Ex Military Cagiva

[Neepling]

Hi all,

I've spent the last couple of years looking for a satisfying alternative ride to my ZX6R.
I realise I've been quite fussy as I'm looking for something that is fun, sturdy and generally winterproof and will survive a drop.

Basically something in a dirtbike style without being a complete chav magnet.

I've just seen a website selling ex French Militray Cagiva (Elefants?? not sure). Going by looks alone - it's so ugly I love it!

They have both 2 stroke 125's and 4 stroke 350's - I'm torn between the 2 - a 2 stroke 125 may be a mad little thing, but I would like a higher cc ( and possibly less grief due to a 2 strokes general fondness of ripping itself apart).

Does anybody know anything about these bikes? All info greatly recieved.

cheers

John

[map]

Found a Cagiva on milweb classified. Does not appear to be same model as in pic.

Link here and image...
https://www.milweb.net/classifieds/classpics/63997.jpg

Take it you're looking at manxdirect.com site?
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Gibbs, what did Duckie look like when he was younger?

[Shaft]

I wouldn't swear to it, but I think the Elefant had a Duke V twin.

I don't know anything about these, but if they're similar to the British military 350 singles (which have a Rotax motor) they're a farking hoot.

A mate bought one last year and it seems like the perfect winter bike; pretty much everything is reinforced in some way, so they crash really well and they aren't overendowed with performance, so you aren't going to get yourself into much trouble.

All that reinforcing does add a bit of weight though, so I would think the 125 is to be avoided, even if it's likely to be a full power engine.
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20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
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[TheSmiler]

Look on ebay recently the site has been full of them got a feeling the french are switching models or replacing all stock.
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[Teflon-Mike]

Hmm... Cagiva started up from the remnants of various defunct italian bike businesses acquired by the Castilioni brothers, Fantic being the corner-stone of thier enterprise. They bought up parts of teh old De-Thomaso group I think, that owned Benelli & a major share in Moto-Guzzi... and I think a chunk of Italjet was in there too.

I am HAZY on this so don't take it as gospal.

Anyway the Guzzi / Binelli partnership was to fund an all new state of the art factory (circa 1977!) to make two-stroke bikes; Guzzi had a lot of Italian 'services' contracts, they had something like five different branches of police, militia and armed forces, and Guzi supplied bikes to every-one from the forrest rangers, to parking wardens, police and army.....

Meanwhile Benelli were hapily ripping off Suzuki & Honda designs & Guzzi were hapily sticking teh Guzzi badge on them....

There was then Fantic who were making thier own motors and italjet who used Minerelli motors and then thier own derivatives of them....

And the upshot IS.... dealing with the vaguries of the italian motorcycle industry of the late 70's, 80's & early 90's...... is a bit of a mine field!

Guzzi were eager to make models specifric for thier government contracts, and even long standing stable design bikes like the Falcone or V50 have HUGE numbers of variants and differences in the 'government' models, then you find little curiosities with air-cooled two stoke engines that seem rather like DT175's with a single seat?!? That seem to have no known civilian basis?!?

In Classic Trials, Fantics WERE cutting edge championship bikes in the T-Shock era, but the lack of product stability and poor spares support means that these days they are one of the worst choices for restoration & classic competition... you just cant bank on being able to fix'em when they break.

'Transition-Era' Cagiva's I would suspect are likely to be even worse, especially if the model in question was never officially imported to the UK and you cant even get genuine data for them.

Looking at that pic, showing air-cooled two-stroke.... I would want to do an AWFUL lot of research to know what I was buying before I commited to it, and I suspect that that would necessitate me learning two new european languages

I do rather like the 900 Elephant, though; Ducati Paso motor in a trail-bike frame And, come on, who could resist being able to say "Well I ride an Elephant!"
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[Neepling]

After a little more investigation, the 350s for sale may be Cagiva T4Es. I can't find much about them. Anyone know of them?

Is buying an ex militry import likely to be a money pit in terms of keeping it running?

[CarlosCBR]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=cagiva+military&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Been looking for a winter hack myself recently. If i hadnt financed the 600 i would DEFINITELY be buying one. They look perfect for winter.

Do you think you can specify that they come with gun holster and white flag also?
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[J4mes]

Considered the HD Mt350?

[Polarbear]

Stealth Switch (Kill All Electrics But Bike Still Runs)

I am so tempted
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[truslack]

[stevo as b4]

The Cagiva pictured looks to me like a special market/modified version of the late 1990's W8 125cc trail bike. The W8 was offered in the early 90's as a Mito/Supercity engined serious trail/enduro style bike, much like an Aprilia RX125.

They then went back to an air cooled 125cc engine, looks to be the same unit as the Cagiva roadster 125, possibly with an extra few bhp from the expansion chamber exhaust system. The seat, tank and bodywork looks different to a W8 on that military bike, but the frame forks and engine is definitely W8. Seeing as they were sold until around 2000 I would expect that you can still get a fair few parts for them?

I nearly brought a new W8 in 99, but found a mint KMX200 instead. I think the air cooled engine is only lightly restricted to 12bhp for the uk, and the full power engine is about 15/16bhp maximum once any restrictors have been removed.

I think the 350cc 4stroke bikes would be a better bet, but any Cagiva trail bike will be a challenge to find parts for easily unlike something like a DT125R or DR350 etc.

[Kickstart]

[Yoyo]

Wow was just about to go o bed but:
Unstoppable force vs Immovable object.

I want to see the outcome of this.

Is Tef going to finally pipe down to Kickstart or fight his loosing corner.
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[Neepling]

After some more investigation, it appears that the 350 is a W12, but according to the internet the seat height is about 5 inches higher than my ZX6R - so probably a no go I'm only 5'7'' so my legs will probably be dangling

[Vincent]

Before buying one, I'd check out the availability of parts, new and used. I briefly had a Canyonaero and it was not easy and very expensive.
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[blurredman]

[nowhere.elysium]

[Teflon-Mike]

[nowhere.elysium]

[Kickstart]

[stevo as b4]

The Morini Dart 350 had a Cagiva Freccia chassis I think, and is a pretty rare 80's bike now!

As for Fantic/Italjet etc, well as other's have said Cagiva used to sell their own 2stroke motor's to other Italian manufacturers, and indeed with the exception of some water cooled 125cc Fantic engines, I bet all the 2stroke 125 trail bikes in the 80's-90's built in Italy were powered by either the Cagiva, Gilera, or Rotax 2stroke engines. Beta did make their own motor's and Italjet used mostly Minarelli engines, and maybe a few Cagiva and Beta engines in their larger trail bikes.

Laverda used to use Zundapp 125 cc engines, and then they did a watercooled top end for them. Not long after that they too went to Cagiva for their 2stroke engines.

I think Fantic are back in business again now offering smart enduro/supermoto 125's and 200's using the Yamaha/Minarelli 4valve injected engine, and also offering quite gorgeous competition machines with Gas Gas 125/250 and 300cc engines.

[Teflon-Mike]

[Kickstart]

[Teflon-Mike]

[Kickstart]