Electric start problem - CB500 twin *SOLVED*

[_mjs_]

Hello all,

This may be a bit of a long post but I'm just trying to cover everything; please bear with!

Recently it's been taking longer and longer to fire my bike up on a morning (having to hold the starter button down for 5-7 seconds). I just put this down to the much colder temperatures and also mainly using my bike for a short commute of about a mile and a half.

A few days ago it was particularly sluggish so after work I decided to take out the battery and stick it on charge overnight to get it back up to full strength.

When I put the battery back on the bike I'd had the wheels etc off to give the bike a good clean and after starting her up okay a total of three times (getting the brakes, drive chain and wheel alignment set up properly and so on) I just got a click from the starter relay - lights and horn all worked fine but pressing the starter button, all you got was a click. So, I bump started it and went for a quick 50 mile jolly to charge the battery that way. It started a couple of times after that then back to the clicking noise from the relay.

So after checking all the fuses I ordered a new battery from Wemoto assuming this one to be shagged. Both old and new batteries are cheapo permanently sealed jobs made by Kyoto... just add the electrolyte and fit according to the instructions - again all I got was the click of destiny from the starter relay.

I tried charging the new battery, fitted it again this morning and still nothing. So bumped off again to get to work again and now I'm trying to figure out my next step.

My first thought is maybe the battery charger; it charges at 4 amps which I believe is not really ideal for a 12v bike battery however shouldn't the new battery have worked out of the box?

Is it the starter relay? According to the Haynes, no. Apparently you shoud worry about that when it doesn't click.

Could it be the starter motor? I'm thinking I should remove it and give it a good clean up along the lines of this thread I found on another site: www.cb500club.net/t390-cleaning-up-the-starter-motor

I'm going to stop by Machine Mart on the way home to buy a multimeter so I can test both batteries to see if they're charging properly. Do you think I should also splash out on another (low amp) charger?

Any other suggestions or am I missing something obvious? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

-Mark
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Previous Bikes: 2006 Honda XR125L > 2003 Yamaha DT125R > 1996 Honda CB500
Current bikes: 1997 Kawasaki ZZR 600 E5 > 2006 Honda Varadero XL125V

[MickC]

Try bridging the starter solinoid with an old screwdriver. If the bike fires staight up the the solinoid is shagged.
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[_mjs_]

[MickC]

Yeh, its usually a cylindrical shape. Follow the battery + to find it, it will be the bit that just 'clicks' when you press the starter.
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Previous: CG125,XS250 (converted to 400),Z250A, GPZ550, Norton Commando, XS500, 78 Laverda Jota, GPZ1100,Harris bonneville, XV750 (mono shock),TR1

[_mjs_]

[MickC]

Yep, that looks like it. Bridge where the cables connect to it. Use an old screwdriver because it will spark like hell when you do it.
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Previous: CG125,XS250 (converted to 400),Z250A, GPZ550, Norton Commando, XS500, 78 Laverda Jota, GPZ1100,Harris bonneville, XV750 (mono shock),TR1

[_mjs_]

Okay I'm guna go down to the carpark now and try it, should just be a matter of whipping the side panel and rubber cover off
____________________
Previous Bikes: 2006 Honda XR125L > 2003 Yamaha DT125R > 1996 Honda CB500
Current bikes: 1997 Kawasaki ZZR 600 E5 > 2006 Honda Varadero XL125V

[_mjs_]

Well I tried that and still getting the click and nothing else. Couldn't see a spark either
____________________
Previous Bikes: 2006 Honda XR125L > 2003 Yamaha DT125R > 1996 Honda CB500
Current bikes: 1997 Kawasaki ZZR 600 E5 > 2006 Honda Varadero XL125V

[MickC]

How did you do it?. The ignition should be turned on, you then bridge the contacts with the screwdriver, don't press the start button.
If it still won't start suspect the starter motor as being the culprit.
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XX XXXx
Previous: CG125,XS250 (converted to 400),Z250A, GPZ550, Norton Commando, XS500, 78 Laverda Jota, GPZ1100,Harris bonneville, XV750 (mono shock),TR1

[_mjs_]

Panel off, rubber cover off, ignition on scruddy on terminals and... nothing happened.

Pressed the starter and just a click as usual.

I'm getting a new charger and multimeter tonight after work, also guna pull the starter motor off and give it a clean and see what happens then.

Thanks for your help!
____________________
Previous Bikes: 2006 Honda XR125L > 2003 Yamaha DT125R > 1996 Honda CB500
Current bikes: 1997 Kawasaki ZZR 600 E5 > 2006 Honda Varadero XL125V

[MickC]

Before spendind some money it may be a good idea to check the Earth connections, sounds as though the battery is being drained or not charging which could be a faulty reg/rec. But you'll need a working multimeter to check it.
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XX XXXx
Previous: CG125,XS250 (converted to 400),Z250A, GPZ550, Norton Commando, XS500, 78 Laverda Jota, GPZ1100,Harris bonneville, XV750 (mono shock),TR1

[unitynotsocri...]

you should check the starter motor brushes,the solenoid could be happy clicking all day ,screwdriver or no screwdriver.
The contact brushes on the starter may have worn down,or the starter motor poles could be coverd in crud and corrosion.
check the starter motor first if you know the battery is ok
____________________
nearly a normal tax paying tosser.......with ferrileness suzi100,cg125,cb125scb100n,cb175,cd100,cj250t,kh250,c15,125 bantam,super 6,rickman gs750,xt500,250rs,dt175,lifan125,dolomite1850,metro,Morris220ld,morrisfg,leyland princess,range rover,corsa,vw camper .now struggling with legs. MORE ORDER = MORE CHAOS

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[_mjs_]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I finish work at 3 so I'll go buy the things I need to sort this, will keep you updated
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Previous Bikes: 2006 Honda XR125L > 2003 Yamaha DT125R > 1996 Honda CB500
Current bikes: 1997 Kawasaki ZZR 600 E5 > 2006 Honda Varadero XL125V

[_mjs_]

Got the stuff, guess it's time to have a deek at the starter motor

https://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u587/mjs1066/20130105_163547_zpsc93e9e65.jpg

-Taken on my iPotato
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Previous Bikes: 2006 Honda XR125L > 2003 Yamaha DT125R > 1996 Honda CB500
Current bikes: 1997 Kawasaki ZZR 600 E5 > 2006 Honda Varadero XL125V

[_mjs_]

Okay so I got the starter off...

https://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u587/mjs1066/20130105_171502_zps0f7fbfb4.jpg

...started taking it to bits...

https://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u587/mjs1066/20130105_181449_zpse2d3165d.jpg

...and found what I believe to be the problem; it looks as though one of the brushes has worn down so far it no longer makes contact with the commutator...

https://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u587/mjs1066/20130105_182343_zpsa9df70b7.jpg

...so I cleaned it up with contact cleaner and put it back together:

https://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u587/mjs1066/20130105_192314_zpsc4cb2061.jpg

I then refitted it to the bike and went for a ride.

Although I can't fully repair it til I get parts I can still get about by bumping it so it could be worse. I also feel much better now I know what's up with it.

Does anyone know a way to get replacement brushes? Can't find anything on ebay
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Previous Bikes: 2006 Honda XR125L > 2003 Yamaha DT125R > 1996 Honda CB500
Current bikes: 1997 Kawasaki ZZR 600 E5 > 2006 Honda Varadero XL125V

[MickC]

https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/parts/by-part-number/partnumber_8302/
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XX XXXx
Previous: CG125,XS250 (converted to 400),Z250A, GPZ550, Norton Commando, XS500, 78 Laverda Jota, GPZ1100,Harris bonneville, XV750 (mono shock),TR1

[_mjs_]

Okay so I've ordered a new brush assembly as well as a new teminal brush, they should be arriving tomorrow.

The picture of the parts are below; can anyone tell me if I'll need to get hold of a soldering gun to connect them together? The bottom pic is of the worn parts I'm replacing.
-Mark

https://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u587/mjs1066/Brushassembly_zps94f0a3e8.jpg

https://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u587/mjs1066/Brushterminal_zps403507cd.jpg

https://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u587/mjs1066/20130105_182457_zps823d1a82.jpg
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Previous Bikes: 2006 Honda XR125L > 2003 Yamaha DT125R > 1996 Honda CB500
Current bikes: 1997 Kawasaki ZZR 600 E5 > 2006 Honda Varadero XL125V

[unitynotsocri...]

them brushes are nt totally knacked ,they look like they've been sticking in the holder,grease on the spring and top bit of brush helps,

if you need to resolder the new brushes then use the old brush wires,soldering the multicore into the new brushes,

carefully cleaning the motor contacts,especially the fine lines between motor pole windings helps good starting,when these channels get filled with vapourised carbon from the starter ,they start electrically leaking across each other
____________________
nearly a normal tax paying tosser.......with ferrileness suzi100,cg125,cb125scb100n,cb175,cd100,cj250t,kh250,c15,125 bantam,super 6,rickman gs750,xt500,250rs,dt175,lifan125,dolomite1850,metro,Morris220ld,morrisfg,leyland princess,range rover,corsa,vw camper .now struggling with legs. MORE ORDER = MORE CHAOS

[_mjs_]

I've got this sorted now, it fired up instantly with the new brushes fitted

I just wanted to complete this thread for future reference by anyone else having the same issue and also to add that a soldering iron is not required, the terminal brush is held in it's guides by a spring!

Piece of piss job to be honest (once identified). Thanks again to all who offered advice
____________________
Previous Bikes: 2006 Honda XR125L > 2003 Yamaha DT125R > 1996 Honda CB500
Current bikes: 1997 Kawasaki ZZR 600 E5 > 2006 Honda Varadero XL125V