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Most dangerous town/city for motorcyclists?

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yaigi
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PostPosted: 12:27 - 21 Mar 2013    Post subject: Most dangerous town/city for motorcyclists? Reply with quote
Riding home from work the other night I saw the aftermath of someone having pulled out on a motorcyclist. It was at the same junction I've seen many-a-car mashed up, much to my confusion cos I really can't see anything confusing or difficult about it, but that's besides the point.

It got me thinking, I wonder if there is a most dangerous town/city in the UK to be a motorcyclist and what the contributing factors towards the reasons it being more dangerous might be?

So take St Helens for example, where I work. It's a grim industrial town with many lorries travelling it's roads - LOTS of diesel spills. On my journeys to and from work I very rarely see another motorcyclist - I do wonder if the lack of motorcyclists means people are less likely to be keeping an eye out for them due to lack of awareness that they even exist?! Many of the streets are full terraced houses with no driveways - meaning hoards of cars parked on the street just itching to pull out on unsuspecting bikes. It can get massively congested when just one road has a blockage (accident/roadworks etc.) and so people do some crazy things. The motorcycle and car testing centre is also based there, which means many learners about, which again can make some idiots get all frustrated and do silly things.

I am of course sure that St Helens will pale in comparison to some towns/cities (London maybe?!) in terms of the amount of potential hazards to motorcyclists - I'm interested to hear the stories of the great BCF. I found this story about the county of Gloucestershire which had some interesting statistics for that area but I can't seem to find anything which talks about cities all over the UK:

https://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/798-bikers-killed-injured-Gloucestershire-roads/story-15942686-detail/story.html#axzz2OAxytMZ1

TL;DR - Who lives/works in the most dangerous town/city to motorcycle in!? Let the battle commence!
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covent.gardens
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PostPosted: 12:35 - 21 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anywhere with a good concentration of clubs at around 3am is going to be up there on the list. Drunk boy racers showing off to their passengers is why a piece of street furniture gets damaged overnight about once a week around here. They make it outside Southend on the way home and take themselves out on the first roundabout, first big corner, etc, because they're too fucked to read the road properly. Then the police lower the speed limits for everyone, as if that'll help. Rolling Eyes

They sure as hell don't look out for motorcyclists at that time of night. Might as well be invisible.

Last edited by covent.gardens on 12:37 - 21 Mar 2013; edited 1 time in total
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 12:36 - 21 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
At one stage Telford had the worst standard of driving in the UK. To be fair they do call roundabouts 'islands'...
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yaigi
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 21 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
covent.gardens wrote:
Anywhere with a good concentration of clubs at around 3am is going to be up there on the list. Drunk boy racers showing off to their passengers is why a piece of street furniture gets damaged overnight about once a week around here. They make it outside Southend on the way home and take themselves out on the first roundabout, first big corner, etc, because they're too fucked to read the road properly. Then the police lower the speed limits for everyone, as if that'll help. Rolling Eyes

They sure as hell don't look out for motorcyclists at that time of night. Might as well be invisible.


This might be a completely skewed perspective based on my own experiences only but boy racers seem to be a much more frequent occurrence down south than they do up North. Oh and in Wales, there's loads in Wales. I remember staying with my sister in Colchester once and all i could hear all night was the sound of their dump valves as they tried to impress the hoards of free hookers in the street. Haven't seen this display in Liverpool on Manchester, but drunk people do step out into the road like lemmings Shocked
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 21 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
East London
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yaigi
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 21 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
East London


At least give you answer some back-up Chris, c'mon, don't be lazy Razz I've been to London less times than I can count on one hand, paint me a picture Very Happy
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HJM
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 21 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
North London.

Why? My mum lives there and drives her range every day, and she is probably the worst driver on this earth.

Good luck Londoners, we will need it Thumbs Up
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 21 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
East London
The two roads in east london that make me slightly nervous on two wheels are Bethnal Green Road (double parking, market stalls and peds/cycles coming from all directions without looking) and Whitechapel Road eastbound by the hospital (As above but without the double parking).
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 14:30 - 21 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
yaigi wrote:
chris-red wrote:
East London


At least give you answer some back-up Chris, c'mon, don't be lazy Razz I've been to London less times than I can count on one hand, paint me a picture Very Happy


Trying to be as PC as possible...

It's full of Asians most of whom I can only assume haven't passed a driving test, or if they did it wasn't up to the standard of the British one. Lots of cars don't have wing mirrors that doesn't matter because the ones that do don;t check them anyway. They all all seem to have been taught an indicator gives you right of way and that the best way out of a junction is just to pull out slowly regardless of what is coming and hope everyone stops.

I was pulled by a copper for something and he said words to the effect that most of the cars have something wrong with them tax/insurance/mot etc. and often the car is insured by one person and then given out to lots of others who all pretend to be the first person if caught.
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yaigi
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PostPosted: 15:04 - 21 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:


Trying to be as PC as possible...

It's full of Asians most of whom I can only assume haven't passed a driving test, or if they did it wasn't up to the standard of the British one. Lots of cars don't have wing mirrors that doesn't matter because the ones that do don;t check them anyway. They all all seem to have been taught an indicator gives you right of way and that the best way out of a junction is just to pull out slowly regardless of what is coming and hope everyone stops.

I was pulled by a copper for something and he said words to the effect that most of the cars have something wrong with them tax/insurance/mot etc. and often the car is insured by one person and then given out to lots of others who all pretend to be the first person if caught.


I think the origin of the persons driving license is a legitimate point to raise Thumbs Up

I have to say, there aren't any roads in St Helens/Liverpool/West Lancs that make me particularly nervous - until I see a massive stream of Diesel on one of them that is, like I did right throughout Skem the other day, around every roundabout, whatever did it must have been spewing rainbows Shocked So glad I was in the car... but then I remembered I was on the way to get my bike with fresh tires put on Laughing

Never noticed people without wing mirrors where I ride but plenty who don't use em Rolling Eyes
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Easter Bunny
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 21 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
In North London, The A5 Cricklewood Broadway Juction with Manstone Rd seen so many bikes get taken out there, going north the traffic slows and the cars just use the other side of the road to jump the queue and turn right into Manstone normally without looking behind them Rolling Eyes
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yaigi
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 22 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
At one stage Telford had the worst standard of driving in the UK. To be fair they do call roundabouts 'islands'...


'At one stage'? I wonder which city does now then?
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Amber Phoenix
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 22 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why bother guessing, when the data is out there:-

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2009/crash/8414354.stm

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8401344.stm

Or if you've got a bit of time on your hands, you can get hold of the raw data here and mine itself...

https://data.gov.uk/dataset/gb-road-casualty-statistics-2008
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yaigi
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PostPosted: 14:47 - 22 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Arfa__ wrote:
Why bother guessing, when the data is out there:-

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2009/crash/8414354.stm

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8401344.stm

Or if you've got a bit of time on your hands, you can get hold of the raw data here and mine itself...

https://data.gov.uk/dataset/gb-road-casualty-statistics-2008


Thanks for digging those out! Very interesting. Shame the interactive map only goes up to 2008 but been having a little play with some different postcodes. 44 deaths in merseyside compared to 74 deaths in lancashire (but that does seem to cover a larger area. % of motorbike accidents seems to stay about the same.

It's quite depressing looking at the details of each incident - seeing the ages of all the fatalities Crying or Very sad

EDIT: Looking at the stats for London there is a much smaller gap between the percentage of accidents involving bikes and the percentage of accidents involving cars than there is elsewhere I've looked so far. So seems my original thoughts may have been right - London is most dangerous for bikes... but I wonder where outside of London?
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Scootaloo
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 22 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I live in the Greenwich/Woolwich area of East London.

I can confirm the broken mirror + switch on indicator and instantly turn theory to be true.. It's happened about once a day so far to me.. I commute about 15 minute journeys in the grid-lock of woolwich road...

If I'm taking it really easy just cruising about 20-30, slow accelerating/braking, planning filtering etc, I'll normally have about 0-2 close calls (normally involves me stopping in time to avoid) every 25 minutes of ride time...

However, if I'm rushing... sorry, I mean; "making progress" as many bikers dub it.. I'll normally encounter about 1-4 close calls (almost nasty collisions) due to a combination of me and the drivers idiocy, but about 70% my fault normally... dodgy I know, but fun as anything... and I'm still here so I must be doing something right...

That is all, Scootaloo
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WULFSTAN
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PostPosted: 16:46 - 22 Mar 2013    Post subject: Re: Most dangerous town/city for motorcyclists? Reply with quote
yaigi wrote:
Riding home from work the other night I saw the aftermath of someone having pulled out on a motorcyclist. It was at the same junction I've seen many-a-car mashed up, much to my confusion cos I really can't see anything confusing or difficult about it, but that's besides the point.

It got me thinking, I wonder if there is a most dangerous town/city in the UK to be a motorcyclist and what the contributing factors towards the reasons it being more dangerous might be?

So take St Helens for example, where I work. It's a grim industrial town with many lorries travelling it's roads - LOTS of diesel spills. On my journeys to and from work I very rarely see another motorcyclist - I do wonder if the lack of motorcyclists means people are less likely to be keeping an eye out for them due to lack of awareness that they even exist?! Many of the streets are full terraced houses with no driveways - meaning hoards of cars parked on the street just itching to pull out on unsuspecting bikes. It can get massively congested when just one road has a blockage (accident/roadworks etc.) and so people do some crazy things. The motorcycle and car testing centre is also based there, which means many learners about, which again can make some idiots get all frustrated and do silly things.

I am of course sure that St Helens will pale in comparison to some towns/cities (London maybe?!) in terms of the amount of potential hazards to motorcyclists - I'm interested to hear the stories of the great BCF. I found this story about the county of Gloucestershire which had some interesting statistics for that area but I can't seem to find anything which talks about cities all over the UK:

https://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/798-bikers-killed-injured-Gloucestershire-roads/story-15942686-detail/story.html#axzz2OAxytMZ1

TL;DR - Who lives/works in the most dangerous town/city to motorcycle in!? Let the battle commence!
I live in st helens which road was the motorcyclist knocked off ?
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Tungtvann
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 22 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
[
Trying to be as PC as possible...

It's full of Asians most of whom I can only assume haven't passed a driving test, or if they did it wasn't up to the standard of the British one. Lots of cars don't have wing mirrors that doesn't matter because the ones that do don;t check them anyway. They all all seem to have been taught an indicator gives you right of way and that the best way out of a junction is just to pull out slowly regardless of what is coming and hope everyone stops.

I was pulled by a copper for something and he said words to the effect that most of the cars have something wrong with them tax/insurance/mot etc. and often the car is insured by one person and then given out to lots of others who all pretend to be the first person if caught.


Don't forget the 'hazard light force field' bunch. If you put your hazard lights on, you are immune to everything and can do any manoeveur you like.

Example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaneNpllbrM

Fat piece of shit!
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 17:39 - 22 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
yaigi wrote:


I remember staying with my sister in Colchester once and all i could hear all night was the sound of their dump valves as they tried to impress the hoards of free hookers in the street. Haven't seen this display in Liverpool on Manchester, but drunk people do step out into the road like lemmings Shocked


I need to go down there to see this I think. I've always found the whole Essex boy racer thing quite amusing, and I have a thing about retro fast Fords etc, so I'd still like to see a few lairy RS turbos, and Cosworths slithering, tail sliding and torque steering all over these Essex streets.

I drive around here and stick out like a knob, as im the only twat quite often with dump valve hisses occurring on the drive to Tesco and back lol!
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yaigi
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 22 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
WULFSTAN wrote:
I live in st helens which road was the motorcyclist knocked off ?


It was in Dentons Green - the bike had been traveling from the East lancs down Rainford Road heading onto Greenfield road when a car had come from the Kiln Lane direction, probably wanting to go across the junction at the 'top' of the one way system onto Hard Lane. The car had pushed the bike into the light-up bollard thing that always seems to get hit Confused

Had a bit of time to kill so drew a diagram of the direction each vehicle had been going. Car was meant to give way to bike, clearly didn't, shunned him into little island thingy:

https://s22.postimg.org/53sibutsx/Bike_Accident.jpg

I've seen two separate cars on separate occasions crashed into that little bollard island bit, I've passed with no idea how they got there as there seemed to be no other vehicle involved, but they both looked pretty crumpled Shocked
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WULFSTAN
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PostPosted: 22:21 - 22 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
yaigi wrote:
WULFSTAN wrote:
I live in st helens which road was the motorcyclist knocked off ?


It was in Dentons Green - the bike had been traveling from the East lancs down Rainford Road heading onto Greenfield road when a car had come from the Kiln Lane direction, probably wanting to go across the junction at the 'top' of the one way system onto Hard Lane. The car had pushed the bike into the light-up bollard thing that always seems to get hit Confused

Had a bit of time to kill so drew a diagram of the direction each vehicle had been going. Car was meant to give way to bike, clearly didn't, shunned him into little island thingy:

https://s22.postimg.org/53sibutsx/Bike_Accident.jpg

I've seen two separate cars on separate occasions crashed into that little bollard island bit, I've passed with no idea how they got there as there seemed to be no other vehicle involved, but they both looked pretty crumpled Shocked
Crashes there all the time nearly been wiped out there myself. People just fail to see the give way sign.
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 00:32 - 23 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
yaigi wrote:
EDIT: Looking at the stats for London there is a much smaller gap between the percentage of accidents involving bikes and the percentage of accidents involving cars than there is elsewhere I've looked so far. So seems my original thoughts may have been right - London is most dangerous for bikes...


You may be falling for the base rate fallacy. There are a lot of bikes in London; without knowing the difference in the ratio of bikes to cars in London vs elsewhere, you don't have enough information to determine if it is in fact relatively more dangerous for bikes.

I think bikes are ridden more aggressively in London traffic, but also that drivers are more aware of them.
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joncwl
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PostPosted: 00:40 - 23 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
At one stage Telford had the worst standard of driving in the UK. To be fair they do call roundabouts 'islands'...


in my opinion still freaking is!!!

i live in shrewsbury and taxi drivers here annoy me to high heaven, but telford!! the whole package comes with them taxi drivers, bus drivers, normal drivers, just crazy
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Ed Case
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PostPosted: 15:17 - 23 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
joncwl wrote:
MarJay wrote:
At one stage Telford had the worst standard of driving in the UK. To be fair they do call roundabouts 'islands'...


in my opinion still freaking is!!!

i live in shrewsbury and taxi drivers here annoy me to high heaven, but telford!! the whole package comes with them taxi drivers, bus drivers, normal drivers, just crazy


I lived in what is now Telford some years ago, wasn't too bad, now I avoid the place whenever possible. Completely bolloxes up Shropshire IMHO.
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joncwl
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PostPosted: 20:38 - 23 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ed Case wrote:

I lived in what is now Telford some years ago, wasn't too bad, now I avoid the place whenever possible. Completely bolloxes up Shropshire IMHO.


couldnt agree with you more!!!!

since i started biking ive almost been in so many accidents, but whenever i leave shropshire for somewhere else its always pleasant, except newtown the only out of shropshire place i avoid like the plague.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 23:27 - 23 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Milton Keynes.

It shouldn't be, it should be one of the safest places to ride or drive except for one amazingly stupid idea from the road planners.

Where estates come out onto NSL dual carriageways the have put a break in the central reservation and allowed vehicles to turn right. Fucking idiots turning right from standstill across 70mph cars and bikes is not condusive to keeping your pants clean. The amount of accidents is horrendous.

The should have made them left turn only with a slip road. It's not like you have to go very far to the next roundabout.

That and the Arab/Ethiopian taxi drivers that obviously past their tests with a bullock and cart. At least one has, the others all use his driving license. Rolling Eyes
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