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jackod1
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PostPosted: 15:19 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Pillions Reply with quote

Hi there i would imagine that this has been covered before but have never found a straight answer... so what i was wondering if you have to have pillion insurance as compulsory i have a full license and my cover is TPO.

Any help appreciated
Jak
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P.
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

You would specify it when taking out insurance.

Regardless, I carry pillions. No law saying you need insurance for them...if you have a full licence, take someone out.
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jackod1
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PostPosted: 15:30 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

yh thats what i thought there is no actual laws regarding the need for pillion insurance.. but thats the thing i had no idea that i would be carrying pillions when i took the insurance out and they didnt ask me either (did it online) so to put it simply if plod pull me over i should have no problems regarding the pillion

Cheers Jak
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 15:44 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty sure a pillion would be covered under the 3rd party part of your insurance anyway?

That said I still specify.
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arry
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PostPosted: 16:03 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

jackod1 wrote:
yh thats what i thought there is no actual laws regarding the need for pillion insurance.. but thats the thing i had no idea that i would be carrying pillions when i took the insurance out and they didnt ask me either (did it online) so to put it simply if plod pull me over i should have no problems regarding the pillion

Cheers Jak


If you're positive that no such question existed (which I'd find odd, it's been a standard question for some time now) then you've nothing to worry about at all, so long as there is no endorsement to the cover to specifically exclude the carriage of pillion passengers which would be exceptionally rare.

Insurers ask if you'll be carrying pillions as it's a rating factor - you're allowed a discount if you don't carry pillions as it seriously reduces the likelihood of an injury claim being presented to the insurer. The policy itself doesn't change - you're still presented with a certificate of motor insurance that covers all third party aspects and it's not considered as riding otherwise in accordance with licence. What would happen in the event of an accident whilst you were carrying a pillion is the insurer would be able to void the policy on the basis of material non-disclosure (for withholding information that a prudent underwriter would consider which would alter either terms or premium level - this is easy for the insurer to prove and would be more than enough for voidance proceedings). Having voided the policy, the insurer would still be liable for TP injury under the terms of the RTA and would pay out for such injury, but they would have rights of recourse against you under S155. It's also fairly unlikely they'd pay for any damage to your bike done in the process Laughing
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Matt B
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PostPosted: 16:04 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

With insurance companies I have used it is included unless you ask to remove it.
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cimbian
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PostPosted: 16:07 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with MCE and excluded pillion cover to keep the cost down. I am now thinking of taking a pillion in July so asked about adding it and was told it would probably be £30 to £40. Am waiting for a quote.
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arry
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

cimbian wrote:
I'm with MCE and excluded pillion cover to keep the cost down. I am now thinking of taking a pillion in July so asked about adding it and was told it would probably be £30 to £40. Am waiting for a quote.


The difference on mine was ~17 quid from memory; ie not an amount that's really worth fecking about for.
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cimbian
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PostPosted: 16:12 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even at £30 it is not so bad.

My lad is in the RAF and we plan on doing the Ride of Respect together, so money well spent on a day out with him. Smile
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U_W v2.0
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does exist, I asked this not long ago and got the same reply, "sod pillion insurance, its not a legal requirement"

My policy has "do you intend to carry pillions? No"

But intentions are one thing, real life is another.
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arry
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

U_W v2.0 wrote:

My policy has "do you intend to carry pillions? No"


I'd hazard a guess your policy says no such thing
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 16:41 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt B wrote:
With insurance companies I have used it is included unless you ask to remove it.


Good for you.... doesnt help the OP though.
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U_W v2.0 This post is not being displayed because it has a low rating (Boring). Unhide this post / all posts.

arry
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PostPosted: 16:49 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

U_W v2.0 wrote:
I'd hazard a guess you're talking out of your arse again mate.

Do you line it with lipstick and rent it out on the corner too?

Rolling Eyes


Touchy.

Your policy won't have any questions in it as it's a statement of contract. What you're saying just isn't true - there's an important distinction between what's requested at proposal stage and what's entered into policy, schedule, certificate and / or any endorsements.

You may have been asked the question when proposing for insurance, but (again Rolling Eyes ) I'd hazard a guess that it's not stated anywhere within your policy documents - perhaps it's on your statement of needs, but that's not your policy.

The reason I've corrected what you've said is because it's entirely relevant to the original question. Not for any sort of points scoring - it was a statement designed to make you think about the documents you have in your possession and how well you know them; especially since I've said:
'you're still presented with a certificate of motor insurance that covers all third party aspects'

Anyway, since some people just feel the need to fly off the handle and straight on the attack, I'll just keep that factual, useful information up my arse next time...

Cheers
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U_W v2.0
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PostPosted: 16:52 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's where it belongs.

I received new policy documents saturday and ready through it.

All of the information provided when the policy was taken it is covered within the policy documents. Perhaps it's just mine, perhaps its others.

Either way, its there within the policy documentation.
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U_W v2.0
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PostPosted: 16:53 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Anyway, since some people just feel the need to fly off the handle and straight on the attack, I'll just keep that assumptive and inaacurate up my arse next time...

Cheers


Fixed that for you by the way. Dont assume "facts" based purely on your own documents. These things can be worded, phrased and assembled vastly differently between the companies.
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arry
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

U_W v2.0 wrote:

Fixed that for you by the way. Dont assume "facts" based purely on your own documents. These things can be worded, phrased and assembled vastly differently between the companies.


Seriously Rolling Eyes

I'm well aware they vary; I'm not basing it on mine; I've seen more policy documents than you'll see in your lifetime, and written more than you'll ever read. I don't need to argue with you about what the difference is between a policy, a schedule, and the statement of fact that you're staring at.
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Alpha-9
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PostPosted: 17:06 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excluding them just means they wont be covered in an accident that wasnt your fault, say if you go into a car and your pillion breaks her leg, she wouldn't be able to claim comp from the third party

It's not a legal requirement, but make your pillion aware that they are not covered if you fuck up Thumbs Up
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U_W v2.0
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PostPosted: 17:07 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

believe what you want there. arrogance is unsightly on you.

Simple fact, that "statement of fact" is part of my policy. So dont bother trying to argue unless you've seen my policy, which i can assure you, you haven't. No will you.
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arry
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpha-9 wrote:
but make your pillion aware that they are not covered if you fuck up Thumbs Up


They are covered dude. The only way in which they won't be is if a judge rules that their injury was the product of their own lawbreaking - ie they knew that the vehicle wasn't insured for the carriage of pillions. In this instance, the judge MAY rule that the insurer not be liable for damages - it does rely on case law, however.
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arry
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

U_W v2.0 wrote:
believe what you want there. arrogance is unsightly on you.

Simple fact, that "statement of fact" is part of my policy. So dont bother trying to argue unless you've seen my policy, which i can assure you, you haven't. No will you.


Let me put on my care face Laughing
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Alpha-9
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PostPosted: 17:14 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Alpha-9 wrote:
but make your pillion aware that they are not covered if you fuck up Thumbs Up


They are covered dude. The only way in which they won't be is if a judge rules that their injury was the product of their own lawbreaking - ie they knew that the vehicle wasn't insured for the carriage of pillions. In this instance, the judge MAY rule that the insurer not be liable for damages - it does rely on case law, however.


Then what's the point in pillion cover at all?
I doubt they would be...but then again a solicitor would probably happily do it regardless of the insurance Thinking
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arry
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PostPosted: 17:19 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpha-9 wrote:

Then what's the point in pillion cover at all?


There is no 'pillion cover' in the form you're thinking of it in, really. A motor policy responds to legal liability you incur whilst using your motor vehicle. Part of the use of your motor vehicle will sometimes be the carriage of passengers. The liability policy doesn't change, nor does the RTA in any way differentiate, should you state to your insurer that you will not carry pillion passengers. Issuing a policy that states you're not covered to carry passengers wouldn't actually satisfy the RTA anyway. The reason the insurer asks is that it's a rating factor - no more, no less. It's the same as them asking whether you have an alarm in respect of theft cover.
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cimbian
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PostPosted: 17:22 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Alpha-9 wrote:

Then what's the point in pillion cover at all?


There is no 'pillion cover' in the form you're thinking of it in, really. A motor policy responds to legal liability you incur whilst using your motor vehicle. Part of the use of your motor vehicle will sometimes be the carriage of passengers. The liability policy doesn't change, nor does the RTA in any way differentiate, should you state to your insurer that you will not carry pillion passengers. Issuing a policy that states you're not covered to carry passengers wouldn't actually satisfy the RTA anyway. The reason the insurer asks is that it's a rating factor - no more, no less. It's the same as them asking whether you have an alarm in respect of theft cover.


Good information, arry. Thumbs Up
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 18:00 - 13 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Under legislation, if an insurance company give you motor-insurance, the minimum legal requirement is third-party cover.

Third Party Cover covers claims by ANY 'injured' third party.

Any passenger IS a third party, so automatically you HAVE pillion cover... at least at third party level if they are injured in an accident you caused.

If they are injured in an accident caused by some-one else.... then they are ought to be covered by TP-Insurance of who-ever caused the accident.

However, as far as specifying 'pillion cover' when taking out an insurance policy, its a bit like declared or undeclared mods.

They cant nullify the Third-Party cover, but under contract law, you are in breach of contract, they can peruse you for any 'losses' they have incurred from you, as basically accepting 'No-Pillion' cover is an agreement between you and the insurer you WONT take a passenger, hence limiting the liability they may have to pay out against you.
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