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| RideLimousin |
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RideLimousin
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| Ariel Badger |
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Ariel Badger
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| Shaft |
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Shaft
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 Posted: 23:54 - 21 Aug 2012  Post subject: |
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It all makes for pretty grim reading, but it's not the first (or last) time somebody tried to make something out of a brand name, with no clear idea of how it all works.
They're obviously getting something right, if they can get punters to fork out the full price, with no clear idea of when the product is going to be delivered, but it's clear the situation can't continue.
I do wonder though, how many of the ex senior staff, experts as they make themselves out to be, will step in to save the project.
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20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
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| Andy_Pagin |
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Andy_Pagin
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Ariel Badger
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| Shaft |
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Shaft
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| Posted: 00:24 - 22 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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| Andy_Pagin wrote: | Last time I looked at Nortons they were about thirteen grand, at that price I'd expect a Rolls-Royce level of customer service. |
According to their website, a 961 Sport is £13500, a Cafe is £14750, but there's no price for an SE, because "the allocation has run out", which is interesting.
Given that the current list price for an R1 is around 11 grand, the Norton seems like pretty good value, for what's supposed to be a virtually bespoke machine; I would've expected it to be more like 20K, if not a bit more, which is a problem highlighted in the link in the OP.
____________________
Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035 |
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| Ariel Badger |
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Ariel Badger
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| Posted: 00:46 - 22 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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| Shaft wrote: |
According to their website, a 961 Sport is £13500, a Cafe is £14750, but there's no price for an SE, because "the allocation has run out", which is interesting.
Given that the current list price for an R1 is around 11 grand, the Norton seems like pretty good value, for what's supposed to be a virtually bespoke machine; I would've expected it to be more like 20K, if not a bit more, which is a problem highlighted in the link in the OP. |
It is a decent price if they were able to build and deliver bike which they appear incapable of doing and the money seems to be running out for them leaving unhappy customers, suppliers and taxpayers.
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| Frost |
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Frost
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Posted: 00:57 - 22 Aug 2012  Post subject: |
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They're a very small operation so problems getting things moving are to be expected. However interest was high as was demand. They could have bumped the prices up to £20,000 per bike and still had enough sales to exceed their manufacturing capacity, plus more cash to get the ball rolling.
The brand name is still desirable and powerful it just needs a cash injection and someone experienced at the helm.
So close, but so far  |
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| Shaft |
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Shaft
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| Posted: 01:06 - 22 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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| Frost wrote: | They're a very small operation so problems getting things moving are to be expected. However interest was high as was demand. They could have bumped the prices up to £20,000 per bike and still had enough sales to exceed their manufacturing capacity, plus more cash to get the ball rolling.
The brand name is still desirable and powerful it just needs a cash injection and someone experienced at the helm.
So close, but so far |
Pretty much what I was typing, until my connection crashed 
I would've been a bit braver though; a Panigale, Goldwing, or V-Max is knocking on the door of 20K, so 25 grand for a Norton doesn't seem out of the way.
An extra 10-12K per unit pays a lot of wages and buys a lot of quality parts.
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Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035 |
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| Polarbear |
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Polarbear
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| Posted: 05:27 - 22 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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TBH I think it's a snip at £14000 especially compared with Stuarts £14000 chinese Victory. The trouble being I doubt we will ever see them on the road unless someone comes in with a fist full of cash to shore them up.
You only get one shot at the customer and if you fuck up for whatever reason, thats it. I agree with Shaft and Frost, they have undervalued their product and now they are fucked. They can't suddenly add £6000 to the price and they can't afford to turn them out at £14000.
Perhaps the wheels will have 'Made in China' stamped on them soon.
It's a real pity cause they look lovely bikes.
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 09:37 - 22 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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Well, at least they're carrying on the best traditions of the British motorcycle industry. I'll just re-post my thoughts passim from their TT adventure:
I'd say they're trying to adopt Morgan's "Yesterday's wheel, tomorrow" strategy, except Morgan can afford to do that because they have a full order book and their customers know they (or their descendants) will get the cars eventually.
Norton, well, it looks to me like they're spunking their £7.5 million State underwritten loan on a marketing folly, rather than on building the bikes that they have orders for. If I were waiting for one while they sink their time and money into what appears to be a very mediocre fantasy racer that's hardly a stellar advert for their design and engineering skills, I don't think I'd be best pleased.
| stinkwheel wrote: | going to full production on the basis of a single, modified prototype that cannot be properly assembled in a factory? |
Made from random gleanings from the parts bin that almost certainly maybe came from Big Dave's Widgets, you remember Dave, he retired back in '97, Gary in Paint definitely probably has his son-in-law's number.
I honestly wonder if they'd be better settings themselves up as a custom modification shop rather than making any pretence that they can actually turn out thousand of bikes which all have the wheels in something like a straight line.
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| Cheeseybeaner |
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Cheeseybeaner
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| Posted: 11:18 - 22 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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| Polarbear wrote: | TBH I think it's a snip at £14000 especially compared with Stuarts £14000 chinese Victory. The trouble being I doubt we will ever see them on the road unless someone comes in with a fist full of cash to shore them up.
You only get one shot at the customer and if you fuck up for whatever reason, thats it. I agree with Shaft and Frost, they have undervalued their product and now they are fucked. They can't suddenly add £6000 to the price and they can't afford to turn them out at £14000.
Perhaps the wheels will have 'Made in China' stamped on them soon.
It's a real pity cause they look lovely bikes. |
They do seem pretty expensive for what they are, I mean the design appears very dated (961cc 2 valve pushrod twin with 78hp!) and there's little innovation there.
Power isn't far off a Bonneville which retails at 8k less. Don't see why they couldn't have produced something more innovative and new that wasn't merely a pastiche of past Nortons and the whole 'cafe racer' cliche. Doesn't seem like progress somehow.
I saw one the other day, looked and sounded nice, but 15k! |
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| map |
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map
Mr Calendar
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| Posted: 11:27 - 22 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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I have only had time to skim read but it appears to me that it's a sorrier tale than the Hesketh.
FWIW saw a Hesketh (possibly a v1000) up at Squires recently. In the flesh it looked very nice but owner not around to ask how it actually rode and was maintained.
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Kris
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| .Chris. |
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.Chris.
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| Posted: 13:49 - 22 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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| MarJay |
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MarJay
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.Chris.
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| Andy_Pagin |
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Andy_Pagin
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| Posted: 14:14 - 22 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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| map wrote: | I have only had time to skim read |
tl;dr;
They're not delivering bikes paid for in full, refusing to refund until the customer gets a 'winding up order' against them.
Financially they're fucked and slowly going down the pan.
And finally the bikes are crap.
| Quote: |
Norton have quality control issues
......
We were sent a document by a highly respected bike builder who had stripped a 961....We forwarded his report to Steve Hillary, the only other person we knew of who had gutted a 961. Steve concurred with the report findings, which included:
Swing arm bearings not wide enough apart, base too narrow and lacking in rigidity. Swing arm bearings unsuitable.
Headstock bearing bores for outer bearing races distorted from welding process . 0.2mm – 0.3mm out of round and not in line. Should be machined and aligned after headstock is welded. ¹⁰
A further eighteen items were cited including issues with the valvetrain and gearbox. |
Still to their credit Norton really are going for the whole retro experience, crap bikes and a hopeless business model - so very 1970s' British.
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 14:38 - 22 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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Heh, I just saw that too. I wonder how much money Norton pissed away buying copy adverts in MCN instead of making bikes? If that money has dried up, maybe that's MCN swinging their leg back prior to putting the boot in.
I'm not gloating here, and I'm not really blaming Norton either, it was always going to be an uphill struggle. It's just a damn shame that we seem to have lost the manufacturing base to support a motorcycle industry beyond Triumph.
And I fully agree that they should have asked more realistic prices for what are essentially bespoke bikes. For the money they had (and burned through) they could have had a web monkey feeding daily updates to every customer on their individual bike's progress. Instead it sounds like they grabbed the money, muttered "Call you when it's done" from around a fag end, then slammed the door in their faces.
And I liked the look and concept of the 961, I really did, it's got that "Once I've paid off the mortgage..." vibe to it.
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| paddlesat16 |
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paddlesat16
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| Posted: 16:11 - 22 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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I don't understand all that Motogp/TT nonsense when they have no money. They seem to waste money on concepts as opposed to customers bikes  .
If i was Norton i'd keep my head down and build bikes with a skeleton staff and build a reputation. Fuck the racing idea it's just a dream.
Nice bikes tho
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Cheeseybeaner
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.Chris.
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Mr Calendar
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| Posted: 18:54 - 22 Aug 2012 Post subject: |
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I am really surprised they didn't contract out all the bodywork, frame, wiring, lights, etc. to China and have them shipped over in a container and just bolt it together and sell for a tremendous profit and not give a damn about customer service.
Oh, wait, I think Victory Motorcycles UK may have got that business model first 
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| felicity |
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felicity
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 13 years, 233 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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