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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:54 - 25 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
So you spent $1000

No, he spend Bitcoins on it.

It's one of the very few valid examples that doesn't involve the hilarious "Yeahbut I can 'buy' stuff with BTC after selling it and buying a real currency in the background."

Of course, they don't take BTC any more, so it's of quirky historical interest only, like paying 10,000 BTC for 2 pizzas.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 08:59 - 25 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Of course, they don't take BTC anymore.


I just checked, they certainly do.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:46 - 25 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Of course, they don't take BTC anymore.

I just checked, they certainly do.

They certainly don't say that they do.

https://i.imgur.com/FGoeEOi.png

Is there a secret link? That's how you know your currency is properly legit, yo.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 11:16 - 25 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an option at checkout.

https://oi65.tinypic.com/2z3uo2v.jpg
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owl
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PostPosted: 13:02 - 25 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.wheretospendbitcoins.co.uk/location/london

even some of the local street food vendors are taking bc as payment
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 25 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
It's an option at checkout.

Clinging on by its fingernails.

Since you've already agreed to pay a fixed amount of a real fiat currency, we're back to the yeahbut argument about whether selling BTC to buy USD to buy $STUFF means that you've really bought $STUFF using BTC or not.

That aside, what's significant is that they've abandoned listing prices in BTC. My point is that until you can use BTC directly to buy $STUFF in prices listed in BTC, it's not viable as a trading currency except as a last resort for people living in socialist paradises who have no access to anything better.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 25 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
My point is that until you can use BTC directly to buy $STUFF in prices listed in BTC, it's not viable as a trading currency except as a last resort for people living in socialist paradises who have no access to anything better.


Like here?

https://www.bitdials.eu/collections/buy-original-rolex-watches-with-bitcoin-btc
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:51 - 25 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
My point is that until you can use BTC directly to buy $STUFF in prices listed in BTC, it's not viable as a trading currency except as a last resort for people living in socialist paradises who have no access to anything better.


Like here?

https://www.bitdials.eu/collections/buy-original-rolex-watches-with-bitcoin-btc

Is that your example?

Is that what you're sticking with?

No takesy-backsies.

Ready for it?

Here's how that site actually lists its prices.

https://i.imgur.com/fptNDRt.png
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 25 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Is that your example?

Is that what you're sticking with?

No takesy-backsies.

Ready for it?

It shows in BTC for me.
https://oi64.tinypic.com/24q45zd.jpg
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Jewlio Rides Again LLB
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PostPosted: 14:21 - 25 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also shows initially in BTC for me.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 25 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hit F5 and watch carefully.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 18:40 - 25 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Hit F5 and watch carefully.


What relevance has that to do with them listing the price in BTC?
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 19:16 - 25 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy shit you guys. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:05 - 25 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Hit F5 and watch carefully.

What relevance has that to do with them listing the price in BTC?

Because they're not valuing the goods in BTC.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 25 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Because they're not valuing the goods in BTC.


That is clutching at straws.
I can see clearly that they are valuing the goods in BTC.
Do you think that a company that sells internationally in £ and $, only values the items in one and not the other?

They will have a base rate, usually their local currency and then use xe.com to convert the price live. I imagine they are doing the same for the watches.

Anyhow, you're being ridiculous, don't bother answering, I doubt I will take your answer seriously.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 02:29 - 26 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
The rate at which you are wrong is astounding.


Sad

Out of interest, of what relevance was this part?

Pjay wrote:
They invented the Prusa style 3D printer and made it open source, allowing anyone to use their designs and make their own or improve on it. This is why Ebay is awash with Prusa i3 clones at £130.
Forward thinkers you see. They can't keep up with demand, it still takes them months to fulfil an order due to people wanting to be part of something special. Innovation is a wonderful thing.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 07:39 - 26 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
I can see clearly that they are valuing the goods in BTC.

We can all see clearly that they are valuing the goods in Euros, and then doing a conversion to BTC, or whatever other actual currencies they accept for whatever service it is that they provide.


Pjay wrote:
Do you think that a company that sells internationally in £ and $, only values the items in one and not the other?

Pricing is not the same as valuing. If they have stock (I doubt it, I expect they're just 3rd parties scalping a cut) then it has to be valued in one currency. The same currency that they'll use for all their accounts (if they have accounts).

They're not running their business on BTC, and they're not thinking in terms of BTC, which means they don't consider BTC to be a usable currency. We can see that clearly.

Pjay wrote:
Anyhow, you're being ridiculous, don't bother answering, I doubt I will take your answer seriously.

I agree that ridiculous arguments are being made to try and prove a point that no rational person would take seriously. Clearly.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 09:28 - 26 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
They're not running their business on BTC, and they're not thinking in terms of BTC, which means they don't consider BTC to be a usable currency. We can see that clearly.


No, we can see that the website builder has linked the BTC price to a converter from Euros.

Making an assumption about their core values as a business based on this is laughable, even more so when you are making an assumption when the company is called Bitdials.

For someone that speculates with such a cavalier attitude, it's a wonder you didn't get into Bitcoin long ago.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 26 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
we can see that the website builder has linked the BTC price to a converter from Euros.

We appear to be agreeing that they value the goods in Euros.

As it turns out, the, uh "company" calling itself Bitdials doesn't appear to exist.

From its domain registration, it's a sole trader, one Anatoly Cypin. His VAT number is not valid for cross border transactions in the UK.

And why is this German based Bitcoin aficionado pricing his goods in GBP? Thinking

Wow such legit very trustchainworthy.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 26 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
We appear to be agreeing that they value the goods in Euros.

No, I am agreeing that the website does.
The company that sells the watches may well have no idea the site does that.
I suspect you know this, but are carrying on with the charade regardless.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 26 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
The company that sells the watches may well have no idea the site does that.

Are you suggesting that the value placed on them is in BTC, but for some reason that site first converts that real BTC value into a Euro amount (a curiously round-number Euro amount), and then converts that back into BTC?

As we can all clearly see, the fixed value of those items is in Euros, a real, stable currency. They'll take BTC for them, but only at an instant Euro-BTC exchange rate, liable to second-by-second fluctuation.

Don't take my word for it, that's what they say:

Please don't get confused if BTC prices in shop are sometimes not absolutely actual.

Most current exchange rates are provided at the time the invoice is generated after you fill in shipping information and proceed with payment. Mostly the rate will be better than displayed in our shop.


I'm not denying that you can buy things with BTC. The point is that even your own example of a trader who accepts BTC doesn't think in BTC, they don't value their assets in BTC, and they convert those BTC to Euros at the point of sale.

If that's the best example you can come up with, it just illustrates how far BTC is from being anything like a real currency.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 16:02 - 26 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
We appear to be agreeing that they value the goods in Euros.

No, I am agreeing that the website does.
The company that sells the watches may well have no idea the site does that.
I suspect you know this, but are carrying on with the charade regardless.

Bitpay provide them with the valuation in bitcoins or whatever crypto currencies they're accepting.

Bitpay will immediately pay them in fiat. I don't know which exchange Bitpay base their rates on.

In conclusion, the retailer is several steps removed from providing the value in bitcoin.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 16:15 - 26 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
More guff.


Ok how about Bitmain?
They wont even accept FIAT currencies.
Do they fit your description?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 16:27 - 26 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
They wont even accept FIAT currencies.

They accept US dollars by bank transfer. In fact, that's the first option on their list of payment methods.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 26 Apr 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Ok how about Bitmain?

Batman's dyslexic nemesis?

https://i.imgur.com/5299dUH.png

I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make any more.

Is there anywhere that values their goods or services in stable BTC amounts?
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