Depression/mental illness: a big ol myth?

[Mondeo Man]

tl: dr: "depression" is make believe, we all play along in the fantasy.


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We are, of course, forever talking about how we don't talk about mental illness. Not a day goes by when we are not told, and telling ourselves, that the issue is a "hidden" secret that no one talks about. Kinda like the Victorians who were "sexually repressed" but, in reality, never stopped banging on about it. Each week some other self-congratulatory celebrity "confesses" to being a bit depressed in the past (usually coincides with book release), and we all applaud her openness, unquestionably, because...."NO ONE EVER TALKS ABOUT IT" don't you know, and....

"1/4 suffer from it" we are constantly told, "it's just like cancer!" they preach. Except it's not really, is it.

Cancer is a real illness, most of what we think of as mental illness is METAPHORICAL illness.

There are two general frameworks, for seeing, say, depression:
Medical model
The Social model.

1. Medical model reduces mentality to sheer chemistry: you are a result of your brain chemicals.

2. The social model positions your mentality in the context of the life you lead, have led, your upbringing, your hopes and fears, etc.

That's putting it very simply.

We have this weird set up in society where most lay people who have thought about it a bit, would say 2 is the reason people get depressed. Extreme example: You've been raped by your neighbour (life event) - you're miserable (life problem). Yet we continue to tell ourselves, as a society, we believe in 1 (it's an "illness" than can strike anyone, any time!) and we treat it as such (must adjust brain chemistry by any means).

Bullshit does depression strike like the cold. Metaphorically it does, sure. No one really believes it does literally, but bizarrely, we keep telling ourselves we do. Why?

A lack of personal responsibility. Rather than taking responsibility for how we feel - truth is, if you're UNHAPPY it's probably because you've fucked up your life, you're stuck in a shitty job, shitty marriage etc - etc. Life is actually predisposed to UNHAPPINESS (read Schopenhauer). People have always been unhappy. That's being human. Only with the rise of big pharma, and the medical framework, did this unhappiness get converted into "depression" which we can "fight" with "treatment".

Our ancestors just got on with it. Some used their unhappiness as a motor to greatness, most just lived and died, riding the highs and lows of life. In our age, we are scared of lows, we don't like to ride the rawness of life, we hide from it all with myths.

There is no proof of "depression" existing, and there can never be, because it is a mere conceptual framework. People link it to, say, low serotonin levels, but that isn't proof. No more so than heightened levels of serotonin proves happiness is a "disease". Low serotonin levels don't "prove" the existence of depression any more than it does damnation for past sins: rather a brain pattern is found, and a framework applied (one medical, the other religious).

Further thoughts
- Counselling is a myth. It is just conversation with a paid-for friend. Counsellors have no special skills other than having to (unlike others) listen to people's shit.

- People who claim depression are making excuses to themselves for their flaws and failings. "Oh, it's nothing to do with me, I was innocently minding my business, and bam, this depression thing hit me." Bollocks. You're unhappy because your life isn't what you want it to be. Perhaps it never can be.

- There is no stigma. If you feel people are "stigmatising" you perhaps it's because you're actually a c***. Of course, it's easily to blame brain chemistry than face that fact. Regarding those who are cuntish beyond description, we *should* discriminate against them. Mentalists should be kept out of positions of power, for example.

- No one actually cares about those described as "mentally ill" anyway. It's a sugar coated pretence. That's why the "treatment" involves fobbing them off with others, or trying to silence them as soon as possible with pills (when that fails, lock em away out of sight). Example of this: a friend saying to an unhappy other "you need to speak with someone". This is seen as compassionate, but it's dismissive, "don't bother me with it"

- That's why the depression myth is so powerful. It's so useful.
> It reduces the problem to utter redundancy (brain chemistry). What about links to poverty, what about exploring ideas of social life being utterly discordant with biological need, etc? That wouldn't be good for anyone.
> It excuses the individual from taking responsibility.
> It excuses those around the unhappily sop from taking responsibility
> It's win around.


The most compassionate, most loving thing to say to a depressed person, is also the most maligned, and that's to say "pull your socks up, lass". If you are a miserable waster, as "depressed" people are (there's no sin in that: 99% of humans who ever lived were/are wasters), that's the only thing that will better the situation.

[MarJay]

I don't know what to say to this. I haven't read so much nonsense on this forum in a long time.

Depression is NOT just feeling sad I'm afraid. It has physical manifestations and can strike people who have nothing to feel sad about.

If people with depression just needed to man up... how much easier would my life be?

You clearly know nothing of the subject, and I suggest you shut up now before you get flamed.
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[JonB]

'Tis the season to be trollin', trolololollolololol.
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[Mondeo Man]

[janner_10]

You're a fucking idiot.
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[The Artist]

I am not on anyones side here but can someone who has been depressed tell me what it is like exactly?

I have been sad and miserable before, sometimes for weeks/months at a time, but I wouldn't call it depression. Just a bad time in my life and I just did stuff, mainly working and was fine after.

It is true though, whenever anyone says they are depressed, no one can say just man up otherwise they will get a load of abuse, even if the depressed person isn't clinically depressed.

[Pete.]

There's a pattern to the OP's started topics that says a lot about him.
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[JonB]

Quite often people who are depressed don't know they are depressed, but some symptoms are obvious to people on the outside.

Like owning a Mondeo.
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[Blau Zedong]

[iMark]

[chrisw]

OP, you're a naive fool.

If the only experience of depression you've had is someone mistaking a low mood with depression then I can understand you're assumption that the best fix is to tell someone to 'pull their socks up'.

You need to look at severe cases before assuming all sufferers are the same. A key example are those who's mental illness stems from any form of child abuse. Don't assume by that I mean sexual abuse, there are many forms that can have the same results.

In those cases there have been studies showing that the stress reaction triggered by those situations alters physical structures in the brain.

While that sounds like it will only cover a small percentage of those diagnosed with depression/mental illness you have to remember we STILL don't understand the real workings of the brain and how, for example, prolonged exposure to stressful situations affect us.

Another example is PTSD. Another form of mental illness which can be triggered by anything and can result in the same type of behaviours as untreated depression.

[nowhere.elysium]

[MaybeGuy]

To be honest, ''depressed'' people are just weak, and unable to control how they feel.
Pathetic really. I've encountered a few, and it's just annoying, it's like MTFU or something. Which is why I agreed with OP, and I VERY rarely rate karma stuff on here,
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[janner_10]

[Blau Zedong]

[J.M.]

Depression is a serious thing; not just a state of mind.

You can always tell apart the people who've experienced it/been directly affected by it and the people that haven't. The people that haven't simply tell the person to MTFU. The others want them to MTFU but know that it's difficult.

I slightly agree that there is a fine line between a state of mind and depression. I've felt depressed before for months/years but wouldn't say that I had a condition at all. Rather it was induced because a part of me wanted to feel that way; not allowing myself to be happy because life wasn't going as I wanted it to. So in my case a dose of MTFU was all that was needed.

I disagree of the therapist thing though. Therapists aren't just a paid for friend. They are a paid for friend, yes, someone that you can talk to. However they understand how your mind works a lot better than your friends do and can identify root causes and help you to overcome the root cause.

I find when talking to friends you generally have a few categories:
- Ones that don't care
- Ones that offer terrible/no advice
- Ones that offer good advice
- Ones which try and make you get out and do something and/or get wasted

I would split that up in to a few different categories, in the respective order above:
- Ones that don't care
- Ones that can't understand the situation well enough to offer good advice
- Ones that understand you and the situation well enough to offer good advice
- Bros

Also there's the saying "Burden your friends and soon you wont have any."

Matt's reply backs up the statement above, for the reasons below.

Answer honestly... if you have a friend in which every conversation you have they need lots of attention and are always moaning and feeling sorry for themselves... do you enjoy talking to that person?

The answer is no. I am or have been that person for a lot of people and whilst I like helping them, it gets so frustrating and you just get fed up of it. It gets to the point where you may even actively avoid having to have a conversation with such a person because you know it's going to be difficult and drag your mood down. I've also been in the position before where being in that state of mind has made people fed up of me.

That's where a therapist helps. You burden the therapist instead of your friends 24/7.

Edit: There's also the very real possibility that the person is in such a state of mind because they have nobody they can talk to.
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[MaybeGuy]

[Pete.]

If you view everything that simplistically you'll never have to worry about depression that's for sure...
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Mondeo Man]

I notice that none of you can actually engage with the issue.

Just:

1. Insult me.

2. Quote Mind (Frankly, who cares. Mind have been recycling the same trite cliches and truisms for years. Come back when you've read something critical, i.e. Szasz, or Berger, et al)

It's amazing how uncritical people can be when it is convenient for them to believe something. Most people don't even realise that mental illness is a very flimsy concept in academia.

3. Tell me how bad "depression" is. Which is irrelevant. I'm not denying that the symptoms that get reduced in our age to a "mental illness" called "depression" are unpleasant. I'm just denying that such mental states constitute an "illness" at all.

[Hetzer]

Mondeo Man is right in one regard, wrong in the other. Depression is real, in as much as it is a physical or psychological condition. Nobody imagines depression, that would be like imagining laughter or love or sadness. Depression is an emotion and if one feels it it is real, end of.

If its cause is physical (squiffy brain chemistry) it can be treated with drugs. If its cause is psychological it can be treated with counselling.

However, both the above ignore the uniquely human attributes of self awareness (sentience, or more accurately sapience) and will. Unlike all other lifeforms on this planet we are able to reflect upon the self and observe our own feelings objectively. How well we do that (or not well) depends on our level of intelligence and inclination (though it could be said, in this context, that inclination is just one function of intelligence).

Both stupid and clever people may find that by expressing their depression they get a satisfying reward, the compassionate attention of others, and use it for that end until everyone is sick of them. Some intelligent people would prefer not to be such a burden, and in their case will comes into play, the will to overcome what they objectively recognize as a problem that needs to be sorted.

Will cannot cure depression, but it can override its effects, at least to the point where one is not a burden on others. It's not so much MTFU but more STFU. Embrace it like a Zen state or isolate it in a bubble, whatever works.

Recognize this reality, that no matter how much you think others are sympathising with you they will, eventually, get sick to their back teeth hearing about it. Why? Because almost everyone has enough shit on their plates to be depressed and need their emotional energies to deal with their own internal challenges.

You're going to die, that is an irrefutable fact...but only your body. Again. This is a fucking video game so stop taking it so seriously and live for the day, live for each petty and pathetic moment of pleasure and take pleasure in the pleasure of others. That is as good as it gets. Recognize that reality and stop thinking there's going to be some awesome moment of revelation that'll make everything all right. Everything is already all right, even if you have terminal cancer, because this is just a game.

STFU, MTFU, stop whining and bitching, enjoy the pain, embrace it, stop giving a fuck, OWN IT.
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[Skudd]

For me it manifested itself as not giving a care about myself, not washing, keeping clean, loosing all respect in my appearance. Wanting to curl up in a little ball and do nothing except be alone with my thoughts, very negative thoughts.
The only thing that kept me together was work, not letting my kids down and noyt wanting to scratch my bike. Although I was a big lad before, I put on 5-6 stone in less than 6-12 months, that was just from comfort eating. On a bright sunny day when I could have been out on the bike, I would just curl up and wish the day away.
That isn't normal, well it is for depression, but not for those who aren't suffering.
I would cling on to the day and time of my little chat with a nice lady. They were something to focus on, somewhere that I could just say what I wanted and she put iot all into context for me to tyhink about until next time we met.
Depression is something that I once thought of as just MTFU, I don't now. There are plenty who do play on it, those tend to be the ones who get six months paid sick pay for being off from work and they treat it like a little extra holiday, themn there are those who are actually out of pocket with it, or those of us who have to keep working no matter what.
Depression comes in all shades, once you realise what it is you realise how many people actually have it and how many different ways people cope with it. Mine is work, my kids and manning the fuck up as people put it, but that isn't right for everyone.
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[Rogerborg]

OP, did you take a "free personality test" from Tom Cruise?
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[Pete.]

[Rogerborg]

Is he a Scientologist too?

Scientologists believe that mental illness is just evil alien spirits that you can get rid of by donating enough money. Seems to make about as much sense as Mundano's screed.
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[Flatbadger]

Not to say depression isn't real, but sufferers can be exploited by the shrink industry and drug manufacturers. it is certainly in these unscrupulous groups' interests not to look for simpler solutions.
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