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Airborne Concentration Calculation

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Wave2k
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PostPosted: 20:27 - 05 Dec 2012    Post subject: Airborne Concentration Calculation Reply with quote

Struggling with this.

You are trying to work out the microCuries per cubic centimeter (uCi/cc)

uCi/cc = (ncpm) (uCi) (1 liter) (saf)(efficiency) (volume) (2.22x106 cpm) (1000 cc)

uCi/cc = (ncpm) * (correction factor)(efficiency) (volume)

The correction factor is a simplification of the constants from the above first formula:
correction factor = 1 uCi * 1 liter = 4.5x10-10 2.22x10-6 cpm 1000cc



Example

20 Litres per min flowrate
5 minute sample
Background = 5 cpm
sample = 125cpm
counter efficiency = 10%
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thegubner
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PostPosted: 20:46 - 05 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Potato, obviously.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 05 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't say which parts of the equation correspond to which of the values you've posted... Its hard to work it out unless we know what each of the symbols means.
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mistergixer
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PostPosted: 21:56 - 05 Dec 2012    Post subject: Re: Airborne Concentration Calculation Reply with quote

Wave2k wrote:
microCuries


A very small Chiken Tikka Massala?
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Wave2k
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PostPosted: 21:58 - 05 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
You don't say which parts of the equation correspond to which of the values you've posted... Its hard to work it out unless we know what each of the symbols means.


Thats exactly what ive been given, hence why im struggling.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 05 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Villers
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PostPosted: 23:12 - 05 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see why you are struggling, the info given doesnt lend itself towards working out the uC/cc.

My initial reaction was to find the volume of the overall sample, i.e 20 litres x 5 minutes = 100 litres. Then find the number of CC's within 100 litres.

Subtract background counts from activity counts per minute and multiply by efficiency of the detector.

Thats how I would have started with the info in the example but then I realised I didnt know where to start applying the correction factor. Also why is it in micro curis per cc?

Im more used to working in Bq myself. The layout of what you have typed is confusing me I guess. If you are really struggling and its important I know people who are incredibly good at this sort of thing, but the info needs to be correct for it to work!
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Villers
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PostPosted: 23:32 - 05 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

double post Rolling Eyes
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Last edited by Villers on 16:18 - 06 Dec 2012; edited 1 time in total
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Triton Thrasher
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PostPosted: 23:37 - 05 Dec 2012    Post subject: Re: Airborne Concentration Calculation Reply with quote

Wave2k wrote:
Struggling with this.

You are trying to work out the microCuries per cubic centimeter (uCi/cc)

uCi/cc = (ncpm) (uCi) (1 liter) (saf)(efficiency) (volume) (2.22x106 cpm) (1000 cc)

uCi/cc = (ncpm) * (correction factor)(efficiency) (volume)

The correction factor is a simplification of the constants from the above first formula:
correction factor = 1 uCi * 1 liter = 4.5x10-10 2.22x10-6 cpm 1000cc



Example

20 Litres per min flowrate
5 minute sample
Background = 5 cpm
sample = 125cpm
counter efficiency = 10%


You don't need complicated equations for that, unless you like equations and my guess is you don't

20 litre/ min for 5 min is 100l

125cpm - 5cpmBG = 120 cpm

Assuming that's a 4pi efficiency:
120 cpm/0.1 eff = 1200dpm = 20 Bq that's becquerels, the ISO unit of activity. Forget stupid Curies.

Your concentration is 20 Bq/100l = 0.2 Bq/l = 200 Bq/cubic metre

= 0.00002 Bq/ml

ml=cc

Who the hell measures air in cc anyway? The same twits who still use Curies, I guess.

Somebody check my working.
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binge
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PostPosted: 00:33 - 06 Dec 2012    Post subject: Re: Airborne Concentration Calculation Reply with quote

mistergixer wrote:
Wave2k wrote:
microCuries


A very small Chiken Tikka Massala?




You see, I would of thought it would have been one of these:

https://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/15742155/2/stock-photo-15742155-indian-curry-ready-or-microwave-meal.jpg
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 08:14 - 06 Dec 2012    Post subject: Re: Airborne Concentration Calculation Reply with quote

Wave2k wrote:
Struggling with this.

You are trying to work out the microCuries per cubic centimeter (uCi/cc)

uCi/cc = (ncpm) (uCi) (1 liter) (saf)(efficiency) (volume) (2.22x106 cpm) (1000 cc)

uCi/cc = (ncpm) * (correction factor)(efficiency) (volume)

The correction factor is a simplification of the constants from the above first formula:
correction factor = 1 uCi * 1 liter = 4.5x10-10 2.22x10-6 cpm 1000cc



Example

20 Litres per min flowrate
5 minute sample
Background = 5 cpm
sample = 125cpm
counter efficiency = 10%


There seems to be something wrong with the correction factor formula. I assume this is on a test paper? If so, could you photo/pm it to me?

Given this is probably for the US then working with non-SI units will probably be a necessity, so don't bother with the becquerels
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Knightsy
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PostPosted: 08:18 - 06 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24895564.jpg

But please continue...
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carlosthejack...
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PostPosted: 08:37 - 06 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Triton Thrasher
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 06 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid wrote:

Given this is probably for the US then working with non-SI units will probably be a necessity, so don't bother with the becquerels


Yeah, but I don't trust myself with an arbitrary unit like a Ci. I'd convert Bq to Ci at the end. It's so logical to convert CPM to DPM to DPS, because DPS is Bq.

I've probably not helped him at all. I was describing what I would do if it was real.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 06 Dec 2012    Post subject: Re: Airborne Concentration Calculation Reply with quote

Wave2k wrote:
Struggling with this.

You are trying to work out the microCuries per cubic centimeter (uCi/cc)

uCi/cc = (ncpm) (uCi) (1 liter) (saf)(efficiency) (volume) (2.22x106 cpm) (1000 cc)

uCi/cc = (ncpm) * (correction factor)(efficiency) (volume)

The correction factor is a simplification of the constants from the above first formula:
correction factor = 1 uCi * 1 liter = 4.5x10-10 2.22x10-6 cpm 1000cc



Example

20 Litres per min flowrate
5 minute sample
Background = 5 cpm
sample = 125cpm
counter efficiency = 10%


I would suggest that you simply fit a K&N filter (like they do on the bike shows) and fcuk the mixture calculations.
The existing OEM ECM fuel/ignition mapping should be able to accommodate for the adjustment in density values.
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Wave2k
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 06 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its an American test paper, so they use really odd measurements.

I most likely wont be using this kinda of formula and measurements in real life, but they want it in the test. Sad

Its odd because in the whole entire study guide it doesnt mention Curies at all, then uses them in a formula as measurement.

I PM'd Daemonoid the paper, hopefully he can shed some light on what ive missed.

Thanks for the help though guys, some of this is really helpful to me.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 06 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wave2k wrote:
Its an American test paper, so they use really odd measurements.

I most likely wont be using this kinda of formula and measurements in real life, but they want it in the test. Sad

Its odd because in the whole entire study guide it doesnt mention Curies at all, then uses them in a formula as measurement.

I PM'd Daemonoid the paper, hopefully he can shed some light on what ive missed.

Thanks for the help though guys, some of this is really helpful to me.


You're right, it's odd. They seem to have simplified it to the point of making it more complicated.

I've attached the formulae so everyone can see em as your OP had some formatting errors.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/download.php?id=86989

Basically, ignore the first formula and ignore the correction factor derivation.

The second formula in the group is simplified by extracting out all the values that don't change (the correction factor).

So, your task is just to plug values (in your OP) into the formula:

ncpm (not sure what the acronym means, but it's the difference between the cpm measured and the background radiation) - ncpm is just 125 - 5 = 120cpm
efficiency is given as 10% which can be written as 0.1
the volume (of the sample) is calculated using the litres per minute * the number of minutes - so 20*5

Plug all of that into the formula:

Code:

uCi/cc =          (ncpm)                       *(correction factor)
             ------------------------
             (efficiency)(volume)


gives:


Code:

uCi/cc =      (120)          *(correction factor)
             -------------
             (0.1)(100)


Then:

Code:

uCi/cc =      (120)          *(correction factor)
             -------------
                   10



Code:

uCi/cc =      12          *(correction factor)


the correction factor is 4.5*10^-10 or 0.000,000,000,45

so that's 12*0.000,000,000,45

which is:
uCi/cc = 0.000,000,005,4
or
uCi/cc = 5.4*10^-9

then you shuffle the results around in a rather odd operation (but it's how they do it).

5.4*10^9 uCi/cc
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 06 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Wave2k
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 06 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid i owe you a beer Very Happy

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Triton Thrasher
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PostPosted: 17:50 - 06 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

ncpm is net counts per minute: counts per minute, net of background.

As opposed to gross counts per minute, which includes background.

They gave us some shitty formulae like that on industrial health physics. It seems to be meant to stop you thinking about what's happening and just plug numbers into the formula. It suits some people.
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Triton Thrasher
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 06 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those who didn't understand, I just typed up a pretty good explanation, but it vanished. Probably an Ipad thing.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 20:14 - 06 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Triton Thrasher wrote:
For those who didn't understand, I just typed up a pretty good explanation, but it vanished. Probably an Ipad thing.


Awe bless....

It's OK we all have the gist of it now thanks.

Those Ipads are more trouble than bloody motorbikes.
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Triton Thrasher
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PostPosted: 20:26 - 06 Dec 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
Triton Thrasher wrote:
For those who didn't understand, I just typed up a pretty good explanation, but it vanished. Probably an Ipad thing.


Awe bless....

It's OK we all have the gist of it now



No, I think I can give the lady more help.

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