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| bramerz |
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bramerz
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| WannaBeDude |
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WannaBeDude
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 Posted: 22:25 - 06 Oct 2012  Post subject: |
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Called trade in for a 125 .. best upgrade available 
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bramerz
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WannaBeDude
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| Posted: 22:31 - 06 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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I can assure you a year now is long and in not toolong a year will be short.
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| _Iain_ |
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_Iain_
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| Posted: 22:38 - 06 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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Zorst is shit & washer on variator. Upjet wasnt needed on the typhoon & they share an engine, although confirm this with a plug chop.
Some kind of EGR system too which needs disconnecting as it gums the air filter up with two smoke crap.
Watch the rev counter after & bear in mind that 50mph is usually enough to rev the engine past 12,000. The one i borrowed redlined at 8,000. Revving it to the moon will make it go bang pretty quick if you do it all the time.
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| weasley |
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weasley
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| neil. |
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neil.
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| Matt- |
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Matt-
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weasley
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| Walloper |
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Walloper
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| WillOdling |
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WillOdling
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Walloper
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WillOdling
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| Posted: 16:51 - 07 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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I enjoyed the comment by one guy saying “good for showing few folk up at the lights i'll wager?”
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| Walloper |
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Walloper
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| _Iain_ |
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_Iain_
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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Posted: 08:15 - 08 Oct 2012  Post subject: Re: Derestricting a 50cc |
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| Walloper wrote: | It won't go dat much faster than it is now if de-restricted. |
| _Iain_ wrote: | to 55-60mph? Nearly a 100% increase in top speed with a good chunk more acceleration. Would consider that significant enough to make it worthwhile! |
Legal speed limit has incrementally come down; pre 1977 there was no speed restriction, but the bike HAD to be capable of being propelled by pedals..... from 77 on, didn't have to have pedals, but had to be speed restricted to 35mph, metricisation & EU harmonisation has seen that come down to around 30.
Get an old pre '77 FSIE, and as long as it still has the pedals, and they can still drive the back wheel, AND the engine displacement remains under 50cc then they CAN legally go as fast as they are able....
Stock the FSIE was rated to 50mph. Properly ported and tuned, geared to suit, but still under 50cc, they could get to about 60-65, but they needed frequent rebuilds.
The modern minerelli motored 'fast 50's in full power form, with all the advances of water cooling and power valves, are only 'just' about as fast, and seeminly barely any more reliable.
In the tiddler era, the 50cc GP bikes regularly achieved 80-90mph speeds, but only on the longer tracks where they could gear them long. Small problem of rather short engine life, basically one race, though!
Think that Bonaville speed record for naturally aspirated 50 running pump fuel, and not enclosed stream-lining is still only just over the ton.....
55-60 from a twist and go with the aerodynamics of a wheelie bin, and a power sapping variator transmission?
In favourable conditions.. slight incline, wind behind you...
Indicated. Perhaps. Might as well stick an mph->Km/h speedo heeler in and get an indicated speed of 50+out of it.
Realistically? genuine 50 is still good going for a 50cc. Heck, its still good going for many lower quality 125's!
Meanwhile...... an extra 20mph, what, almost 70% more speed? Is it worth it?
Well, moment you go over 40, pretty damned obviouse they can chuck the book at you for no licence, no insurance, other than described on the V5, exceeding statutory speed limit for vehicle type......
Yup...... whats the score on the board?
Siezed, impounded and crushed bike, for starters, on at least two counts; other than described on log book and no valid insurance. Speeding? 4 points, no licence? whats that six? No insurance? Another six? Well, there goes the licence you don't have.
Mandatory Disqualification for probably at least two years; so for the sake of waiting it out a few months, you'll be off the road a fair old while..... because when you get the provisional back.... well, young riders don't find insurance cheap; disqualified ones, are lucky to get any at all. So five to seven years of pretty slim pickings to get anything with an engine on the road.....
Stuck on a push-bike until over 21, all for the sake of What?
All for the sake of being able to go fast enough to.... well... STILL not really keep up with traffic on 40, 50 & NSL roads......
While worrying about jet sizes, rings, nip ups and top end rebuilds; belts freying and clutch slip, and either spending loads of time and money on expensive preventative maintenance, or wasting more time than you ever save from speed, pushing the damn thing home to fix yet again.
But what the heck.... your only young once, its FUN, isn't it?
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Walloper |
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Walloper
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| tahrey |
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tahrey
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| Posted: 11:46 - 09 Oct 2012 Post subject: Re: Derestricting a 50cc |
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| _Iain_ wrote: |
30mph to 55-60mph? Nearly a 100% increase in top speed with a good chunk more acceleration. Would consider that significant enough to make it worthwhile! |
You show me a genuine, independently confirmed video of a Piaggio Zip nudging NSL with nothing else done to it except derestriction and I will eat the £2 wicker fedora I picked up for summer 2013 giggles at Sports Direct last week. Preferably at a drag strip with professional scruitineering to check there's no additional mods.
OK, it's a 2-smoke, so there's a good chance that if the restriction is in the engine as well as the transmission it can be tuned up to give more power than it's current same-specific-output-as-a-4-stroke level... but it's still a cheap 50 built for economy and most likely with the EU-wide 45km/h (28mph) moped limit very firmly in mind. A 2t fifty that's been built without restriction in the first place and tuned for speed (eg certain Aprilias) could well see high 50s... but that's a very different machine.
Of course once you're 17 and onto a provisional bike license, it becomes legal to do it ... I wonder how fast it'll then go?
On a more serious note, the typical best place to start is by fiddling with the gearing, as it's probably set up to hit the rev limiter at 28-ish mph. If you're lucky, then this will be by restriction of the ratio range (the aforementioned washer). If not, then you'll have to alter the range itself, which means for any worthwhile improvement in top end you'll lengthen the gearing enough that you're effectively riding the clutch in 2nd gear at every launch, so your red light and hill start performance will be knackered. And when even a crap 125 can typically smoke a 50 off the line BY starting in 2nd gear (as they have 2-3x the torque and 2.5-4x the power), that's going to leave you with pretty abysmal acceleration. Plus it'll cost you, as new roller/variator kits aren't free.
After that, be worth looking for airflow restrictions in the intake and exhaust, which suffice to reduce the engine power such that it should have a fairly strong midrange for starting and hill climbing, but gets breathless as you approach the legal limit (especially if the gearing is also restricted). Hunt out and remove those, and if it runs even worse after, learn how to adjust a carburettor and re-jet it to suit. (If it's fuel injected, you're SOL for "free" adjustments).
Anything beyond that starts getting spendy, and you'd be far better off putting your money into a "replacement bike" (or "driving lessons", depending...) fund for your 17th.
Bear in mind that the bike, as listed, produces 3.4kW, or about 4.5HP; capacity wise, the tuning's similar to that of a 125 producing 11.3HP, just at slightly slower revs. Going by the typical square law of power vs velocity that takes hold at lower speeds, it would be good for about 40mph, maybe even as much as 45 if you're lucky. (Said 125 would see about 65-70mph at best; the old Honda 50 that produced similar HP had a listed top end of 40, and the C90 was usually rated for 45 to 50mph)
If it's power restricted and severely gear restricted (or you find it'll rev harder post-derestriction and you don't mind the noise/risk of blowing the engine) it might see 50 without spendy mods (at, say, 6.5hp? Equivalent of about 80cc at the same level of tune?). I'd say that's about realistic, given that a former colleague had a 100cc 2-stroke Yamaha that by all accounts was a leeetle bit quicker than my (4-stroke) CG125... ie it had perhaps 13hp in unrestricted stock form?
Which is quite a nice boost, but will attract a fair bit of attention from plod, who, unless you end up going offroad and appearing on an episode of Brit Cops, you're not going to be able to easily outrun on that thing. And mind that it won't maintain the new top speed anywhere as easily as it does just-under-30 - currently you have about a 2:1 power surplus, after removing the restriction there is no surplus at all when it tops out. Don't let it tempt you into getting too ambitious. And remember the bike still won't be allowed on motorways (which includes A(M) roads and certain, specifically signed bits of non-"M" A-roads...).
NB all the above speeds assume a geared bike with normalish aerodynamics. Quite what the CVT or the scooter shape would do for things, I can't say. |
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| tahrey |
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tahrey
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| Posted: 12:06 - 09 Oct 2012 Post subject: Re: Derestricting a 50cc |
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Eh, I'd have no shame riding that around in stock form. It's the burberry-bronze custom exhaust that ruins it. Like spinners on a Fiesta Popular.
(without: it's a bogstandard bit of prole transport. with: it's just sad)
| Quote: |
If yer 16 this is cool if everyone else is on a bus/in mum's car though. |
Bus wankaaaaas 
Yeah, I remember that time. I'd have killed for even the gimpiest old Honda Vision with a wire granny basket on the front (...that a mate had for the briefest time before stacking it and not being allowed another vehicle). I was even going to buy a Fiat 126 on sale round the corner from me when I hit 17 because it was going dirt cheap, my kiddie savings would cover it, and it was the only thing I was likely to get insurance for... Yeah, even a knackered, 20-odd horsepower Maluch is better than nothing when your only other wheels are pedal-powered and only one or two of your classmates out of an entire year have their own car. I probably would have chavved the hell out of it too. Sort of the late 90s equivalent of the Inbetweeners Seicento.
Luckily my mum realised this would have been an A1 Super Bad Idea and put me on the insurance of her much more mainstream Punto instead... 
| Teflon-Mike wrote: |
Get an old pre '77 FSIE, and as long as it still has the pedals, and they can still drive the back wheel, AND the engine displacement remains under 50cc then they CAN legally go as fast as they are able....
Stock the FSIE was rated to 50mph. Properly ported and tuned, geared to suit, but still under 50cc, they could get to about 60-65, but they needed frequent rebuilds. |
THIS.
Though more recent televised testing of the fizzy seemed to suggest you could get about 45 out of it normally, and 50 with quite a bit of chavtastic tuning mods. Downhill, with a tailwind, curled into the foetal position. (I daresay more professional modding - like the mentioned gearing adjustments, porting etc - would get the power up high enough to crack 60+ ... but that's when the bike starts to swallow money like a baby swallows milk) |
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| Walloper |
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Walloper
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 18:38 - 09 Oct 2012 Post subject: Re: Derestricting a 50cc |
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| tahrey wrote: | Of course once you're 17 and onto a provisional bike license, it becomes legal to do it ... |
Not quite.... its not the licence entitlement that is the main offence, its riding a vehicle other than described on the log book, and the matter of insurance validity.
Moped legally cant do over 30ish... mod it so it does, legally its not a moped.
Technically it may be a motorcycle, and it may be one you can ride on a provisional motorcycle licence, but you could have a full bike licence would not make much odds.
No-ONE can legally ride a 'De-Restricted' MOPED..... on public roads.
If you de-restrict it, becomes a MOTORCYCLE, and to ride it legally on the road... has to be RE-REGISTERED under new vehicle classification as a 50cc motorcycle......
Means Single Vehicle Approval by VOSA against the more stringent regulations for a motorcycle, as well as the requirements of SVA testing, that are often more stringent, and paying a chunk load of money for the privileged to get the classification changed on the V5, and possibly even a new reg-no, depending how they feel about it.
At which point...... no longer a MOPED...... V5 will say motor-bicycle... same as a Fire-Blade or whatever.
Technically, same applies if you took the pedals of a Fizzie.... exemption allows them to go over 30mph comes from the regs in force when they were manufactured/registered, that required pedals. Take pedals off, no longer meets regs by grandad rights... no longer a moped.... needs re-registering as a 50cc motorcycle.
That has cought out a number of classic buffs, who have bought pre 72 'mopeds' imported from abroad that didn't have pedals as standard, hence cant be registered as a moped under grandad rights for when they were made, and have to be registered as a motorcycle, or be restricted to modern moped requirements.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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ov24604
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| tahrey |
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tahrey
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 13 years, 116 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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