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THEARG
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ScaredyCat
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
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 Posted: 22:36 - 23 Sep 2012  Post subject: |
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| ScaredyCat wrote: | Teflon-Mike will be here in a few minutes and will write an essay on why DAS |
Thankyou ScardyCat, for the intro, now taking the mike.....
I reccomend spacing lessons rather than doing an intensive course, and using your own bike between lessons to practice to your hearts content.
That way you can take in what's tought in more manageable chunks, and your not paying an instructor to do little more than watch you wobble and fullfilling legal requirement to supervise you being on a bike you dont have a licence for.
THEN if you want to test under DAS rules... fair enough. Conversion lesson couple of hours on a big bike to get the weight and feel and see if you like it. Lesson to practice on big bike for mod 1, and do mod 1. Maybe an interim lesson on the DAS bike, then one more prep and test on the DAS bike.
Takes a lot of pressure off training, gives you as much time as you need, to cheaply practice whats needed.
If you already have the 125.... your streets ahead there.... BUT riding without any lessons to 'check' what you are doing you could need a bit of extra work to correct any 'bad' and now habitualised habbits..... be warned, doing an intensive course, could be a lot of time spent telling you NOT to do the same thing over and over and over again!
BUT, remember you dont HAVE to do a DAS course.
You dont have tro do ANY formal training if you dont want to, though I do reccomend it; tests are teh same and cost the same whether you do them on a 125 or a DAS bike.
And you dont even NEED a course to test under DAS... can turn up on a mates bike and do it on that as long as you are insured!
DAS courses DONT garantee DAS passes, remember......
And its the SAME licence at the moment whether you pass on a 125 or on a DAS bike.
Only difference is that if you pass on a 125, you have a 2 year 33bhp power restriction... this need not be a huge impediment.... lots of bikes are under that limit or easily restricted.... and the licence automatically 'upgrades' to teh full A licence youd get doing a DAS test, after 24 months, you dont have to take any more tests, fill in any forms even... nothing.
SO.... first up do you want to do training? Next do you WANT to test under DAS? Do you WANT to try doing it all in a 'crash-course'?
Personally, for the sake of £90.... might be woth just going for it.
You have to get your theory done anyway, thats £31.... Mod 1 id £15.50... its so cheap its probably not worth even having lessons for it, just do and if you fail treating it as a learning excersize. Mod 2. If you have been riding more than six months and aren't dead or given up.... its probably not asking much more of you than you are already doing... you might be able to pass it tomorrow with a little reading.....
Lessons are invaluable, might help improve your test chances but thats only ONE part of good riding, and lessons can help give you a lot to make you a better more competant rider, not just a qualified one..... though intensive courses are likely to ONLY concentrate on teaching you to pass test.
On which basiss, slow and steady, doing weekly lessons to get your riding up to scratch, and as a by product be able to pass test, it could be a good way to go.....
BUT JUST to get your licence? That £650 is for an all in four day course remarkeably 'cheap', TBH.... BUT its STILL a big chunk of cash, to essentially give you little or no more than you could get paying the £90's worth of Mod test fees, and winging it, JUST to avoid the power-probation.
I'd think about it.... if you are under 24, then there may be more imperative to do it via DAS becouse as of January, new laws come in and the 125 route to a full unrestricted licence is effectively closed, and the DAS age goes up to 24... other wise makes little odds, OTHER than you could get the licence now on your 125 for reletive pennies.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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THEARG
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 02:57 - 24 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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Depends how they price themselves.
Chances are they preffer to block book whole days; saves gaps in thier shedule when no-one wants a lesson.
£650 for four days training, including tests? Well, knock off £90 for the tests, that leabes £560 for four days of instructor time. four days at 7 hours a day is 28 hours.... you get £20 an hour.
OK, four days of training...... rough reckoner.... 1/3 teach time, 2/3 practice time.
So.... for the 'practical' tuition you would get on a four day course.... you'd be getting maybe two hours in six actual instruction, then paying the instructor to watch you practice that on his bike, rather than going home and doing that for free on your own.
So, you do hourly lessons, and for the same 'real' training you'd get doing an intensive course.... you need three or four lessons, NOT three or four days.
Even if they charge £30 per hour for a lesson instead of the £20 implied by thier course rate..... JUST taking out that supervised practice.... and paying the premium of one off lessons, you are paying £240 instead of £560.
Given your an existing rider and MAY have ingrained bad habbits to kick, and a LOT of your paid for training COULD be instructor NAGGING you mercilessly to STOP doing stuff you have been told time and time not to do...
If you DONT get it sorted in that under-pressure four day course? Well, whats the score, have to book another COMPLETE course? could be expensive. £60 for an extra lesson, after a heavy nagging, could be all thats needed, and be a lot easier to bear.
Ultimately, its your money, and HE WHO PAYS THE PIPER CALLS THE TUNE.
You say you dont want to have to take four days straight off work... why shgould you have to to suit teh convenience of some-one YOU are paying for YOUR convenicence!
Go talkk to other schools and tell THEM what YOU want, not let them dicate to YOU what they think you should have!
And if you DO decide its not worth the candle to argue... well have a think about it, becouse there are some more upmarket schools who offer residential courses, like the Mallory based 'Track Training', that are essentially selling a package holiday with free bike licence.... which as a complete change of scenary and something a little more 'novel' may be WORTH taking the time off work for!
No need you HAVE to do it at you local school or test centre!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Magnet
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Posted: 09:41 - 24 Sep 2012  Post subject: |
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I paid £565 including test fee's and bike hire for a 4 day course. I opted out of the optional £40 excess cover. I just made sure I didn't crash the bike 
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It’s not that I’m so smart, it’s just that I stay with problems longer.
GPZ600R Sold, Now ZZR600 |
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Rogerborg
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Posted: 11:46 - 24 Sep 2012  Post subject: |
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| Teflon-Mike wrote: | there are some more upmarket schools who offer residential courses, like the Mallory based 'Track Training', that are essentially selling a package holiday with free bike licence.... |
DANGER! DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!
| About Mallory 'Circuit Based Training' mattress wrote: | I did it there too and although I passed, I have to say that it was truly awful.
The instruction was non-existant, there were too few instructors, the premises was a dilapidated portacabin, the bikes were absolute wrecks (unlike the pristine ones shown on the website) and the riding gear that they provided was fit for the bin (along with the bikes).
I assumed that a large part the training would take place on the circuit but there seemed to be an event on all but one of the four days! So, the little 'training' that was done on the circuit was did rather aimlessly - the instructors didn't seem to give a toss.
The day before the test I spoke to another guy doing the course and said that I 100% believe that the instructors have absolutely have no idea what our strengths and weaknesses were and what we need to do to increase our chances of passing! Incredible but true!
Anyway, the pass rate was 40% in my group! They didn't seen too bothered as they could see an opportunity to extract even more money from us!
I find it difficult to accept that I was duped into believing all that they claim on their website. The claimed approval from MCN and Bike magazine still grates with me now and was probably the deciding factor towards paying the rather large amount of money for the abysmal course.
My advice to anyone is to talk to people and find a good, reputable motorcycle trainer in you local area and get some decent, dedicated training on a bike that won't break down throughout the week. Don't be tempted by these cowboys. |
Other than that, what Tef said ( ). Your money, your choice. If one outfit would rather lose your business, I'm sure another will take it.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 14:35 - 24 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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Sorry.... yeah, I'm not 'reccomending' Mallory Track-Based Training, it was merely an example, of the 'sort' of 'gimmick/activity-holiday' courses that are on offer, and probably the most widely known.
Never had anything to do with them; and know they have received some pretty mixed reports. Remember, this is a 'package holiday' with motorbikes... a lot depends on what people expect from it!
As such I think the whole concept is a bit of a gimmick, BUT? What the heck. If you HAVE to take time off work, and you want to do an intensive DAS course, AND you are clued up and prepared for it; could be a bit of a laugh, and make the time into something a bit 'more' than just going to school for a week.....
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Mr Calendar
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| Posted: 14:53 - 24 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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FWIW I did the intensive DAS course sooo long ago now. Took a week off work and that was my holiday splurge.
Time of year has probably passed as I did mine in summer with the light nights. I recall doing the day training and then going out again in the evening on the CG125 to practice some more. Useful having some idea what the test route might be and the funny junctions and speed limits to watch out for (although as others have said you should learn to ride in any strange town/city).
I actually found the bigger bike easier to handle and more confidence inspiring. Took me to the morning of the test to nail the turn in the road though.
I may have been lucky in my choice of instructors/school but went on a recommendation from a work colleague.
FWIW the price quoted doesn't sound too high to me. I think ballpark around here is to allow £600 as looked into it recently for the missus. Obviously prices may vary place to place. Down in London you might be paying more than say Newcastle or Manchester. Have you 'phoned any other places to see what they offer and prices?
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...and the whirlwind is in the thorn trees, it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks...
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 17:59 - 24 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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| THEARG wrote: | Have searched google for hourly lessons but they seem to be a non existence,why this is I dont know so it looks like they have me over a barrel and I will have to do the DAS |
There is more under heaven & earth than is contained within your philosophhies computer, Horatio!
| THEARG wrote: | So from what I can gather I do a days training to learn module 1 and then do half a day the next day taking module 1 then another day training for mod 2 and then another half day taking mod 2.
Are the mods the test which are taken by the examiner? If so that means I am paying around £250 a day for the lessons,is that right? |
By previouse calculation, yeah, about that price per day.
Back to top, you DONT have to do ANY formal training before you take tests, IF you dont want to.
If you DO want training, there is NOTHING that says you HAVE to take ONLY what schools put up on thier webbies!
How old are you? You dont seem to me to be a teenager who knows no more than exists on face-book and google!
Plenty of schools dont HAVE web-sites; get a yellow pages, you live in london, is it 'loot'? free-papers, Motor-Cycle-News.... PHONE PEOPLE... and TELL THEM what YOU want and ASK them if they will do it for you!
They might not ADVERTISE hourly lessons, becouse 'most' people want courses.... but they probably DO offer them IF YOU ASK!
Either way, back to top; if you want to, you CAN just book the tests yourself on the DSA web-site, turn up and DO, on your bike!
If its a twist and go scooter, you may only be entitled to an 'Automatic only' licence, but if what you want is a 400 burgman, fair shout... its auto... licence will let you ride it, and ALL you have to pay is £31 for thoery/hazard, £15.50 for the Mod 1 test, £75 for the Mod 2 test. Theory takes about an hour, so takes a couple of hours out of your day, Mod 1 15 mins, would take about ah nour out of a day, Mod 2 about an hour, might take two and a half hours out of a day.....
You DONT have to use a school if you dont want to.
If you want to use a school..... you aren't limited to merely those that advertise themselves on the web, or who are in the higher ranked google searches, or who only advertise intensive courses.
This is the self perpetuating falacy that you HAVE to do an intensive DAS course to get a licence via DAS..... becouse people only see courses advertsied, and NEVER ASK for anything different!
Use some old fasioned cocum and technology, go talk to people!
If its what you want, its worth the effort, no?
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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THEARG
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MCW
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 22:17 - 24 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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| THEARG wrote: | but if I turn up on my Dylan wont I be restricted for 2 years and can only ride an auto |
You say Dylan, and sorry, I see:-
https://images.wikia.com/themagicroundabout/images/8/89/Dylan.jpg
I KNOW you are talking about a scooter, because you have mentioned it before... but I'm afraid, I have only the vaguest notion what it is... Its a scooter.... that's all I need to know, really?
IS It twist and go? Some scooters do have gears I believe. (Well, only one I have ever owned, a 1965 Vespa 90 did... not that it ever worked, but still, it had gears!)
Yes, if you take tests on an auto, you get auto-only restriction.
If you take tests on a 125, you get a 2-year 33bhp restriction period. after that, restriction automatically lapses and you can ride whatever you like.... though with auto-only... would be limited.
NOW, you have raised a very interesting query with regard to the licencing system, which I actually cant answer.
If you test on a 125, you get a restricted A-Licence. Two years time that becomes an unrestricted licence, no further tests.
BUT, if you test on an auto, we have this auto-restriction which is permanent. As far as I know, you have to re-test to lift the auto only restriction, BUT... this is the interesting query.
ROGER! Over 'ere mate, what can you fathom of this one!
If you passed 'standard bike' test on a 125 twist and go, this month, and got a Full a-Group licence; if in two years time you wanted to 'convert' to a geared bike, you would merely have to take, the tests over on a geared bike.
You would have a FULL A ride what you like licence..... WOULD you have to do the conversion test on a full power, A-Class bike, or, could you turn up and do it on a geared 125?
I dont know.... but poses interesting question.
Either way; for where you are at; you have to do your thoery and get that out the way.. is that booked yet? If not, get onto it, it wont be included in any courses so needs doing.
Its then your choice and whether you can find the training you want; and what that is.
BUT, £90... turn up do tests, get the licence in your pocket, even if its auto only,
I dont know what a burgman makes as stock... is it actually over 33bhp?
If not, then you are sorted, at least for the forseeable.
If so, two shouts;
a) its probably easily restricted to 33bhp, its not going to be that much over anyway.
b) if they stop you doing 90 on a scooter (Congratulations! You are even crazier than I thought!) and if they ask why it ent restricted..... they'd probably be telling you you need L-Plates as well!
I really cant see any-one looking at a big scooter and going "Ey-Up! Got wun'o'dem bykuz 'ere! This'll make an easy colla! Lets go ask awkward questions about an FI International restriction cert! THAT'LL slow bugga up!" I know I harp on at Revin-Kevins that want to jump straight on 600 super-sports as soon as they have a licence... BUT... Well.....its a scooter!
£90 over however much for a DAS course, and you are somewhere better than you are now.
And IF you want to lift either the 33bhp restriction, or the auto-only restriction, theres nothing stopping you doing that DAS course in a year or whenever is more convenient.... Its not like its an exlusive deal.
See where I'm coming from?
Obviously, the preferred choice at the moment, is to find a school that will do you weekly 2hour is lessons, to suit your availability, and provide DAS bike to test on when you get to it.
And there has GOT to be some-one who'll do that. As M-L-Crisis-girl says, her school offers them, one I used to instruct with, that Snowie went to does it ALL that way, they ARE about... you just have to hunt one out.
Then look at the costs. My local School, does a full course of lessons, on your own bike for a mere £125, becouse its a volunteer outfit, and you really cant beat that kind of value, and there are other similar shchemes, and I do recall one down your way, though it was out in teh further suburbs I think. Others may be more expensive, and its likely that they will charge more pro-rata for short lessons than a block course; but if it suits your schedule? And you might find some 'efficiency-saving' doing your practice between lessons, not paying to have bloke watch you wobble? Could work out better in the long run. And ought to be less daunting than trying to do it all in one go via one week intensive course, where there is risk you WONT pass first time and may have to do it all over, or book more days.
ONE LAST THOUGHT for you to ponder: What about trading in the Dylan for a geared 125?
The suggested DAS course price would almost BUY you a geared 125 on its own.
Get a YBR or old CG125, you could go it alone, self book, get your licence before January, and yeah, be restricted to 33bhp for two years, but you wouldn't have the auto-only restrict..... two years time, full unrerstricted ride what you like, any power, any transmission licence......
MIGHT be worth a thought if you DO manage to find a school that does you weekly lessons anyway; they will probably be on a geared bike, so if you want to practice between lessons, a CG or YBR would be more 'like; what you are riding 'at school'.
And.... well..... could take you in a different direction and put the Burgman idea out the window.... you may decide you want a geared commuter twin, like an ER5 or whatever.... and they are very pretty cheap and easily restricted to 33bhp if you test on a 125.
The options are all there, really.....
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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THEARG
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THEARG
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| Posted: 13:19 - 25 Sep 2012 Post subject: |
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Found a center that will give me a free assessment and all being well they think I can do the 3 day course for £400 all in and an extra day at £140 if needed and I can split this into stages for the same price,happy days!
I will let you know how I get on.
____________________
Dylan 125. CBT 04/12 |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 13 years, 198 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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