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This chain is knackered right? (noob)

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bulletmonkey
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Joined: 26 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: 18:38 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: This chain is knackered right? (noob) Reply with quote
Hi all, been lurking about here for a while Very Happy

I recently bought my son a Honda CBF 125 in pretty good condition.
Looking at the chain, which I was told by the seller was in good condition Rolling Eyes seems to be heavily kinked to me?
https://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c186/jafahia/2012-09-26175506.jpg[/img]

Even though the marker on the swing arm says new
https://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c186/jafahia/2012-09-26175534.jpg

I went to take the chain off to give it a clean to see if the kinks would fix and was surprised to see no master link Thumbs Down

I have a Haynes manual on order and I'm going to order a DID standard chain and sprockets https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150879350620?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_1690wt_1397

Do I need a chain tool too?

TIA for any advice.

PS: Could there be any scary ( and expensive ) reason why the chain is kinked so bad?

Thanks

https://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c186/jafahia/2012-09-22220055.jpg
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 18:49 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
It looks really quite new, corrosion free and well lubed. It's a Japanese made chain.

Can the links be moved in relation to one another easily using your fingers?

Can you move the chain up and down on the rear sprocket at the 3 o' clock position?

There is always a degree of stiction from the o-rings on an o-ring type chain If you can move the links back and forth with your fingers and there is no appreciable play in relation to the sprocket, I'd say it's fine.

There is not always a split link present. In terms of strength and security endless > rivett link > split link.

They are not like bicycle chains, you can't just split and rejoin them by pushing pins out with a simple tool. Once you remove a link, that link is dead.

A rivett link looks very similar to the other ones but has a slight dimple in the ends of the pins which should be mushroomed over slightly. An endless chain has all the links the same and requires removal of the swingarm to fit it.

EDIT: That kit you liked to does not mention what type of DID chain it has. They are not all the same, DID make a full range from cheap and nasty standard duty ones to heavy duty x-ring ones.

For your information, a genuine Honda C+S kit retails at £80. Part number: 06406-KWF-P01
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Last edited by stinkwheel on 18:56 - 26 Sep 2012; edited 1 time in total
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bulletmonkey
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
It looks really quite new, corrosion free and well lubed. It's a Japanese made chain.

Can the links be moved in relation to one another easily using your fingers?

Can you move the chain up and down on the rear sprocket at the 3 o' clock position?

There is always a degree of stiction from the o-rings on an o-ring type chain If you can move the links back and forth with your fingers and there is no appreciable play in relation to the sprocket, I'd say it's fine.

There is not always a split link present. In terms of strength and security endless > rivett link > split link.

They are not like bicycle chains, you can't just split and rejoin them by pushing pins out with a simple tool. Once you remove a link, that link is dead.

A rivett link looks very similar to the other ones but has a slight dimple in the ends of the pins which should be mushroomed over slightly. An endless chain has all the links the same and requires removal of the swingarm to fit it.


Hi, cant move the kinks with fingers, but did move them gently with pliers.
Can't move the chain on rear sprocket, it's very tight.

Damn, was hoping it would be an easy job for a noob.
Thanks for reply Smile
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:02 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
bulletmonkey wrote:


Hi, cant move the kinks with fingers, but did move them gently with pliers.
Can't move the chain on rear sprocket, it's very tight.

Damn, was hoping it would be an easy job for a noob.
Thanks for reply Smile


I'd just try working any stiff links back and forth with oil applied to the rollers and see if they free off. Visually check for any cracks in the side-plates where the pins go through as you do so.

As I say, it looks in very good condition from your picture, unless it's been run over-tight at some point. There shouldn't be free play at the rear sprocket. There should be in the middle of the chain run.

Changing it is an easy job. On a 125, you'll get away with a split link and most kits would come with one (so you need pliers and a screwdriver to fit it). If the old one is dead, you can just hacksaw/grind it off.

You need a special tool to fit a rivett link.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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bulletmonkey
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PostPosted: 19:21 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
bulletmonkey wrote:


Hi, cant move the kinks with fingers, but did move them gently with pliers.
Can't move the chain on rear sprocket, it's very tight.

Damn, was hoping it would be an easy job for a noob.
Thanks for reply Smile


I'd just try working any stiff links back and forth with oil applied to the rollers and see if they free off. Visually check for any cracks in the side-plates where the pins go through as you do so.

As I say, it looks in very good condition from your picture, unless it's been run over-tight at some point. There shouldn't be free play at the rear sprocket. There should be in the middle of the chain run.

Changing it is an easy job. On a 125, you'll get away with a split link and most kits would come with one (so you need pliers and a screwdriver to fit it). If the old one is dead, you can just hacksaw/grind it off.

You need a special tool to fit a rivett link.


Thanks very much for the help.
I should of added bike has only done 4300 miles was serviced 900 miles ago.
Chain was dirty before I took the pic, dirt and surface rust where the bike has been sat for a while, I used a toothbrush and wd40, then wiped the gunk of with a rag ( chain was black )

If the kinks stay like that, there are quite a few all the way around chain, should I buy chain and sprocket set?
Thanks
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Bomberman
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
bulletmonkey wrote:

Chain was dirty before I took the pic, dirt and surface rust where the bike has been sat for a while, I used a toothbrush and wd40

Did you get all the wd40 off and then did you relube the chain really, really well before trying to get the kinks out?

But yeah, if you can't get those kinks out, get it replaced. And you may as well do the sprockets too.
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Richy CB1000
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just as a side note, the others are covering the points already.

I believe DID are now made in several places around the world so quality may not be what we're used to.

I've switched to EK 535 grade now, guaranteed made in Japan.

Looking closer and zooming up the page size, the inside faces appear a tad rusty or discoloured? If so that area will need cleaning/lubing as well.

Saying that it looks like an RK chain which are supposed to be a decent brand......
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Nick 50
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 26 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
bulletmonkey wrote:


Thanks very much for the help.
I should of added bike has only done 4300 miles was serviced 900 miles ago.
Chain was dirty before I took the pic, dirt and surface rust where the bike has been sat for a while, I used a toothbrush and wd40, then wiped the gunk of with a rag ( chain was black )

If the kinks stay like that, there are quite a few all the way around chain, should I buy chain and sprocket set?
Thanks


Just to add on to what stinkwheel said. A spring link is much easier for a 125cc and allows you to take the chain off (by removing the spring) and then re-attach it if needs be.

https://images.wemoto.com/full/CHAIN_LINK/10033012.jpg

As for the sprockets. Considering the mileage the bike has done, i'm guessing they should be still be good.

If they are ok, no need to replace them to be honest.

https://www.suzuki-gb.co.uk/_templates/mysuzuki/female/chain_1.jpg


Edit**

To really help get the kinks out you could hacksaw through one of the links. Take the chain off and soak it in some old oil for 24 hours and then clean, stick back on the bike and re-lube.
You can replace the link you hack-sawed through with a spring link. They're £2 for a DID one:

https://www.wemoto.com/bikes/honda/cbf_125_m9_ma/09-10/picture/chain_did_standard_grade_spring_link/
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bulletmonkey
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well I hacked the chain off, soaked it in some gear oil and still couldn't move the kinks even with pliers Sad And there were a lot of them!

I removed back wheel and took front and rear sprockets off, which are still in good nick Rolling Eyes , and ordered a Heavy Duty DID upgrade chain and sprocket set
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130754118258?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619#ht_3775wt_1397

I have some wurth dry lube on order, everyone says to warm chain up before applying lube, do I put a little on then take bike for a spin then add more?

Can I fix spring link with pliers or will I need a little clamp or something?

Thanks very much for help guys Smile I really enjoyed working on the bike today and surprised myself with what I did Smile
I just hope I enjoy it as much when it comes to putting it back together!
Thanks
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Alpha-9
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PostPosted: 15:56 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Was it kinked before you cleaned it Wink
WD40 is bad for Orings, makes them swell and break apparently.


Does look oddly kinked, i'd just replace it personally, get a split link chain, piece of piss to do Thumbs Up
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:15 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alpha-9 wrote:
Was it kinked before you cleaned it Wink
WD40 is bad for Orings, makes them swell and break apparently.


This is not actually the case. I suspect it's a myth perpetuated by chain cleaner manufacturers. WD40 away to your hearts content.

The only bits of your bike that would be damaged to any great extent by WD40 are the air filter and the brake pads. It is not good on the brake discs but can be washed off.

Paraffin is cheaper though.

Just don't use petrol or carb cleaner.

https://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345397
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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bulletmonkey
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PostPosted: 16:36 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alpha-9 wrote:
Was it kinked before you cleaned it Wink
WD40 is bad for Orings, makes them swell and break apparently.


Does look oddly kinked, i'd just replace it personally, get a split link chain, piece of piss to do Thumbs Up


Yea kinked before I touched/bought it.

Have ordered new, see post above Thumbs Up
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mysterious_rider
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well weird how it looks brand new and is stiff.

Is it only me that'd ride it like that? Laughing
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bulletmonkey
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PostPosted: 16:43 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
mysterious_rider wrote:
Well weird how it looks brand new and is stiff.

Is it only me that'd ride it like that? Laughing


What do you think would cause it to kink like that when it looks newish?

I'm only asking as to try and avoid doing that to the new chain I just ordered Rolling Eyes
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Islander
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PostPosted: 16:56 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
You'd said that the bike had been standing and you had to remove surface rust from the chain?

I'd say that you've also got rust between the plates and that's what's causing them to bind and kink.
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mysterious_rider
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
bulletmonkey wrote:
mysterious_rider wrote:
Well weird how it looks brand new and is stiff.

Is it only me that'd ride it like that? Laughing


What do you think would cause it to kink like that when it looks newish?

I'm only asking as to try and avoid doing that to the new chain I just ordered Rolling Eyes


I've honestly no idea. A brand new chain should be free and have no stiff links. It's a new one for me fella! I had one stiff link in my brand new DID chain so i let it get on with it's own thing. Been fine so far.
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Bomberman
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
bulletmonkey wrote:


What do you think would cause it to kink like that when it looks newish?

I'm only asking as to try and avoid doing that to the new chain I just ordered Rolling Eyes

Really don't know? Compression from the sides, but how? Run with a badly off line rear wheel/sprocket? No idea at all.

Also, in answer to your earlier Q. pliers will be fine for a spring clip Thumbs Up
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Last edited by Bomberman on 16:57 - 27 Sep 2012; edited 1 time in total
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
bulletmonkey wrote:
mysterious_rider wrote:
Well weird how it looks brand new and is stiff.

Is it only me that'd ride it like that? Laughing


What do you think would cause it to kink like that when it looks newish?

I'm only asking as to try and avoid doing that to the new chain I just ordered Rolling Eyes


Just lube it with light oil or quality chain lube. I suspect the chain that is in the pic is salvageable. I'd have taken it off and left it in a bath of used engine oil to see if it frees off personally...
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Redoko
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
When sorting my chain on my old SRAD I found it had a few stiff links. I'm pretty sure I made a thread about it.

In the end chucking it in a bucket of oil and leaving it for a day worked a treat.

Thumbs Up
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lukamon
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PostPosted: 23:41 - 27 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
that is the WRONG chain. you need (well ok dont NEED but could really do with) an oring chain like the bike origionally came with. like it says halfway down that ebay page, do not replace your chain with a standard chain if it came with an o-ring one, which the cbf did.

on another note, get one of these: it really transforms the bike and doesn't sound like its being thrashed at 60 due to slightly longer gearing

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CBF-125-Front-Sprocket-17-Tooth-/350558255000?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item519ee67798
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bulletmonkey
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PostPosted: 07:20 - 28 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
lukamon wrote:
that is the WRONG chain. you need (well ok dont NEED but could really do with) an oring chain like the bike origionally came with. like it says halfway down that ebay page, do not replace your chain with a standard chain if it came with an o-ring one, which the cbf did.

on another note, get one of these: it really transforms the bike and doesn't sound like its being thrashed at 60 due to slightly longer gearing

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CBF-125-Front-Sprocket-17-Tooth-/350558255000?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item519ee67798


I don't understand, they sell a cheaper set which makes it sound like its the same as the chain that came with the bike, and this chain is meant to be an upgrade to that? Paid for it now Crying or Very sad
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lukamon
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PostPosted: 10:08 - 28 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah the page is confusing. If you look closely it says "standard" chain. Easily (but not to be) confused with standard FIT.

Standard chains are the same as pushbike chains. They're ok for lower power bikes but they stretch much easier and generally don't last as long because the moving parts become starved of oil very easily.

That ebay page has illustrations of different types.

Seriously though, spend an extra fiver and get the sprocket I linked. It transforms the bike Thumbs Up
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 28 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
mysterious_rider wrote:
Well weird how it looks brand new and is stiff.

Is it only me that'd ride it like that? Laughing


Nope. My chain currently looks very similar to OPs, I'm still riding like it. I just make sure I keep it lubed well and it's fine. Certainly doesn't feel bad whilst riding.

I actually think that now I've stopped abusing the chain and starting keeping up the maintenance, the kinks are actually starting to go.

Anyway, I just span the rear wheel slowly and the kinks always went away when they reached the sprocket and sat flush with the sprocket. That's how I decided it was fine to ride.

I would get a new chain and sprocket kit, but it's money I don't really have!
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 28 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
:D if its a non o ring chain, boil in oil, check that every link articulates and every roller rolls, remember which way the chain split link clips fits, ie, feet back with rounded end frontwards chain direction wise.

on your bike the chain top run travels in the direction of the bike when goin forward.

wemoto cheapo chains seem good, so far anyways. swift brand on low cc bikes.
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mysterious_rider
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PostPosted: 18:40 - 28 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Forget swift. They seem bargain prices, but I bought a set for a restricted 33bhp gs500, and it lasted probably 4k miles at the most. Absolute ripoff. The chain stretched so much, it mullered the sprockets.

I recently purchased a DID chain (x ring or whatever) and I adjusted it only the once when first fitted, and I've done about 3k miles on it and it still doesn't need adjusting. Top stuff! Only like £30 more than the swift stuff.....

No brainer.
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