Opinions - Legal - Driving Lessons.

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Hi all. I'd appreciate a little help, or just opinions, on an issue my daughter has with her driving instructor.

She paid £200 up front for a block of driving lessons and this week, as she started her lesson, her instructor told here they'd gone 6.5hrs over the allotted time so far and she owed around £150 (including the lesson she was on).

I should say this was the second block of lessons she'd paid for and, as they'd got to the end of the first set, he'd said that she needed to pay more after the next lesson or so.

It appears that he adds up the extra 10, 20 or 30 minutes each lesson takes over the allotted hour and, in this instance, has neglected to inform her until they were well over.

Now, I've taken issue with this. I'd say that paying £200 up front constitutes a contract to receive a set amount of lessons and nothing else. It's surely his duty to time the lessons so that they start and finish on time, not hers, and his responsibility to make sure he only supplies the hours she's purchased. There surely can be no implied contract to pay for more than the originally negotiated hours.

I've given her £20 to pay for the most recent hour as she completed that knowing that she'd run out of money (personally I'd have just told him to stick it and got straight out of the car but she's far too polite for that. She's one of those teens who still respects adults and wouldn't assume they'd rip her off.)

Anyway, before I ring him tomorrow or, better still, get her to cancel any more lessons and tell him to contact me if he has a problem with that, where do you think she stands legally?

Any opinions gratefully received.
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Greetings from Shitsville!

[Redoko]

Legally? No idea.

Opinion?

You're in the right.

I can't stay longer at work and expect to be paid overtime.
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"Let's face it, this is not the worst thing you've caught me doing."
Sudika Sportsman SK50QT > Gilera DNA50 > Honda CBR125 RW7 > Kawasaki Zephyr750 > Suzuki GSXR600 > Honda Hornet CB600F '51

[Pie-Roe]

He's the professional that probably has to keep records for his own tax/insurance or whatever reasons.
Ask him for a breakdown of hours that your daughter has spent and check it.

I can see where he's coming from but he's gone about it the wrong way. For example, if it were me and he'd come to me and said, look you've gone over by 6.5 hours, fair for us both to call it 3 hours and we'll be a bit more careful with time I'd probably be okay with it.

I'm very doubtful that even if he is legally right it would be worthwhile for him to pursue it. From the way you've worded it I suspect that he's a single man show, which suggests to me even more that he'd be unlikely to want to 'kick off' about it.
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[iooi]

Can't have many pupils if he can afford to go 30 mins over on a lesson.
His fault she has gone over and as such he should not be charging her.

Let me guess he's the cheapest in the area.... or at least on advertised prices

Personally I would find another instructor.
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Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......

[Cunnington]

So an instructor is expecting a learner driver, whose senses will be on overload, to keep an eye on the clock as well.

Is he advertising x number of hours, or x number of lessons per block? I doubt that he has written Ts & Cs that your daughter has signed on to, to be able to check, but I have serious issues with any Contractor working for me spending money that I haven't agreed to in advance. If he wanted to go down his chosen route, he should have been advising her as her lessons progressed that he they were running over to allow her to manage the remaining time.

Personally, I'd tell him to ram it where the sun doesn't shine, and go somewhere else. If he wants to pursue it, he will need to take your daughter to court, where the terms and conditions of any contract would be examined and determined.
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'82 C50, '81 CB100, '84 GS125, '95 NTV650, '00 Bandit 600, '06 SV650, '56 Z1000, '89 NTV600
The Shaggy D.A. wrote: "You are invisible. Those who can see you are trying to kill you."

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[Rogerborg]

What does their contract say? The one with both of their signatures on it?
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Cunnington]

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[duhawkz]

Sounds like he's trying it on, tell him to do one and find another instructor.
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"The guy is a worthless cunt and I honestly believe I would be a slightly happier person if he died." - Chris-Red

[fatpies]

Er I think I know this one. Its something to do with company and contract law.

IIRC You can't do some work for somebody or provide services without a consideration phase.

I.e. you have to agree terms price etc before hand.

Such a law exists because it stops me from mowing your lawn and LEGALLY Charging your £10,000 for it.

Because it is past the consideration stage in an agreement.

Because the original consideration/negotiation phase was for the first block of hours.

Unless explicitly stated and renegotiated you can't just keep the clock rolling, except for certain circumstances.

He will probably lose in court.

If you lose simple!

Pay up then get your daughter to put his car into the nearest concrete wall.
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"It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one"

[Richy CB1000]

I feel a little qualified for this one!

1 I have T&C signed before any lessons, by parents if they're under 18. Nothing there can effect your statutory rights and mine say as much.

You have bought the goods or in this case services for that price, contract exists.

The extra hours given without asking are his own fault, You do not have to pay, nor would I.

Ditch and find someone a tad more professional. They're trying it on.

Payment records are required as only proof for tax etc... I keep such a "Progress" record as it serves twofold to keep things straight money wise and to see how many more lessons maybe required to test or in fact due to moving, illness etc... the record can be passed to a new instructor to pick up where they left off.

2 Time wise I usually arrive there 5 mins before and try to drop off on time. Not always possible but usually within 5-10 mins. That's on me and just good business sense as they don't feel cheated out of expensive time. Word of mouth spreads, I do not need to run special offers etc... nor do advertise on the car.

3 Number of lessons is purely a case by case. I have taught 10 year time served bikers, had three lessons and passed. Right up to a nervous young lass with medical issues taking 45 hours to get there, every bodies different.

4 If not able to get any agreement over this, the dreaded DSA will actually be very interested in this as although it's a "code" the ADI registrar expects all qualified instructors to adhere to it strictly. Complaints usually lead to a suspension of teaching license (you have seen it right?) while things are sorted. That's a real threat to the business as I can tell you is not taken lightly by the professional ADI.

[Ariel Badger]

Ignore all the above advise, kick the f***k out of the c**t and then get a honest instructor this guy is on the make.
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Bikers make great organ donors, get 115 on your licence today.

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Thanks, guys.

All very helpful and I feel very confident about the situation now.

Much all round.
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Greetings from Shitsville!

[uberkron]

My dad runs his own one man driving school as his retirement earner, he spit his tea when he heard the OP!

Thats outrageous, ive been self employed, you factor in the dead time to your hourly rate.
Adding it on after a fortnight? Really?

I dont think im alone in thinking you would buy or pre purchase your instruction so you could control what you spent. I would think somebody selling pre paid anything would have to have crystal clear terms and conditions.

Taking cash in advance is a no no for me unless its a deposit on materials used.
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i ride a zip 50 2smoke. It overtakes a hundred times a day.

[uberkron]

My dad runs his own one man driving school as his retirement earner, he spit his tea when he heard the OP!

Thats outrageous, ive been self employed, you factor in the dead time to your hourly rate.
Adding it on after a fortnight? Really?

I dont think im alone in thinking you would buy or pre purchase your instruction so you could control what you spent. I would think somebody selling pre paid anything would have to have crystal clear terms and conditions.

Taking cash in advance is a no no for me unless its a deposit on materials used.
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i ride a zip 50 2smoke. It overtakes a hundred times a day.

[bikertomm]

Ditch the instructor

I went through one because of the usual BS. I told him I was into motorbikes aswell, he parked the car up and gave me a 20 minute talk on how dangerous they are and I should be prepared to lose a limb.

That was my last lesson...

Cunt.


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07' Honda Hornet now full powaah! My guide on performing an oil change!

[J.M.]

How does everyone on this forum manage to find all these arse holes?

You paid the instructor £200 up front. It's up to him how much he's going to let you have for this. I would keep getting in that car until he told me I had finished the lessons that I'd paid for. It's his job to keep track of that. If he said to me that I owed him £150, my reply would quite simply be "Fvck off" as I walked off.

Times are tough. If he's going to be a cock, find someone else. There are loads of driving instructors around.

Tom, you let someone lecture you for 20 minutes about that? That's where you tell the prick to "Fvck off" and phone for a lift home without giving him a penny. Glad to see that you didn't continue lessons with him.

My instructor was brilliant. Gave me all the lessons at a discounted rate, was friendly and just overall a sound guy. He appreciated the fact that I was a biker and accounted for it in my lessons. Things like clutch control was easy-peasy for me whilst my steering skills weren't great. He picked up on this and taught me accordingly. If anyone's around Leicester/Hinckley way and wants a driving instructor, PM me and I'll send over his number
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[Skudd]

As an ex ADI when I used to teach and the lesson over ran it was out of my pocket, not the pupils, I made sure that each pupil had the time that they paid for learning. I used to see many instructors spending 20 minutes of each lesson booking the next lesson or chatting about shite.
There are many instructors out there who do a good job and just about scrape by, but there does seem a core group who do all the tricks and still make a good living out of it.

If you are starting out learning to drive you need to find out how much each lesson is and for how long, any deals that are on offer. You need to make sure there is a lesson plan and records being kept. each person takes as long as they take, but if you think you are being held back, say so. The istructor should be able to show why he/she is taking their time with you.

I had pupils who took only 5-6 lessons with some of those being waiting for the test, I had one guy who had over 400 hours. I offered him lessons with other instructors, but he declined. He did get to test standard, but wasn't consistant and failed 6 tests, I had one two girls who were fantastic little drivers, but on the day just couldn't get over nerves.

As for the OP. you don't owe any money, what you do need to do is find another instructor.
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Famous last words of Humpty Dumpty. " Stop pushing me "
Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm".

[ocatoro]

who's fault is it that her lessons were somehow "extended"?

it's not as though she's in control of where they are going. she's driving purely on his instruction.

if he has such strict time criterion, why isn't he making sure these "1 hour lessons" are lasting just the 1 hour?

is he a pervy cunt who's extending them on purpose because your daughter is attractive?

you've paid for your lessons, you've fulfilled your end of the bargain, and he's given the right number of lessons. him demanding more money is not part of the contract and therefore you owe nothing.

do you have a written contract? as rogerborg said, that they both signed? without one what has he got to go on contractually? you bought 10 lessons, got 10 lessons. where's he going to contend the extra fees came from unless he's got a written, signed contract stating that extra minutes will be totted up to a final invoice at the end of the block.

just put him straight. youre not paying, and your daughter is going elsewhere.
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CBT - 17/09/12 * Theory - 23/10/12 * Mod1 - 05/03/13 * Mod2 - 25/03/13 * BOSH!
Current - None but shed project H100 (first bike )
Past - ER5, '93 ZZR600, '92 CB400 SF, ZZR600 (again), yellow Monster 620, Blackbird - black Monster 620ie - '96 ZZR600

[P.addy]

Can you now not get insurance on your car and bung her through the test.


Failing that, wtf, where is the bike?

[J.M.]

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