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my theory on how to travel faster than the speed of light

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fredsredhat
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: my theory on how to travel faster than the speed of light Reply with quote
as i understand it takes an infinate amount of energy to travel faster than the speed of light. BUT. imagine a BIG doughnut shaped (large hadron collider type thing) in a vacuum a large train connected to itself going round in circles. totally flat backed . on top of that was another train. then another, then another...... each time it doubles the speed. apart from the weight that the bottom train has to carry what's stopping going 1000's of trains high. each train only needs enough power to go say 100mph?
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swampy
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PostPosted: 22:02 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Step away from the shrooms man
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 22:03 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Please let me know what you're smoking Cool
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Rob W
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
I actually like cheese.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Damn - beaten again!
At least I wasn't the only one thinking it!
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 22:18 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you reversed it would you go back in time?
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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 22:22 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bear with me as I'm not a physicist but effectively the reason that you need infinite energy to accelerate beyond light speed is because of the fact that as things are going faster and carrying more energy they are becoming heavier (mass-energy equivalence). Beyond light speed you have infinite mass and therefore need infinite energy to accelerate further.

In other words, it doesn't matter if each individual train is only doing 100mph, the top one is still trying to move at light speed and therefore has too much mass to accelerate more.
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fredsredhat
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PostPosted: 22:28 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
T0MMY wrote:
Bear with me as I'm not a physicist but effectively the reason that you need infinite energy to accelerate beyond light speed is because of the fact that as things are going faster and carrying more energy they are becoming heavier (mass-energy equivalence). Beyond light speed you have infinite mass and therefore need infinite energy to accelerate further.

In other words, it doesn't matter if each individual train is only doing 100mph, the top one is still trying to move at light speed and therefore has too much mass to accelerate more.

thats me proved wrong and ill get back to my budweiser then Thumbs Up
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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 22:34 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, I'm afraid the nobel prize may have to wait Laughing
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supZ
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PostPosted: 22:41 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
T0MMY wrote:
Bear with me as I'm not a physicist but effectively the reason that you need infinite energy to accelerate beyond light speed is because of the fact that as things are going faster and carrying more energy they are becoming heavier (mass-energy equivalence). Beyond light speed you have infinite mass and therefore need infinite energy to accelerate further.

In other words, it doesn't matter if each individual train is only doing 100mph, the top one is still trying to move at light speed and therefore has too much mass to accelerate more.


what you're trying to say is the amount of energy required increases exponentially as you approach the speed of light.

there is no finite amount of energy required

its not that we just 'dont have the poooowa capt'n' its that the amount of power required will always exceed whats available.

but...

https://www.space.com/17628-warp-drive-possible-interstellar-spaceflight.html
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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 22:48 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
supZ wrote:

what you're trying to say is the amount of energy required increases exponentially as you approach the speed of light.

there is no finite amount of energy required


Yep and in fact I should have said infinite mass at light speed not beyond as the lorentz factor approaches infinite as you approach the speed of light. This is also not the only reason we cannot travel at the speed of light but it's the only one I understand well enough to explain to someone who is drinking Laughing
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Last edited by T0MMY on 22:56 - 05 Oct 2012; edited 1 time in total
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
The speed of light can be exceeded
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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 22:57 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Which bit of that page are you referring to Ariel?
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colin1
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
T0MMY wrote:
Which bit of that page are you referring to Ariel?


none of it, as none of it supports ariels notion
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Benno
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Re: my theory on how to travel faster than the speed of ligh Reply with quote
fredsredhat wrote:
as i understand it takes an infinate amount of energy to travel faster than the speed of light. BUT. imagine a BIG doughnut shaped (large hadron collider type thing) in a vacuum a large train connected to itself going round in circles. totally flat backed . on top of that was another train. then another, then another...... each time it doubles the speed. apart from the weight that the bottom train has to carry what's stopping going 1000's of trains high. each train only needs enough power to go say 100mph?


A stick a light year long. A person at each end of the stick. Person A prods person B with the stick. The 'prod' travel instantaneously to person B.

You essentially just invented teleportation. Enjoy your money and women.


Edit: Also, make a huge disc, start it spinning fast enough, and the edges will be 'moving' faster than the speed of light while the middle can be moving at a relatively sedate speed.

The laws of physics have workarounds Laughing
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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 23:04 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why does the stick need to be a light year long?

EDIT:...for your edit

The edge of the disc that is approaching light speed is still needing too much energy to accelerate further Wink

The laws of physics might have work arounds but not simple ones Laughing
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Islander
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PostPosted: 23:06 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ariel Badger wrote:
The speed of light can be exceeded


Not in a vacuum. In a vacuum the speed of light is an absolute. There's a hypothesis that carrying a parcel of local space time around a vehicle would permit the speed of light in a vacuum to be exceeded (your vehicle isn't, the space time is) this is the Alcubierre effect. In fact the universe itself is exceeding the speed of light at the furthest points of its expansion which is why there's a limit to what we can see. This is permitted as it's not happening inside the universe.

In another medium it can though. The ethereal blue glow around spent fuel elements in a spent fuel pool at a nuclear reprocessing plant or nuclear power station is caused by radioactive decay particles travelling faster than the speed of light (phase velocity) in water - the effect is called Cherenkov radiation.

The train experiment would need impossibly strong materials. In reality it would simply fly apart under the stresses caused by the differential velocities.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 23:10 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Re: my theory on how to travel faster than the speed of ligh Reply with quote
Benno wrote:
fredsredhat wrote:
as i understand it takes an infinate amount of energy to travel faster than the speed of light. BUT. imagine a BIG doughnut shaped (large hadron collider type thing) in a vacuum a large train connected to itself going round in circles. totally flat backed . on top of that was another train. then another, then another...... each time it doubles the speed. apart from the weight that the bottom train has to carry what's stopping going 1000's of trains high. each train only needs enough power to go say 100mph?


A stick a light year long. A person at each end of the stick. Person A prods person B with the stick. The 'prod' travel instantaneously to person B.

You essentially just invented teleportation. Enjoy your money and women.


Edit: Also, make a huge disc, start it spinning fast enough, and the edges will be 'moving' faster than the speed of light while the middle can be moving at a relatively sedate speed.

The laws of physics have workarounds Laughing


The stick would be moving at the speed you pushed it. It's impossible though because the energy needed to move a stick that long would be unachievable (just consider the mass of the thing).

The spinning disc would fly apart long before you got it anywhere near light speed - the forces involved with the differential velocities would be very very large. Wink
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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 23:14 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:

Not in a vacuum. In a vacuum the speed of light is an absolute. There's a hypothesis that carrying a parcel of local space time around a vehicle would permit the speed of light in a vacuum to be exceeded (your vehicle isn't, the space time is) this is the Alcubierre effect. In fact the universe itself is exceeding the speed of light at the furthest points of its expansion which is why there's a limit to what we can see. This is permitted as it's not happening inside the universe.

In another medium it can though. The ethereal blue glow around spent fuel elements in a spent fuel pool at a nuclear reprocessing plant or nuclear power station is caused by radioactive decay particles travelling faster than the speed of light (phase velocity) in water - the effect is called Cherenkov radiation.

The train experiment would need impossibly strong materials. In reality it would simply fly apart under the stresses caused by the differential velocities.


I'm pretty sure that's no true but I'm going to have to do some googling to confirm it as I know nothing about Cherenkov radiation. No particle with mass can travel at the speed of light (as far as we currently know) and I'm pretty sure there isn't a routine, well described phenomenon involving that happening!

As for the universe...that too cannot be expanding faster than the speed of light.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 23:14 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Re: my theory on how to travel faster than the speed of ligh Reply with quote
fredsredhat wrote:
as i understand it takes an infinate amount of energy to travel faster than the speed of light. BUT. imagine a BIG doughnut shaped (large hadron collider type thing) in a vacuum a large train connected to itself going round in circles. totally flat backed . on top of that was another train. then another, then another...... each time it doubles the speed. apart from the weight that the bottom train has to carry what's stopping going 1000's of trains high. each train only needs enough power to go say 100mph?


So using the figures from your equation can you tell what the train drivers have on the sandwiches in their lunch boxes?
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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 23:16 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Re: my theory on how to travel faster than the speed of ligh Reply with quote
Islander wrote:

The stick would be moving at the speed you pushed it. It's impossible though because the energy needed to move a stick that long would be unachievable (just consider the mass of the thing).


Might have to call you out on that too...even if the stick were only a metre long and therefore light enough to push, the signal you have sent down it (the poke) still doesn't exceed the speed of light. It appears instant to us at that scale but it isn't. You're effectively sending a wave down the stick and that wave cannot exceed the speed of light.
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Benno
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
T0MMY wrote:
Why does the stick need to be a light year long?

EDIT:...for your edit

The edge of the disc that is approaching light speed is still needing too much energy to accelerate further Wink

The laws of physics might have work arounds but not simple ones Laughing


I've still got more potential workarounds Razz

I once read that the edge of a DVD spins close to the speed of light. Sounds like bullshit but...well, but nothing.

Also, this stick thing, the only thing travelling faster than light is the conceptual 'prod'.

This train experiment sounds like the firing a gun from a bullet experiment. A series of guns and bullets with gun firers on each. First bullet fires, second bullet fires from the first bullet, third bullet fires from the second bullet, and so on, until one of them exceeds the speed of light.

Also, speed is relative, so two trains/objects passing each other at .75 light speed would be travelling, relative to each other, faster than light.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
T0MMY wrote:

I'm pretty sure that's no true but I'm going to have to do some googling to confirm it as I know nothing about Cherenkov radiation. No particle with mass can travel at the speed of light (as far as we currently know) and I'm pretty sure there isn't a routine, well described phenomenon involving that happening!

As for the universe...that too cannot be expanding faster than the speed of light.


The speed of light is only an absolute in a vacuum. In a medium like glass or water, it's considerably slower and a fast particle can indeed exceed the local speed of light - not the speed of light in a vacuum (c)

As for the universe, the absolute (c) only applies within the universe itself - it's not expanding into itself and therefore it is allowed. Wink
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Islander
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PostPosted: 23:21 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Re: my theory on how to travel faster than the speed of ligh Reply with quote
T0MMY wrote:
Islander wrote:

The stick would be moving at the speed you pushed it. It's impossible though because the energy needed to move a stick that long would be unachievable (just consider the mass of the thing).


Might have to call you out on that too...even if the stick were only a metre long and therefore light enough to push, the signal you have sent down it (the poke) still doesn't exceed the speed of light. It appears instant to us at that scale but it isn't. You're effectively sending a wave down the stick and that wave cannot exceed the speed of light.


Read what I said again - the speed of the stick is the speed you pushed it at. I didn't say it would exceed the speed of light Wink
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 23:24 - 05 Oct 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Light speed is redundant.
A particle can be in more than one place at any moment in time. Or several places at the same time.

So no need for light speed as we are everywhere and nowhere. (Baby)
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