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total BS, taxpayers to foot a bill before we know the cost ?

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oldpink
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PostPosted: 00:38 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: total BS, taxpayers to foot a bill before we know the cost ? Reply with quote

should we not have any say in this
seems to me like the Tory's have lost the plot

Current estimates for the State Funeral ceremonial funeral for Maggie are around £10m
2000+ rich people and a load of political dignitary's are to have a knee's up at our expense
when our government current dictators tell us the country's broke
and anyone in benefits with a spare bedroom must pay for it even when they can not move to more suitable accommodation as they sold most of the available property's off cheaply to fund tax breaks for her rich buddies

they are closing, hospital wards, schools, library's tax offices and lots of other cuts
she may have been the most outstanding PM in the UK but was it for the right reasons
from what I see anyone north of Watford are happy she is dead
only London and the south seem to be mourning her passing

Cameron saying we have to do this to show the world we care regardless of the cost
he wants all the bells and whistles to accompany this sham funeral
but I suspect its an effort to drum up support for his failing government and policy's of austerity
Austerity my ass when they blow £10m for prime time sky news coverage wall to wall (and every other channel)

I can honestly see this backfiring and all hell breaking loose in London next Wed
as there will be a massive show of strength from her bully boys and any protest however peaceful will be stifled
pity I will be away on business in Amsterdam otherwise I'd be there to protest (peacefully of course)
with a simple message on a placard saying Scotland has never forgiven you and never will
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Sload
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PostPosted: 02:31 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

If all the fanfare is to be believed, he seems to be doing a good job of burying his party Thinking
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colin1
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PostPosted: 04:54 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

If one of my relatives die, the funeral is paid for out of the money they had.

If Cameron wants a big political funeral, the Tory party can cough up. I think he's nuts if he thinks £10million of tax payers money should be spent.

The only people who would agree with that would be Tories, so they can pay for it, if her family don't want to.

It's possible that she did good for the country, I just know she was a bit ruthless, including dressing up soldiers as police officers during the miners strike to beat up miners.

Diana may have got a fancy funeral, but she was not as controversial.
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 07:21 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be done more cheaply I'm sure.

Wonder if Arthur Scargill still keeps a pick and shovel for old times sake in the cupboard at his luxury union paid flat.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 07:52 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

yen_powell wrote:
Wonder if Arthur Scargill still keeps a pick and shovel for old times sake in the cupboard at his luxury union paid flat.

Apart from spending a very brief period ''working'' at Woolley Colliery as a youth, he's never done any underground work. His entire working lifetime was spent as a professional agitator and he probably wouldn't recognise a pick and shovel if he came across such items.
He's more likely to keep a hammer and sickle in his flat.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:
If Cameron wants a big political funeral, the Tory party can cough up. I think he's nuts if he thinks £10million of tax payers money should be spent.


I'm not sure where the £10mil figure has come from. I've seen it in newspapers but there has been no explanation of it, it seems like a figure plucked out of the air.

The queen mother's similar funeral cost £4.3mil of which £2.3mil was 'opportunity costs' (costs which would've been incurred anyway eg. police salaries for the day). Thatcher's family is also contributing and unspecified amount to the cost. Even without the state ceremonial aspects there would have to be a heavy police presence to prevent serious disruption so much of the remaining £2mil would have to be spent anyway.

Don't believe all you read in the papers...
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid wrote:
of which £2.3mil was 'opportunity costs' (costs which would've been incurred anyway eg. police salaries for the day).

daemonoid wrote:
there would have to be a heavy police presence to prevent serious disruption so much of the remaining £2mil would have to be spent anyway.

I'm not necessarily disputing the essence of your post, but haven't you counted 2mil in police salaries twice there?
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 09:42 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can believe the figure to be as high as stated. I saw on the news yesterday some plods taking apart the pelican crossing boxes to peek inside to "check for explosives." Another plod lifting up sewage drains along the route and hoking through the scum there.

Now someone is being paid to check all of these things that are normally ignored unless they break.

We're paying for that.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 10:17 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raffles wrote:
he probably wouldn't recognise a pick and shovel if he came across such items.
He's more likely to keep a hammer and sickle in his flat.


Ooh!! Satire. Waspish, mordant satire.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

angryjonny wrote:
daemonoid wrote:
of which £2.3mil was 'opportunity costs' (costs which would've been incurred anyway eg. police salaries for the day).

daemonoid wrote:
there would have to be a heavy police presence to prevent serious disruption so much of the remaining £2mil would have to be spent anyway.

I'm not necessarily disputing the essence of your post, but haven't you counted 2mil in police salaries twice there?


No, I was thinking of operational costs... granted not the whole of that 2mil but it is a bit of a hit.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:10 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid wrote:
I'm not sure where the £10mil figure has come from.

They don't have to have a huge security presence. That's necessitated by making it an Event and essentially throwing down the gauntlet to every crusty, sponger and nutter with an agenda.

Police (and Plastic and G4S) overtime ramps up fast. They'll have everyone with a uniform or a costume out there, exercising every power that they have or believe that they have.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 11:16 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
They don't have to have a huge security presence. That's necessitated by making it an Event and essentially throwing down the gauntlet to every crusty, sponger and nutter with an agenda.

Police (and Plastic and G4S) overtime ramps up fast. They'll have everyone with a uniform or a costume out there, exercising every power that they have or believe that they have.


Even a private funeral would likely be gate crashed by those with an agenda. There's no getting around it, the funeral would cost a lot to police, the state ceremony part of it likely costs very little - hiring st Pauls, a trip down the road with a few cars and dinner for 2000 people is not exactly an outlandish expense.
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 13:02 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

10 million quid, you say?

Let's triple it and say it's 30 million.

I'll gladly chip in my 50p for the funeral of a past leader of this country.

Regardless of whether it's Thatcher, Blair, Brown, Cameron or anyone else.

And yes, I think that it's more important than whether or not someone gets Tesco Finest potatoes or standard/basic this week.

Problem?

Quote:
from what I see anyone north of Watford are happy she is dead
only London and the south seem to be mourning her passing


It's a funeral, not a popularity contest.
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 13:11 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derivative wrote:
Regardless of whether it's Thatcher, Blair, Brown, Cameron or anyone else.

Come off it, no-one's going to spare a penny for Brown's funeral! But why should any of them get a big do? I second the opinion that the Tory party should make up the rest of the costs that the family can't cover, and if the police believe there's a security risk they shouldn't grant permission. I'm sure someone's got a little out-of-the-way country mansion they could host it at.
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just don't think that the comparison (pay for NHS vs pay for funeral) is wholly fair.

The sum is absolutely minimal (if £10m is accurate, that's about 17p per UK citizen).

And it's not like the money just disappears. UK business will get most of it.

She is a past leader of this country, the head job, top of the pack.

You can get help with funeral costs (on the taxpayer's dime!): https://www.gov.uk/funeral-payments/overview

Looks like it's up to about a grand or two.

Your Gran gets that treatment because she's just your Gran. No-one, other than you and your family, will care.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 14:19 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derivative wrote:
The sum is absolutely minimal (if £10m is accurate, that's about 17p per UK citizen).

It's not the actual number that's the problem but the message it's sending out.

In the same month that a family of 4 with the gall to want a bedroom each for their two children have started to be taxed for such a privilege, the government can still find X million quid for the funeral of an almost universally loathed figure whose very actions in selling off all the social housing stock have led to the bedroom tax being introduced in the first place.

This woman, above everyone else in living memory, wanted to minimise what the state took from the wealthy and what it gave to the needy. A state that is now expected to pay for her funeral. If she gets an £X million funeral, we should all get one.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:27 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derivative wrote:
I'll gladly chip in my 50p for the funeral of a past leader of this country.

I don't want "leaders", I want my elected politicians to be public servants who do what they're damn well told.

You missed out Major, who was the best of the lot. He kept his ego in check and ran out the clock for 7 years doing as little as possible. A perfect politician.
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 14:33 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the bedroom tax were actually a tax and not a reduction in handouts, and everyone was the Prime Minister, and Thatcher was actually 'almost universally loathed' (as opposed to simply being loathed within your social circles), then I'd be inclined to agree with you.
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Chalky.
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

The poor put fuck all into the pot, yet they're the ones moaning Laughing
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 14:51 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to put it in perspective:

1. Thatcher saved us about £75 billion through the rebate.
2. These sickeningly rich sods pay a boat loaads of tax, and more than pay for their own attendance. They probably also subsidise your tax contributions!

Sload wrote:
If all the fanfare is to be believed, he seems to be doing a good job of burying his party Thinking


His party is buried because of his actions on Europe, immigration and more recently his sh1tty attitude towards UKIP (he's essentially said he doesn't want his voters back). Some may blame him for the economy, but that's a widely shared failure.

colin1 wrote:
If one of my relatives die, the funeral is paid for out of the money they had.


If that relative was regarded thoughout much of the UK and the world as one of the greatest British leaders to ever live, then I'm sure they'd get a ceremonial funeral too! The fact that many people hate her doesn't detract from those that do, and they're having their own celebrations as far as I can tell.

yen_powell wrote:
It could be done more cheaply I'm sure.

Wonder if Arthur Scargill still keeps a pick and shovel for old times sake in the cupboard at his luxury union paid flat.


It HAS been done more cheaply, at Thatchers request. No laying in state and no flypast, she saved millions, even on her deathbed.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 14:58 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derivative wrote:
If the bedroom tax were actually a tax and not a reduction in handouts

Does the mechanism by which money is being taken away from people matter? If you want to talk about negligible amounts of money, then the bonus the "spare room surcharge" will give to the state purse is a pretty tiny one too. But it'll destroy the families that rely on that housing benefit.

Derivative wrote:
and everyone was the Prime Minister

Why should "having been prime minister" qualify you for an all-expenses paid funeral? It's just a job. Granted it's not a very well paid job, but the perks you get for years afterwards are reward enough. Just ask Tony.

Derivative wrote:
and Thatcher was actually 'almost universally loathed' (as opposed to simply being loathed within your social circles), then I'd be inclined to agree with you.

I haven't done a straw poll amongst my social circles, to be honest, to find out how loathed she is. I don't even loathe her personally; I never met her. But I recognise the damage she did to huge swathes of the country, the lack-of-compassion she instilled in society and the greed-is-good mindset that has dogged us ever since. She's a Nixon not a Lincoln and I don't believe she should be celebrated. She should just disappear.

Chalky. wrote:
The poor put fuck all into the pot, yet they're the ones moaning

I am neither poor nor moaning. Just highlighting the double-standards at play here.


Last edited by angryjonny on 15:00 - 12 Apr 2013; edited 1 time in total
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derivative wrote:
If the bedroom tax were actually a tax .


This times over 9000.

Regardless of the right or wrongs of the policy, its not a fucking tax. Calling it a tax makes "that sort" look like even more of spineless than usual.

Oh no! Big Daddy govt is giving me less things for free!! I'm being taxed!!! Sad Sad
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 15:01 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:
Derivative wrote:
If the bedroom tax were actually a tax .


This times over 9000.

Regardless of the right or wrongs of the policy, its not a fucking tax. Calling it a tax makes "that sort" look like even more of spineless than usual.

Oh no! Big Daddy govt is giving me less things for free!! I'm being taxed!!! Sad Sad


Mmm.

I find it rather odd that people place so much focus on changes, rather than the complete situation.

For example, if some benefit (made up numbers) were reduced from £60/week to £55/week, the focus is on the reduction.

The fact that people are getting 55 quid a week is just taken for granted.

To me that's rather strange.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 15:05 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:
Oh no! Big Daddy govt is giving me less things for free!! I'm being taxed!!! Sad Sad

What do you think people are doing with their housing benefit, investing it in stocks and shares?

It's going straight into the pockets of the private landlords who now own the housing-stock that Thatcher sold off. In a practical sense this policy simply squashes families into smaller houses. In a political sense it makes the government look like they're doing something about the defecit whilst giving them carte blanche to exercise their thumping-the-poor muscles as the rest of us look on thinking "serves you right you spongers."
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 12 Apr 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

angryjonny wrote:

It's going straight into the pockets of the private landlords who now own the housing-stock that Thatcher sold off. In a practical sense this policy simply squashes families into smaller houses. In a political sense it makes the government look like they're doing something about the defecit whilst giving them carte blanche to exercise their thumping-the-poor muscles as the rest of us look on thinking "serves you right you spongers."


I know that, the biggest people to profit from housing benefit are buy-to-letters.

If you read my post, I didn't say whether the policy was good or bad. I happen to think there is actually a lot of bad to it. My point was on naming it "something-tax", which is just silly....
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