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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 14:19 - 14 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:

I dont think you realise the efficiency of asics here.
To run a 10 million core CPU long enough to mine a block, you'd be paying many times the cost of the reward in electricity costs.


That's completely beside the point. 10 million CPU cores is colossal. Doesn't matter if a single CPU can't do what an asics thing does. When you have 10 million all lined up and put to work, they would quite clearly have serious clout.

Quote:

If you could mine with cpu cores, people would be, you cant.


What? People did mine with CPUs, before the difficulty level was pushed up too far.


Pjay wrote:


The more BTC goes up, the more hashrate is added to the network.



wtf are you on about Laughing You clearly have absolutely no idea at all what 'hashrate' means. Google it. It's the bitcoin fanboy buzzword for processing power. It's the amount of times per second a calculation is made.

The rest of your comments don't need responding to because you don't even understand this first basic point.
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asta1
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PostPosted: 15:08 - 14 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Pjay wrote:

I dont think you realise the efficiency of asics here.
To run a 10 million core CPU long enough to mine a block, you'd be paying many times the cost of the reward in electricity costs.


That's completely beside the point. 10 million CPU cores is colossal. Doesn't matter if a single CPU can't do what an asics thing does. When you have 10 million all lined up and put to work, they would quite clearly have serious clout.


With all due respect Percy, I think you're wrong here.

ASICs are basically highly slimmed down chips operating with specialised (minimised) OS, true. However, I'm not sure you quite understand just how much better an ASIC chip is at this application.

Take a standard CPU - the Intel Core i7 990x for example. It's an excellent CPU, powerful, multicore, gaming capable. It can also mine bitcoin. Apparently it can chuck out about 33.3Mhash/s on a power draw of 0.18Mhash/J. All well and good.

Now lets apply this to your supercomputer. For the sake of fag packet maths, lets say each chip is 4x better than the 990x. Each one throws out 133.2MHash/s and achieves 0.72MHash/J.

For your 10million chips, that's 133,200,000MHash/s for an power input of 1,850,000,000W

So, how many Antminer 9 ASICs are required to match that hash rate and whats the power draw?

Well a single unit throws out 14,000,000Mhash/s for a energy efficiency of 10,812Mhash/J. Divide the 133,200,000MHash by that and we reach a total requirement of 9.5 Antminer 9s. Total energy draw is 12,319W.

Basically the supercomputer throws out about the same mining power as a ASIC rig you could store in a basement. Plus its power needs are orders of magnitude higher.

CPU mining died for a reason.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 15:12 - 14 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:

wtf are you on about Laughing You clearly have absolutely no idea at all what 'hashrate' means. Google it. It's the bitcoin fanboy buzzword for processing power. It's the amount of times per second a calculation is made.

The rest of your comments don't need responding to because you don't even understand this first basic point.


Not sure if you are trolling this thread as it is getting quite boring you sounding so adamant about things you seem to have no idea about.

Hashrate is linked to price. There are literally websites that tell you which coin is currently most profitable so you can jump to that.

https://whattomine.com/

When one crypto spikes in price, the miners move over and the difficulty will readjust over time.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 14 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stand humbly corrected about the supercomputer thing.

Also I missed this:

Pjay wrote:
the hashrate and the difficulty are all separate things that are not hard linked to each other, but they affect each other.


which is indeed correct. Took about 5 pages of prodding to draw you to this simple conclusion though.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:43 - 14 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

asta1 wrote:
With all due respect Percy

Ask him how helicopters work if you want to find out how much is due. Whistle
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 17:28 - 14 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
asta1 wrote:
With all due respect Percy

Ask him how helicopters work if you want to find out how much is due. Whistle


https://www.leonardodavincisinventions.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/leonardos-helicopter-bearings.png
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 17:53 - 14 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:

wtf are you on about Laughing You clearly have absolutely no idea at all what 'hashrate' means. Google it. It's the bitcoin fanboy buzzword for processing power. It's the amount of times per second a calculation is made.

The rest of your comments don't need responding to because you don't even understand this first basic point.


Not sure if you are trolling this thread as it is getting quite boring you sounding so adamant about things you seem to have no idea about.

Hashrate is linked to price. There are literally websites that tell you which coin is currently most profitable so you can jump to that.

https://whattomine.com/

When one crypto spikes in price, the miners move over and the difficulty will readjust over time.


just ignore him, he's either trolling or a moron.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 01:49 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:

just ignore him, he's either trolling or a moron.


No. You claimed several times that there's a direct link between bitcoin price and hashrate. There's nothing moronic about telling you this is wrong. The two are not intrinsically linked, they're simply correlated. I could make the world's largest bitcoin mining farm tomorrow, switch it on and the hashrate would shoot up, along with the difficulty rating of the mining process. The amount of bitcoins entering circulation would stay the same. Nothing here has changed the price of bitcoin.

You later claimed that you already knew this. Perhaps you did know all along but you've done a damn terrible job of making it clear. You've been changing your words accordingly in order to always sound right.

You also claim processing power is linked to price because people switch off their mining rigs if the electricity bills will outweigh the potential profits. This is clearly mere speculation too. You could mine for coins at a loss today, then hold onto them in the hope there'll be another surge in prices a year later. So once again there is nothing that says mining/hashrate is based on pricing, there's only speculation based on the trends of the masses in the gold rush.

This isn't trolling, it's supposed to be a reasoned discussion but all we're getting from you is, "I've been doing this for ages and I made money, therefore I'm definitely correct," which you surely realise means nothing.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 06:48 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to show I'm not here to stubbornly troll for no reason, here's something which quite easily eradicates the supercomputer claim I made earlier: https://bitcoincharts.com/bitcoin/

Bottom of the page - Network Hashrate 80704290.84 PFLOPS

For comparison, the Taihu Light operates at 105 PFLOPS Laughing

Well that was an easy debunk Very Happy
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asta1
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PostPosted: 07:08 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:

Well that was an easy debunk Very Happy


Certainly easier than mine. I had to maffs and everything.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 10:15 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
More stuff


I know how it works, you just try to pick holes in my statements where there aren't any.

Me stating that hashrate is added to the network when the price increases is a fact. What I didn't go into was the reason for this, before you jumped on that statement as a law.

So:
Hashrate is added by people hoping to make a profit, when the price goes up.

Doe that make it less of a trollable comment for you?

I really have no idea why you are trying to be all knowledgeable about something you only a a month ago confessed to knowing fuck all about. Not only that, you're not even adding anything to the thread, just some arguing with semantics.

My advice is to just not bother, unless it's to inform Borg, as he seems to be learning the most from you, going by his karma you're farming here.

This is the last time I am going to reply to you, so there is little need to reply with a question.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:49 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Me stating that hashrate is added to the network when the price increases is a fact.

You keep using that word.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 11:04 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Pjay wrote:
Me stating that hashrate is added to the network when the price increases is a fact.

You keep using that word.

I use lots of words, which one are you having issues with?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 11:10 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fact: you keep using that word.

Fact: Lord Percy is just winding everyone up.

Fact: no one could really be that stupid.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Fact: you keep using that word.

Fact: Lord Percy is just winding everyone up.

Fact: no one could really be that stupid.


Well yes, because I'm trying to state facts, to help him understand, but he doesn't seem to grasp the information given to him.

I hope this helps clarify the mindset of a miner.

A miner will add hashrate to the network of a coin when the price of that coin becomes instantly more profitable. They wont be speculating on the price of a coin, that's not how it works.

They will use a site that shows which coin is the most profitable at any given time, to ensure they are running at a profit.

This site is a comparison for SHA256 (bitcoin type) miners for which coin is the most profitable at any given time: https://www.coinwarz.com/miningprofitability/sha-256

Now this isn't set in stone and there may well be a nice amount of miners that think 'Oh I'm going to mine bitcoin with my loss making s7 miner in the hope bitcoin doubles in price over the next year', but these people are the exception to the rule.

So my statement that hashrate is added to the network when the price of BTC goes up is a fact and one that is obvious given the chart he linked proving this.

Bitcoin miners will leave the network when the price dips (as they have done recently) and move to another, more profitable coin.

I shouldn't have to explain all this, as The Artist has mentioned this previously to Percy in less detail, but I am just hoping he will realise that I do know what I am talking about, It's just little point going into detail about things that should just be accepted when you bullet point them, considering you're talking to someone that confessed they know nothing about the subject. For that person to then pick holes using semantics and try to tell me I know nothing, is getting pretty stale.

I'm no longer interested in his opinions on the matter, so hopefully this thread can carry on as intended, amongst people interested in Crypto and not for those with trolling in mind.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
I shouldn't have to explain all this, as The Artist has mentioned this previously to Percy in less detail, but I am just hoping he will realise that I do know what I am talking about, It's just little point going into detail about things that should just be accepted when you bullet point them, considering you're talking to someone that confessed they know nothing about the subject. For that person to then pick holes using semantics and try to tell me I know nothing, is getting pretty stale.

I'm no longer interested in his opinions on the matter, so hopefully this thread can carry on as intended, amongst people interested in Crypto and not for those with trolling in mind.

It's just not worth trying to explain any of it to Lord Percy.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:


Me stating that hashrate is added to the network when the price increases is a fact.


Yes, it is a fact that you keep stating this.

But the thing you are stating is only a correlation Wink

Quote:
My advice is to just not bother, unless it's to inform Borg, as he seems to be learning the most from you, going by his karma you're farming here
.

Karma farming Very Happy
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Ste
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PostPosted: 13:05 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not farming, it's whoring.

Roger the whore Borg. Shocked
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 13:10 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:

It's just not worth trying to explain any of it to Lord Percy.


I'll have you know I've learned an immense amount of bitcoin info via this thread.

It's still a pyramid scheme though Wink
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:34 - 15 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not fiting, I'm just cheering on both drunks to keep their fite going.
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asta1
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PostPosted: 09:01 - 18 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, decentralisation of Crypto is going well:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2158825-bitcoins-utopia-has-failed-as-big-players-hold-all-the-power/?cmpid=SOC%7cNSNS%7c2017-Echobox&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#link_time=1516207889

Doubt it makes much difference in real terms, and certainly won't impact the price, but interesting none the less.

Bets on how long before the first denial of transaction 'scandal' by Ghash.io et al?
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 09:40 - 18 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

asta1 wrote:
So, decentralisation of Crypto is going well:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2158825-bitcoins-utopia-has-failed-as-big-players-hold-all-the-power/?cmpid=SOC%7cNSNS%7c2017-Echobox&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#link_time=1516207889

Doubt it makes much difference in real terms, and certainly won't impact the price, but interesting none the less.

Bets on how long before the first denial of transaction 'scandal' by Ghash.io et al?


More old news....

Bitcoin was the first crypto and it has a lot of flaws. There is no Utopia or perfect crypto coin out there and it seems all these negative articles assume that crypto supporters think they are solving all the worlds problems.

Plenty of other coins in development with different methods of ensuring decentralisation.

Bitcoin is more centralised than would be ideal but it is still working and there have been no successful attacks.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:55 - 18 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:
[Anarcho-syndicalism is the perfect system, it's just that nobody has done it right yet. Next time will be the charm.]

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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 03:18 - 19 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's utterly obvious that decentralisation won't work. Taxation won't be able to happen, nationwide economic control and protection won't be able to happen, money lending won't be able to happen, speculative investment won't be able to happen. Economies would run stale.

The Artist wrote:
ensuring decentralisation


I'm yet to understand why this is even desirable.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 04:56 - 19 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
I'm yet to understand.

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