not illegal to have to policies in force in respect of a single vehicle, either..... so say you have a 3000 mile annual mileage quota and breach that within six months, to take out a second policy on the machine for the miles you do for the rest of the year, rather than paying amendment fees and adjustments on the original one.....
Again, would only become illegal if the machine was stolen and you tried to profit by deception and claim for the loss twice over once against each policy.
Actually knew a lad, who at 18, did this strategically; He ran a Ford Escort 1100 for a year and a half, using three limited miles 'classic' policies to cover him, and crank up 3 years NCB in less than 2 years, which let him get an MG-Meastro-Turbo aged 19!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 00:44 - 17 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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I believe that the worst case - in theory - is that the bike is nicked, stacked into some nuns-and-kittens, and their claim is split against the two insurers. Your insurer could then attempt and get their money back from you because you didn't cancel the policy and left them unreasonably exposed to risk.
Again, that's just my lay understanding of a theoretical risk, I doubt it'd really play out that way in practice.
OP, what you're paying is almost certainly a loan that was used to pay for your policy in full up front. You've agreed to pay off that loan regardless of whether the policy is cancelled or not, so in your shoes I'd ignore what I just wrote above and let it run. 
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| newtoriding |
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newtoriding
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| arry |
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arry
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Posted: 10:20 - 17 Aug 2012  Post subject: Re: Selling my bike and the insurance |
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| Teflon-Mike wrote: | | arry wrote: | Not telling your insurance company is effectively non disclosure, ie fraud. |
Nope.
Fraud = Profit by Deception.
It would only be 'fraud' if you sold the bike, THEN made a claim against the policy attempting to deceive the insurance company that the bike had been stolen!
Technically you have bought an annual motorcycle policy, and paid for that policy 'up-front' via a credit agreement, which you are paying off by installment.
As far as the policy is concerned, it provides 'cover'... up to you if you utilise that cover.... for instance I may have a policy that covers two bikes, and never ride one of them, or I may have a 6000 mile annual mileage allowance and only use 600 miles of it, or I could have two named riders and and second rider never rides the bike; I may have a free 'green-card' with the policy but never go abroad, or I might have inclusive breakdown, but be covered by a personal AA membership.....
NOTHING says you HAVE to use something you pay for.
Yes; its a 'non-disclosure', but all that does is invalidate cover.... ie you cant claim against the policy.... as you don't have the bike.... you cant claim ANYWAY!
UNLESS you attempt to perpetrate a fraud... and MAKE a claim!
Only 'bug-bear' and reason WHY they would try ans SUGGEST that you are breaking the law, which at MOST is merely 'breach of contract'.....
Is that if you maintain the policy, then the BIKE will be logged as being 'insured' on the MID..... so poor plod might have to do some actual police work and not rely on an ANPR camera if some-one who is NOT insured to ride it.... does.....
Its not illegal to have to policies in force in respect of a single vehicle, either..... so say you have a 3000 mile annual mileage quota and breach that within six months, to take out a second policy on the machine for the miles you do for the rest of the year, rather than paying amendment fees and adjustments on the original one.....
Again, would only become illegal if the machine was stolen and you tried to profit by deception and claim for the loss twice over once against each policy.
Actually knew a lad, who at 18, did this strategically; He ran a Ford Escort 1100 for a year and a half, using three limited miles 'classic' policies to cover him, and crank up 3 years NCB in less than 2 years, which let him get an MG-Meastro-Turbo aged 19! |
All very well apart from the fact he will profit from it, because he'll get his 1 year's NCD in order to reduce his renewal premium. Therefore, fraud. |
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shereen
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goto10
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arry
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shereen
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shereen
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UnknownStuntm...
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| goto10 |
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goto10
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| Posted: 12:13 - 17 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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| shereen wrote: |
Is that true though?
Example:
Bob insures a car, he lets his John friend borrow it who isnt insured, John has a fault accident. Can the 3rd party claim of Bob even though Bob wasnt the driver?
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Yes definitely. Bob wouldn't get anything for his damaged vehicle though, even if fully comp. Again the insurer may pursue Bob for 3rd party costs.
| shereen wrote: |
Another example:
An insured car is stolen, the thief who isnt insured to drive the car has a fault accident. Do the 3rd party claim off the proposer?
Its the same as what you are saying, there is insurance on the vehicle but the driver isnt insured.  |
I _think_ the MIB would cover the 3rd party in this instance, Bob would get paid out for the loss of his vehicle this time though, assuming he was fully comp.
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 13:29 - 17 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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| goto10 wrote: | The problem here is that if you sell the bike and the next guy doesn't bother to insure it, he could cause serious injury to a 3rd party - but as the bike IS insured, the 3rd party would [rightly] seek to claim from your policy, the insurer would more than likely then look to you (the proposer) to reclaim its costs (which could be significantly large) |
Heh, that's a lot more simple than my example. 
I believe that this is a realistic possibility, although I'm not sure of any case law that supports it specifically. The ones I've seen have been about insurers having to pay out even though the driver at the time was unlisted on the insurance / unlicensed / had TWOCed the vehicle. We've heard about police forces claiming off the insurers of stolen vehicles for damage caused to the plodmobiles, it's not completely theoretical.
The principle seems to be that an innocent third party has suffered, insurers have deep pockets, so pay up. As you note, it'd just go via the MIB scheme otherwise, it's not as though the industry as a whole would avoid paying out.
Personally, I have a multi-bike policy with eBike and when I get around to palming flogging off excess bikes, I'll be having them off the policy before the new owner gets to the end of the street.
For a single vehicle policy where you want the NCD, it's more of a judgement call. I'd probably let it run myself, but I wouldn't exactly encourage it.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 13 years, 287 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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See, with this it's a fairly safe bet, nobody else will put a claim on on the bike during that time!
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