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FAO: Insured by Adrian Flux,underwritten by Equity Red Star

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awicks
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Joined: 14 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: 11:22 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: FAO: Insured by Adrian Flux,underwritten by Equity Red Star Reply with quote
Bear with me on this one...

Long version:
I purchased my bike on 20th Sept 2012 and took out an insurance policy with Bikesure / Adrian Flux that was underwritten by Equity Red Star.

I sold my motorbike on Saturday and on Monday called Adrian Flux / Bikesure to cancel my insurance policy with them. My insurance premium was £421.78 (plus £30 charge from Adrian Flux), the policy was between 6 and 8 months old and I was informed that I was due a refund of c. £2.

However when I started questioning the charges being applied to the refund, things started to get interesting...

Looking at my policy documentation it says that the underwriter will retain 87.5% of the premium (returning 12.5% to Adrian Flux), then Adrian Flux will retain a commission charge of upto 30% and then a £25 cancellation fee on top. When I calculated this I worked out this would result in a refund of at least £11.90 (depending on the commission percentage).

Adrian Flux initially disagreed with the 87.5% - saying that the underwriter would in fact retain 90%. They also said that their commission on this cancellation would be 25%. I had to send them the policy documentation they provided to me when I took out the policy to get them to agree to the 87.5%.

Today I was informed that the commission to be taken on the cancellation is, in fact, 17.5% (not the 25% mentioned previously) and that there is a charge not mentioned in the policy booklet of £20, which Equity Red Star retain on top of the 87.5%. There is a line in the Terms of Business from Adrian Flux which says:

Quote:
Please note that your insurer may make a charge of £20 for any amendment made to your policy in addition to any increase in premium and our mid term adjustment fee


However, this charge is not mentioned anywhere in the policy booklet from Equity Red Star. It does detail the terms of the policy and any charges that will apply to amendments to, or cancellation of, the policy - but not the £20 charge mentioned by Adrian Flux.

In the booklet it states:

Quote:
This document is a legally binding contract of insurance between you (the insured) and us (Equity Red Star)


Due to it not being included in the policy booklet I have managed to get this £20 charge removed, thus increasing the amount to be refunded to me.

If you have / have had a policy taken out through Adrian Flux or Bikesure and underwritten by Equity Red Star, and have been charged for any amendments / cancellations then I would urge to you look out your documents and take this up with Adrian Flux directly, as it is highly likely they have applied an additional charge for the change that is not included in your insurance contract. The amount may only be small (<£20 taking into account their commission), but I feel it is worth doing. It has increased my refund from c. £2 to £19.02!

Don't let them fob you off with the fact that Adrian Flux's terms of business mention that you might be charged £20 - for this to be valid charge it would have to be included in the policy document from Equity Red Star, which it is not!

tl;dr;
If you have / have had a policy taken out through Adrian Flux or Bikesure and underwritten by Equity Red Star, and have been charged for any amendments / cancellations then it is highly likely you have had a charge applied that is / was not in your insurance contract. Read the above for more details.

Andy
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
£17 is better in your pocket than those thieves'. Thumbs Up
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Timmeh
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Joined: 01 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: 15:12 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hold on.

your policy cos you 450 pounds but you've only used 66% of it, if the world was fair you'd get 150 back.

And you think you've won by getting twenty quid off them?

In the end you've just robbed yourself, you may as well have just kept it till the policy expired.

Note to all; sell your bike after you've used all the insurance. It won't affect the selling price.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 15:40 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Re: FAO: Insured by Adrian Flux,underwritten by Equity Red S Reply with quote
awicks wrote:
Bear with me on this one...

Long version:
I purchased my bike on 20th Sept 2012 and took out an insurance policy with Bikesure / Adrian Flux that was underwritten by Equity Red Star.

I sold my motorbike on Saturday and on Monday called Adrian Flux / Bikesure to cancel my insurance policy with them. My insurance premium was £421.78 (plus £30 charge from Adrian Flux), the policy was between 6 and 8 months old and I was informed that I was due a refund of c. £2.

However when I started questioning the charges being applied to the refund, things started to get interesting...

Looking at my policy documentation it says that the underwriter will retain 87.5% of the premium (returning 12.5% to Adrian Flux), then Adrian Flux will retain a commission charge of upto 30% and then a £25 cancellation fee on top. When I calculated this I worked out this would result in a refund of at least £11.90 (depending on the commission percentage).

Adrian Flux initially disagreed with the 87.5% - saying that the underwriter would in fact retain 90%. They also said that their commission on this cancellation would be 25%. I had to send them the policy documentation they provided to me when I took out the policy to get them to agree to the 87.5%.

Today I was informed that the commission to be taken on the cancellation is, in fact, 17.5% (not the 25% mentioned previously) and that there is a charge not mentioned in the policy booklet of £20, which Equity Red Star retain on top of the 87.5%. There is a line in the Terms of Business from Adrian Flux which says:

Quote:
Please note that your insurer may make a charge of £20 for any amendment made to your policy in addition to any increase in premium and our mid term adjustment fee


However, this charge is not mentioned anywhere in the policy booklet from Equity Red Star. It does detail the terms of the policy and any charges that will apply to amendments to, or cancellation of, the policy - but not the £20 charge mentioned by Adrian Flux.

In the booklet it states:

Quote:
This document is a legally binding contract of insurance between you (the insured) and us (Equity Red Star)


Due to it not being included in the policy booklet I have managed to get this £20 charge removed, thus increasing the amount to be refunded to me.

If you have / have had a policy taken out through Adrian Flux or Bikesure and underwritten by Equity Red Star, and have been charged for any amendments / cancellations then I would urge to you look out your documents and take this up with Adrian Flux directly, as it is highly likely they have applied an additional charge for the change that is not included in your insurance contract. The amount may only be small (<£20 taking into account their commission), but I feel it is worth doing. It has increased my refund from c. £2 to £19.02!

Don't let them fob you off with the fact that Adrian Flux's terms of business mention that you might be charged £20 - for this to be valid charge it would have to be included in the policy document from Equity Red Star, which it is not!

tl;dr;
If you have / have had a policy taken out through Adrian Flux or Bikesure and underwritten by Equity Red Star, and have been charged for any amendments / cancellations then it is highly likely you have had a charge applied that is / was not in your insurance contract. Read the above for more details.

Andy



It's a another one to watch for.
Amazing that even with t' Internet and all it's 'free' info people get caught out with small print.

RTSP (Read the Small Print)

There is usually a link to Terms and conditions. If not certain write and ask. They will write back with their answer.

Before forking out we have to do this shit. No good doing it in a rush. Embarassed
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arry
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
2 separate entities:

1) bikesure - brokers, place you with an insurer of their recommendation
2) ERS - insurer, take a premium for the risk that you present and part of that premium is rebated to Bikesure in the form of commission for placing the policy.

Bikesure Terms Of Trading will set out what they will look to retain upon cancellation. This will include any policy admin fees (as they've been incurred) plus likely any commission payable to them - this is because the vast majority of the work done to earn commission is placing new business.

ERS cancellation rate will be set out within the policy booklet sent to you at the time you incepted the policy. It will very likely be short period rated, ie front loaded towards the first months of the policy. ICOB 6 used to cover the cancellation and would state 'the cancellation cannot be in any way penaltive' and there was some argument around that, but it was later clarified as 'if you've signed up to the cancellation conditions by having a whole 14 days to read your documents and you didn't bother then your own tough turds'
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was wondering recently, why does most insurance run for 12 months?

Why not 6? Or 24? Or 60?
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Timmeh
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PostPosted: 16:14 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
I was wondering recently, why does most insurance run for 12 months?

Why not 6? Or 24? Or 60?


most likely the balance between money made from new policies to money lost on old ones.

Or maybe it's always been that way and has therefore set a precedent. Don't think there is a statute regulation AFAIK
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Arfa__
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PostPosted: 16:16 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've been with Adrian Flux for a few years on my car. It's a bit modded, and they beat everyone else and gave a nice discount to one of the owners clubs.

However, a couple of years ago I took out my policy in January, but asked them about my wife who was learning to drive and would hopefully need adding to policy in March when her test was due. Fine they said, give us a bell, it'll be fine, estimated around £200-300 extra.

Come March, wife passes car test (yippee!) go to add her to policy, they turn around and say they can't offer any insurance to anyone with less than 1 years experience! Barstewards... So I had to cancel after just 2.5 months. Got about £350 back on a £700 policy. Partly due to fees, partly due to non refundable extras (breakdown cover etc). Totally shit though.

I'm back with them, now my wife has been driving for more than a year. Problem is, they're the cheapest. Everyone else wants to charge insane premiums because I put some alloys, leathers seats, reversing sensors and a spoiler on the car! A.F. didn't care about mods (so long as I informed them), zero extra charge for everything cosmetic.

Learn one thing: You never win with insurance, you just keep paying your money, then pay some more.
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Walloper
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Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 16:18 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
I was wondering recently, why does most insurance run for 12 months?

Why not 6? Or 24? Or 60?


Because any decent racket needs to have at least some rules. Smile

For motor policy it probably is to coincide with MoT and tax but since that's awe owur the place it's not that. It would make sens to have a one-stop-shop for the whole shitty thing but then we want to individualize everything get tatoos and piercings (to look different from others) and stuff.... Smile
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 16:20 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Adrian Flux / ERS fucked me over for ~£1500.

Don't be tempted by the cheap up front premium. If anything goes wrong or you want to cancel etc, they say no.

Would rather pay more and have decent service.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 16:27 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Artist wrote:
Adrian Flux / ERS fucked me over for ~£1500.

Don't be tempted by the cheap up front premium. If anything goes wrong or you want to cancel etc, they say no.

Would rather pay more and have decent service.


I'll bite...

How did they skunk you for £1500? The fcuktards.
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arry
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PostPosted: 16:29 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Artist wrote:
Would rather pay more and have decent service.


And unfortunately there's the rarity. Who do you insure with; the one with the UK call centres, the pro-rata cancellation rates, the competitive admin fees, the decent claims service, the policy bells / whistles - or the one that's cheapest? The answer 95% of the time is the latter.

Recently helped a friend of mine through an FOS complaint on a cancellation charge - taken a policy out with Haven via a totally unknown broker on a ridiculously out of date website, ffs Rolling Eyes
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 16:41 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
The Artist wrote:
Would rather pay more and have decent service.


And unfortunately there's the rarity. Who do you insure with; the one with the UK call centres, the pro-rata cancellation rates, the competitive admin fees, the decent claims service, the policy bells / whistles - or the one that's cheapest? The answer 95% of the time is the latter.

Recently helped a friend of mine through an FOS complaint on a cancellation charge - taken a policy out with Haven via a totally unknown broker on a ridiculously out of date website, ffs Rolling Eyes


I think ins is a much less muddy field then it was before online quotes etc. Now you can shop around from the comfort of your smart phone and see what fifty brokers are offering. Years ago you had to do it all one by one. Rolling Eyes

But you still need to do the homework. I don't treat giving some cnut £300 as pocket money.
Get the cheapest quote but also look at what you actually get for it and more importantly, how easy it will be to actually USE it if needed.
Most folk, (I think) just need cover to be legal. Even though fully comp is still popular. So any cheap deal will do. As we're not going to really have a ding are we? Rolling Eyes
I insure my car with Swift. Day to day there's no hassle. Until someone hit my car and I called them to report it. In-case the third party didn't cough up.
The woteva the fcuk it was I spoke to on the phone couldn't have sounded any less interested in my 'plight' if she'd been in a coma.

Luckily I wasn't making a claim but come the day I have to ask for help or have hassle I will kick my own arse.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 16:41 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
The Artist wrote:
Adrian Flux / ERS fucked me over for ~£1500.

Don't be tempted by the cheap up front premium. If anything goes wrong or you want to cancel etc, they say no.

Would rather pay more and have decent service.


I'll bite...

How did they skunk you for £1500? The fcuktards.


Tried to cancel a policy 3 months in and they said no chance, I have to pay the full amount right away. Had debt collectors calling every day etc. Not fun.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 16:48 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Artist wrote:
Tried to cancel a policy 3 months in and they said no chance, I have to pay the full amount right away. Had debt collectors calling every day etc. Not fun.


Oh Crying or Very sad Cuntards...

I was with AF for years but then their premiums went stupit so I don't use them. I found speaking to them was normally pleasant enough.

I would need restraining if they took me for that much..

Have you appealed?
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 17:03 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
The Artist wrote:
Tried to cancel a policy 3 months in and they said no chance, I have to pay the full amount right away. Had debt collectors calling every day etc. Not fun.


Oh Crying or Very sad Cuntards...

I was with AF for years but then their premiums went stupit so I don't use them. I found speaking to them was normally pleasant enough.

I would need restraining if they took me for that much..

Have you appealed?


No point. Small print is key but like many others, I was sucked in because their premium was £800 less than the next offer.
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TomGT
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Joined: 22 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: 17:12 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
why are you cancelling your policy? The 125 left me in January but I'm still insured until June, doesn't cause anyone any problems and saves me £40, worst comes to the worst the new owner has my mobile number Thumbs Up
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illuminateTHE...
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why can't people just let the insurance run over then collect the no claims bonus when it finishes, instead of accepting the alternative cancellation fees and a mediocre refund.

Its not like its illegally for a vehicle to have multiple insurance policies.
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P.
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
illuminateTHEmind wrote:
Why can't people just let the insurance run over then collect the no claims bonus when it finishes, instead of accepting the alternative cancellation fees and a mediocre refund.

Its not like its illegally for a vehicle to have multiple insurance policies.


Fuck, I'm in agreement Laughing
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
TomGT wrote:
why are you cancelling your policy? The 125 left me in January but I'm still insured until June, doesn't cause anyone any problems and saves me £40, worst comes to the worst the new owner has my mobile number Thumbs Up


I was 3 months into a monthly payment policy and lost my license. Not sure what happened but they immediately handed it over to debt collectors and I had to arrange the payment with them.
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Slacker24seve...
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PostPosted: 17:53 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
illuminateTHEmind wrote:
Why can't people just let the insurance run over then collect the no claims bonus when it finishes, instead of accepting the alternative cancellation fees and a mediocre refund.

Its not like its illegally for a vehicle to have multiple insurance policies.


I did this when I was insured with Swinton, underwritten by ERS. I tried to change my insurance from my Hornet over to my Daytona and my premium more than doubled. I asked them hypothetically about whether my premium would go up if I fitted (it was on there already) a non-performance enhancing exhaust and they said I was uninsurable.

So I jut forgot about it. No kittens were killed and my new insurers for the Daytona weren't told about the exhaust either.

Keep posting more stuff like that please ITM Thumbs Up
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arry
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PostPosted: 18:39 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
illuminateTHEmind wrote:
Why can't people just let the insurance run over then collect the no claims bonus when it finishes, instead of accepting the alternative cancellation fees and a mediocre refund.

Its not like its illegally for a vehicle to have multiple insurance policies.


It is non disclosure under the change in risk condition, though. You don't own the vehicle, therefore the policy must cease to be in force (you have no insurable interest), this is material fact you're deliberately concealing in order to continue the policy for financial benefit - ie, in loose terms, fraud
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kernow24
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Joined: 15 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
TomGT wrote:
why are you cancelling your policy? The 125 left me in January but I'm still insured until June, doesn't cause anyone any problems and saves me £40, worst comes to the worst the new owner has my mobile number Thumbs Up


Good luck with that, if the person you sold it to crashes, the 3rd party will be perfectly within their rights to claim off your insurance.

You lose your no claims, your insurance will be cancelled and your insurer will likely pursue you to reimburse their costs.

Ever seen the bit in quotes that says have you had a policy cancelled? that will haunt you for all eternity.

Worth the risk to save yourself 40 quid?
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scream aim fire
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
i'll never use them again after my policy cost me £70 for 2 weeks worth of cover after they cancelled for a fairly invalid reason (license at my mums address)
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arry
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 27 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
scream aim fire wrote:
after they cancelled for a fairly invalid reason (license at my mums address)


Legal requirement to have your licence in the address at which you reside:
https://www.gov.uk/legal-obligations-drivers-riders
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