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Are copper manifold bolts best?

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bridgedino
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PostPosted: 19:15 - 03 Dec 2012    Post subject: Are copper manifold bolts best? Reply with quote

Are copper manifold bolts best?

My new bike has a standard soft steel exhaust which I would like to swap for a stainless steel system when they become UK available and when funds allow. In the meantime, thinking ahead, is it a good idea to change the current manifold bolts for copper ones?

Maybe try to stop them seizing up / rusting/ corrosion?

In past experience I have found manifold nuts to be a real bugger once the UK weather gets into them
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 03 Dec 2012    Post subject: Re: Are copper manifold bolts best? Reply with quote

Use steel studs and copper/brass nuts. They shouldn't corrode too bad, and if they do the brass/copper strips before the stud snaps.

Edit: typo.


Last edited by DrDonnyBrago on 20:06 - 03 Dec 2012; edited 1 time in total
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Bezzer
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PostPosted: 19:54 - 03 Dec 2012    Post subject: Re: Are copper manifold bolts best? Reply with quote

bridgedino wrote:
Are copper manifold bolts best?



Nope because you won't find any, copper is even softer than aluminium and totally unsuitable as a bolt material.
You may find the odd copper nuts or more commonly brass which can be used on manifold studs Brass isn't really strong enough at the usual M8 size to be any good as a manifold bolt either.
Just use stainless bolts and either copperslip or any of the more modern anti seize stuff.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 21:25 - 03 Dec 2012    Post subject: Re: Are copper manifold bolts best? Reply with quote

Bezzer wrote:
Just use stainless bolts and either copperslip or any of the more modern anti seize stuff.

I would be reluctant to use stainless steel for fastening an exhaust. The material is extremely hard and brittle and will prove to be a massive challenge to remove should it break-off or seize in situ.
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Last edited by Raffles on 21:35 - 03 Dec 2012; edited 1 time in total
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spikenipple
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 03 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could use phosphor bronze nuts. Considerably stronger than brass, self-lubricating as per brass and other bronze alloys and most likely will not seize.
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Bezzer
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 03 Dec 2012    Post subject: Re: Are copper manifold bolts best? Reply with quote

Raffles wrote:

I would be reluctant to use stainless steel for fastening an exhaust. The material is extremely hard and brittle and will prove to be a massive challenge to remove should it break-off or seize in situ.


Why's that then? A2 stainless, the most common for bolts, is no more brittle than ordinary steel ones. I use it a lot, machine it, replacement bolts etc. It doesn't work, age or heat harden either unlike A4 which will rip the teeth off a hacksaw blade before you're made 3 strokes.
Easily drilled with decent HSS bits or Cobalt for A4.
Stainless is used as OE for header bolts anyway, Suzuki extensively use it as probably do others.
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kestrel
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PostPosted: 22:47 - 03 Dec 2012    Post subject: Re: Are copper manifold bolts best? Reply with quote

Bezzer wrote:
Raffles wrote:

I would be reluctant to use stainless steel for fastening an exhaust. The material is extremely hard and brittle and will prove to be a massive challenge to remove should it break-off or seize in situ.


Why's that then? A2 stainless, the most common for bolts, is no more brittle than ordinary steel ones. I use it a lot, machine it, replacement bolts etc. It doesn't work, age or heat harden either unlike A4 which will rip the teeth off a hacksaw blade before you're made 3 strokes.
Easily drilled with decent HSS bits or Cobalt for A4.
Stainless is used as OE for header bolts anyway, Suzuki extensively use it as probably do others.


Bezzer is correct, A2 Stainless Steel is 18/8 (18%Chromium, 8% Nickel), more commonly referred to as 304 grade. A2 is very workable/machinable and it's high resistance to corrosion makes it the perfect material for exhaust fasteners. For these reasons 304 stainless fasteners are used by many manufacturers as standard.

Some info here:-
https://www.volksbolts.com/faq/basics.htm
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orac
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 03 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

stainless steel work hardens, altho unlikely to break the brittleness will develop over many heat cycles and the load of the exhaust expansion will be the work it has to resist.

i have mild steel alen bolts holding my down pipes (allen bolts are standard on the old 400 - even shows them in the manual), eveytime the pipes come off they get a healthy dose of copper slip and the come undone fine the next time the pipes come off.

alot of it come down to how you treat it when you put it together, stainless should be fine for exhaust studs but i would still use something like copper slip on them, aluminium can corrode - which tend to be the problem more than the studs corroding from my expierence
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 08:13 - 04 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brass manifold nuts work fine. They are holding the exhaust on my VFR750 as I type. I use two per stud so the whole length of the stud is covered.
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