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Opinions on helmet with pinlock and sun visor please...

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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 13:50 - 01 Nov 2012    Post subject: Opinions on helmet with pinlock and sun visor please... Reply with quote

Need a new helmet.
I prefer flip-front as I wear glasses. Just find it easier and I know all the pros and cons, noise, etc. over full face.

So, I've found the Caberg Duke for £145 (via GetGeared, store local to me so I can try on, may be cheaper elsewhere).
This meets my need for pinlock fitted (I like pinlock) and a sun visor. Plus I can fit flat headphones as it's designed for a bluetooth headset.
https://www.getgeared.co.uk/Caberg_duke_flip-up_helmet_metal-white_l.jpg
It appears as an added bonus should I wish to be silly in summer I can wear it locked in the up position Rolling Eyes

So, anyone got any comments on this helmet. Fit, noise, fogging, wear and tear, etc.
Or any suggestions for any other flip-front in the same price ballpark with pinlock fitted and visor?

Thanks in anticipation Thumbs Up
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Last edited by map on 14:08 - 01 Nov 2012; edited 1 time in total
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Dazbo666
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 01 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it turns out to be crap for wearing on the bike, you could always get yourself some white body armour and use it as part of a stormtrooper outfit Wink
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j00pY
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PostPosted: 15:14 - 01 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Caburg Ego which isn't a flip up, as I don't like flip-ups, but I have to say that its very good value for £120ish. I also actually really like the styling. I went for matt black, and it looks great.

The sun visor is an excellent idea, but it does mist up very quickly in cold weather. The pinlock will stop the main visor from misting though.

I didn't ride for 10 years, so I can't really compare it to my old helmets, but I think its a bit noisier than what I had before (Dianese).
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 15:23 - 01 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only one I consider is Shoei's flip front. But more £££. I don't know if it has the sunshade.

Some cheaper helmets use a lot of 'Lexan' to cut down weight etc.
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StevRS
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PostPosted: 15:59 - 01 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me Cabergs always feel to have a lot of room in front of my face, which may suit if you wear glasses. The downside is that the flip-front I had (don't recall the model name, but no longer on sale so perhaps not an issue anymore) was INCREDIBLY noisy; Unbelievably so. Sad
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:31 - 01 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Duke is relatively new, so don't take this as gospel, but the previous model Caberg Konda that I tried was a big, heavy lump of a thing.

In the end, I got a Nitro F341-vn, which is very similar in features and comedy Lego Man size as the Konda, but cost £50. No problems with it so far. I wear earplugs so I can't really speak to the noise.
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bencav
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 01 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto the Nitro, granted a pin lock is £20 on top, but still a chap helmet!

I also had a Konda (Or it may have been a Trip!) which was awful, too heavy, very noisy and the lining gave way too quickly for my liking!

I hane a Nolan N90 now, Very nice helmet! Quite quiet for a flip, but good and light, strong closure mechanism, and doesnt look too different to a full face! With the intro of the N104, I have nitices N103s have dropped in price quite quickly, and are a model above the N90 - Just dont get a classic model as these are pinlock ready, not fitted!
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 01 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re fit: get yourself to a shop and try it on obviously.

I've done about 15k miles in the Konda, very similar to the Duke (according to this, the Duke was redesigned to reduce weight and noise, and to make riding with the front flipped up legal). It (the Konda) has no ventilation configuration options, and is a bit "pokey" (i.e. it has slightly pointy bits) in where it sits on my head. On the other hand, with the small-size cheekpads (I bought separately) in the medium-size helmet, it fits my face more securely than its replacement, the C3.

In terms of noise, it's slightly louder than my C3, which is allegedly one of the quietest helmets on the market. Noise is heavily dependent on where your head is in the airstream as I'm sure you know. And if Duke is redesigned to reduce noise, I personally wouldn't worry about it, but would still wear earplugs on a long high-speed ride.

One thing I like best about the Konda over and above the C3 is the extra length of the Konda at the front (and the Duke is shaped the same); it comes down further and stops my neck (and thus balaclava or neck tube) from getting wet nearly as quickly as the C3. Thinking of popping over to Ireland next week, and am seriously considering wearing the Konda instead of the C3, even without pinlock, simply because of the neck protection.
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Hobgoblin
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 01 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Map.

I have just bought this helmet in metal black. I wanted a lid with the same features as you desire. I am impressed by it so far and really like it in white too, it was my first choice but since its a work lid it'll end up dirty so i bought black.

If you would like this lid for £108.74, including a free oxford deluxe bag and a helmet cleaning kit then use nov12 as a discount code when u checkout buying from lids direct.
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Last edited by Hobgoblin on 21:45 - 01 Nov 2012; edited 2 times in total
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Hobgoblin
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PostPosted: 21:20 - 01 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be wrong also to assume a pattern, i did, but time will tell:

the dukes predecessor the konda is sharp 5 star rated.

the kondas predecessor the trip is also 5 star sharp rated.
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Mark 37
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PostPosted: 17:17 - 07 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm wondering if you got the "Duke" helmet. I ordered one from lids direct after seeing the discount code provided above (thanks).

I saw it in white at my local Honda dealership and I thought it looked rather good but after reading the above comment about looking like a storm trooper I opted for gloss black (only just dawned on me I'll look like darth vader instead, lol). Matt black looks ok, but after reading many reviews it would appear to mark easily even with raindrops.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:20 - 07 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

barrkel wrote:
Duke was redesigned to reduce weight and noise, and to make riding with the front flipped up legal

Just as an aside, while I agree that they're (likely) had it ECE tested both open and closed, I don't believe that there's anything in the existing statute that actually makes it illegal to ride with a flip front open.

All that it says is that the helmet has to be BSI or ECE marked - or can be reasonably believed to offer a similar level of protection - and that it has to be securely fastened to the head. Really, that's it.

FWIW, T.C said the same thing, and that is his day job.
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C1REX
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PostPosted: 23:27 - 07 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not answer for the question but I would recommend contact lenses.

Riding a bike was the main reason I switched to contacts.
So much better. More comfortable. Safer. Looks better.

It may be even cheaper as I broke 1 frame because of helmet.

Monthly lenses are cheap and last way longer if taken care of them.

Kris
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 08:17 - 08 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

C1REX wrote:
It's not answer for the question but I would recommend contact lenses.

Riding a bike was the main reason I switched to contacts.
So much better. More comfortable. Safer. Looks better.

It may be even cheaper as I broke 1 frame because of helmet.

Monthly lenses are cheap and last way longer if taken care of them.

Kris


Rubbish... Vision Express do 'Prescription Visors' for most popular makes of crash helmets now.
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 09:20 - 08 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark 37 wrote:
I'm wondering if you got the "Duke" helmet. I ordered one from lids direct after seeing the discount code provided above (thanks)....

Yes. Ordered and arrived today as I was leaving for work.
So I'll have a play with it this evening. Thumbs Up
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Gibbs, what did Duckie look like when he was younger? Very Happy
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Sir Black Pig
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PostPosted: 09:38 - 08 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
barrkel wrote:
Duke was redesigned to reduce weight and noise, and to make riding with the front flipped up legal

Just as an aside, while I agree that they're (likely) had it ECE tested both open and closed, I don't believe that there's anything in the existing statute that actually makes it illegal to ride with a flip front open.

All that it says is that the helmet has to be BSI or ECE marked - or can be reasonably believed to offer a similar level of protection - and that it has to be securely fastened to the head. Really, that's it.

FWIW, T.C said the same thing, and that is his day job.


The flip front lids are not tested with the front open, as such it is illegal to ride that way. (Despite the fact that the police do it all the time).

Riding with the front open invalidates any ECE ratings and this renders the helmet illegal for road use, incurring a £30.00 fine (no points). ~May even be a £60.00 fine now, it may have gone up since I stopped instructing~

It is nothing to do with face protection or lock rigidity or any of those myths.
It is simply because, if a rider should come off with the front open and land face first, upon contact with the ground the open front will force the head back at an extreme angle and is quite likely break the riders neck.

This is the kind of neck break that causes instant death.

The obvious exceptions to this are the helmets like of the Roof Boxxer helmet, where the chin guard goes right over the top of the helmet to the back, these ARE tested with the front open and shut.
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Mark 37
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PostPosted: 10:06 - 08 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sir Black Pig wrote:


The flip front lids are not tested with the front open, as such it is illegal to ride that way. (Despite the fact that the police do it all the time).


My own personnel reason for ordering a flip front is for the amount of times I pull up at lights with an itchy nose and can't scratch it with a full face on. I wouldn't dream of riding with the flip up.

Heading out for a test ride in an hour or two(I can post my thoughts if wanted).

All the best,

Mark
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moppy
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PostPosted: 10:08 - 08 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Box FZ-1. £50 or something, cheaper with the discount code from lids direct, has pinlock and sun visor. Sorted.
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 10:26 - 08 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

moppy wrote:
Box FZ-1. £50 or something, cheaper with the discount code from lids direct, has pinlock and sun visor. Sorted.

Interesting, although
map wrote:
...I prefer flip-front as I wear glasses. Just find it easier...
...and the FZ-1 is full face but at that price to have pinlock ready visor and pinlock insert it is indeed a bargain (lidsdirect info here).

The BOX flip-front SZ-1 has neither of those but is fitted with the sun visor (lidsdirect info here).
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Gibbs, what did Duckie look like when he was younger? Very Happy
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moppy
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PostPosted: 11:11 - 08 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeh, I have the FZ-1 and it does everything I could ask for. The pinlock is starting to fog up in standstill in very cold weather after a year of use. So maybe time for a new insert. I wear earplugs, so don't know about noise.

So £37.50 for that helmet (with the discount code) is an absolute bargain.

Edit: Also, the SZ-1 probably comes with pinlock insert as well. Check the specs. My FZ-1 (when I bought it) just said pinlock ready, but came with the insert. Talk to lidsdirect, they respond pretty quickly to emails.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:40 - 08 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sir Black Pig wrote:
Riding with the front open invalidates any ECE ratings and this renders the helmet illegal for road use

With genuine respect and interest: why?

Do you know of any case law? The Motor Cycles (Protective Helmets) Regulations 1998 don't mention it, and make no distinction.

Sir Black Pig wrote:
The obvious exceptions to this are the helmets like of the Roof Boxxer helmet, where the chin guard goes right over the top of the helmet to the back, these ARE tested with the front open and shut.

As is (apparently) the Caberg Duke, which doesn't flip right over. And yet they're claiming that it passed in both configurations.

So, flip fronts can be tested in both open and flipped up (not over) configurations. There are also ECE approved 'jet style' helmets that boast non-structural chin bars. Is it safe to assume that they were tested and approved as open face helmets, since ECE does have a chin bar impact test?

So... on what basis would I believe that my Nitro was tested in the closed configuration (or only in that configuration)? If I were Nitro, I'd happily test it open, so as to skip the chin impact test.

It's not marked on it, there was no documentation with it, no warnings about it, nothing. How could I know how it was tested? By reading Caberg's marketing claims and making an inference? Thinking

And more to the point, how could a copper, or the Procurator Fiscal know, and then prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the helmet wasn't approved in that configuration, and even if so, that I couldn't have "reasonably expected" that it offered a "similar" level of protection to a helmet that was so approved, e.g. a Duke. Looks the same to me, mine is ECE marked, and I've got nothing from Nitro hinting otherwise. Reasonable, yes?

Bear in mind that the actual requirement is for a "British Standard 6658:1985 (amended)" marking, so I'm already making an assumption that the ECE 22.05 marking on it is "equivalent" to that BS standard.

tl;dr version: personally I have absolutely no concerns about the risk of being convicted of an offence for riding with a helmet flipped up. It's certainly conceivable, but it doesn't seem in the least bit probable.

I do now clearly understood the reason why I shouldn't, though. Thanks for that. Thumbs Up
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Llama-Farmer
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 08 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got the Konda which I found was great. I knew it'd be noisier and heavier than a full face, but it's still not much louder, even at 80-100mph with windspeed, but I wear in-ear headphones or ear plugs anyway so that blocks out a lot of wind noise.

Only bad thing I'd say about them is when it rains really heavy, you can get drips of water inside landing on your nose which is a bit annoying, but has only happened a few times, and I've worn it most days (5-6 times a week, every week) between January and June, including that ridiculously wet April.
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 13:26 - 08 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Sir Black Pig wrote:
The obvious exceptions to this are the helmets like of the Roof Boxxer helmet, where the chin guard goes right over the top of the helmet to the back, these ARE tested with the front open and shut.
As is (apparently) the Caberg Duke, which doesn't flip right over. And yet they're claiming that it passed in both configurations...


Caberg Duke P/J rated
https://www.caberg.it/includes/extra_content/DK/tech.png
https://www.caberg.it/includes/extra_content/DK/en/dual_homologation.pngclick on images of link to Caberg

This was new to me so I looked it up.
Quote:
In Europe, they test helmets as P (full-face) and J (open-face) for safety ratings. This helmets passes both standards of safety (P, when equipped with its chin bar and J without the chin bar).
Quote:
ECE 22.05 allows certification of modular helmets with or without chin bar tests, distinguished by -P (protective lower face cover) and -NP (non-protective) suffixes to the certification number
So if it can be locked open (flipped up) then it's a J open face helmet.

FWIW the SCORPION EXO 900 also has ECE 22-05 P & J safety standard.

I remember my (very) old X-Lite flip-up could be locked in the closed position apparently for racing regulations.

Previous Nolan helmet advised not to be ridden while front open. That said have seen many police ride with front open on their Scuberth/Bmw or Shoei versions. I'm presuming they just have the same warnings about riding with it open as my old Nolan.

Personally from recent experience would not ride with open face. However, talking to others they agree riding with it flipped up has advantages. Not only in summer but also in traffic where speed is slower and visibility is improved.
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Sir Black Pig
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 08 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

map wrote:
So if it can be locked open (flipped up) then it's a J open face helmet.



^^ Popular misconception.

The caberg lids DO NOT qualify as J for safety ratings, when the face is open.. They qualify for J safety ratings when the chin bar is completely removed using the Jet conversion kit, which is why they all come with conversion kits.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 08 Nov 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sir Black Pig wrote:
The flip front lids are not tested with the front open, as such it is illegal to ride that way. (Despite the fact that the police do it all the time).

Riding with the front open invalidates any ECE ratings and this renders the helmet illegal for road use, incurring a £30.00 fine (no points). ~May even be a £60.00 fine now, it may have gone up since I stopped instructing~

It is nothing to do with face protection or lock rigidity or any of those myths.
It is simply because, if a rider should come off with the front open and land face first, upon contact with the ground the open front will force the head back at an extreme angle and is quite likely break the riders neck.

This is the kind of neck break that causes instant death.

The obvious exceptions to this are the helmets like of the Roof Boxxer helmet, where the chin guard goes right over the top of the helmet to the back, these ARE tested with the front open and shut.


I think you are making things up.

The 'apporved' helmet only needs to be worn and properly fastened. Flipped up or down.

Because of the way one lands is hee-haw to do with legislation.

If it has I would like to read the section of the RTA where it states this... Or the Civil Law section for that matter.

I have had two flip ups and none of them had any information on this in the destructions that came with the helmet.

There are loads of other things you could do on a bike which are not regulated but are equally or more dangerous.

Quick Google:

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/community/Forums/Categories/Topic/?topic-id=354821

"Pwarr41 says:
emailed police

hi thanks for the information on these helmets.I have found something called the police national legal database. I've emailed them to find out their point of view on the matter.Will post a reply when i hear from them.Should be interesting.





Posted 4 years ago (01 April 2009 01:01)
Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 111
Pwarr41 says:
From the police
Thanks for the advice guys. I have just had a email back from the police and they sate the following: It is not illegal to ride with a visor up or to use an open face helmet. So therefore it is perfectly legal to ride using a flip front helmet withthe helmet front open. Thanks for your advice i think i now have the answer and mayeb this can help anyone in future. I will be printing the email out and keeping with my licence incase i get pulled for it, i then have the proof with me."
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