125 Varadero Idle Problem

[browland]

Hi guys, first post from a new rider here - hoping to get some advice for what I hope is a newb problem

I bought a second-hand 2004 varadero 125 4 days ago. Been going great for the first 3 days, done about 50 miles, certainly not ragging it. But of yesterday I can't seem to get it warmed up, or at least it won't idle with the throttle closed!

I pull the choke right out, then try to start it electronically. It won't start without a bit of gas. So I keep my hand on the gas at say 1500rpm for a few minutes. As soon as I close the throttle (even very gently rolling it off) it cuts out (once it gets down to 1000rpm).

Another thing is the revs jump around randomly while it's running with my hand on the gas (I'm pretty sure I'm keeping my hand steady ...) This seems pretty unusual - surely a recognisable symptom? The temperature gauge was up to 2 bars which seems fairly warm (I'm guessing as I don't have the manual)?

Might be worth mentioning - I was riding it in the rain for a good couple of hours before this happened, so I'm not sure if water could have got into anything. I also fuelled it up on the same day - perhaps something bad got into the tank.

I've read that this kind of problem might mean the carb needs cleaning out, but this seems odd as it's only just been serviced (although I think it had been sat around for a while previously) and this problem only suddenly came about after it was going just fine yesterday.

The place I bought it from said they'd fitted a new battery, and I've been careful not to run it down (in case that could be related).

Hoping for advice on anything further I can check or even fix myself (entirely inexperienced with bike maintenance) without having to push it 3 miles to a repair shop just to find it's a newb issue!

Cross-posted this to the varadero forum but hoping to get help here as it could just be a general bike thing.

Thanks in advance!

[P.]

Well, get it on choke, go for a ride for a few minutes then turn the choke off. Keep riding the bike around for another 10-15 mins and then pull over.

Your idle should be 1400 - 1500 rpm, aim for the lower end so 1450rpm is ideal. If its low, turn it up, if its high, turn it down.

[YBR Ric]

I doubt if any service would ever include cleaning out the carb jets
Carb jets do tend to block up from sediment left behind by evaporating fuel over time, always a problem
if a bike has been standing and the evaporated fuel in the carb is being constantly topped up from the tank.

It would be well worth dropping the float bowl off and inspecting the idle and main circuit jets.
Do this in a bowl or over a large white sheet so you can ensure anything that drops out can be found easily.

This video that came up on a quick search... should give you an idea of which brass bits you need to remove and check.
Do not poke the jets orifices with anything metal as they damage easily - a cocktail stick is fairly safe!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USqw8tYDUbw

[P.]

With regards to the above... they are a complete wang to get off. You need to remove the tank, which means the side fairings and the seat.

About 40 minutes just to get to the damn carbs, then they are a pain to get back in

[browland]

I'd like to think Paddy's first reply is the answer and it'll sort itself out with riding a bit. Isn't it unusual though to have to pin the throttle open for the first mile or two while idling at lights/junctions (with the revs bouncing around weirdly in my case? :-S) Maybe it would sort itself out this way, I really don't know.

Taking the bike to bits - I'd have a crack if I had a garage and more spare time, but the bike's on a public road 5 minute's walk from my house. Perhaps fiddling with the carb isn't a good first project - I'm bound to funk it up and be off the road for a good while :-/

I can see myself walking it to the repair shop in the end On the bright side I'll be glad to get problems like this sorted in time for summer

[SQL]

[GreyFox]

Hi Browland, I have had some minor niggles with the Varadero before regarding idle and starting choke position. Since you can at least get it started, try the following...

If the temp gauge is only showing 2 bars, she isn't warmed up yet. Get her running around until showing 4 bars on the display, probably ten minutes or so according to the official owner's manual, then pull over. Dismount and keep her turning over with a bit of throttle if necessary. Make sure it's in neutral!

On the pre fuel injection Varadero engine there is an 'idle speed adjuster' located just below the choke knob. try adjusting this to achieve around 1.5k rpm with no hand on the throttle. Clockwise for faster, anti-clockwise for slower. Small moves, let the engine settle between times. Hopefully that will be your idle problem fixed.

For starting from cold, fuel on, choke all the way out, 5 slow windings of the throttle, pulled all the way back and then all the way back to closed. Choke to half-way and then spark the ignition. I have found this technique starts the Varadero most times, whether sub zero or just restarting from warm. You may have to blip the throttle and adjust the choke a little, but this should work. If not, I'd take the bike to a mechanic.

Also, check Amazon or equivalent for the Haynes manual and the official owner's manual. I'm no mechanic either, but they at least help with basic maintenance and diagnosis of problems.

Good luck...
____________________
2005 Honda XL125 V5 Varadero - Current bike

[P.]

You are only in London, if you fancy a ride to Maidstone, more than happy to look at it for you, in turn you can take the CBR for a spin. Its like a loaner for people that have work done

[browland]

Thanks GreyFox for the advice and also Paddy!

Unfortunately the problem seems to have got worse today. It will only start with the choke fully out (which I was doing before) and with the gas quarter-on. Then it revs wildly by itself (as though fuel mixture is not flowing smoothly) and eventually cuts out after less than a minute.

I tried the winding of the throttle trick with starting it on half-choke but couldn't start it at all that way.

It's distinctly unhappy

There's a place near me which does recovery so I'll give them a call or maybe I'll walk it over there at the weekend.

At least now I know it should be on 4 bars when warm!

Edit: Haynes manual already ordered from Amazon - should be delivered tomorrow

[P.]

Sounds pretty basic, where are you in London?

[SQL]

My bike idles at 2.8kish that gets annoying!

[Az]

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=269380

This guy had similar problems, had to ride with choke, idling erratically, happened while riding in rain.

Someone replied saying it may have be water getting into electrics, water getting into spark plug tunnels and drain the float bowls.

[browland]

Been too busy with work to look more into this. This morning I had some time to fiddle about, and ... oh dear ... I'd committed the most elementary mistake concerning the fuel tap What a nobster! I was sure it was in the right position but maybe I was fiddling about with it at some stage or I was the victim of a practical joke ...

Anyway, no more terrible fuel flow (unsurprisingly) but I still have to hold the throttle open to keep it idling. So back to the original problem. Held the throttle open for about 5 minutes - holding revs steady at around 2k - temp never got higher than 1 bar which is perhaps normal. If I roll off the throttle the engine will die. Had to give up and cycle into work at that point.

I'm no longer concerned this is a major problem though.

Maybe I just need to ride it and slip the clutch to keep the revs high until it warms up. Or idle speed may need adjusting - I tried turning this clockwise but it feels held back by a spring and I didn't want to force it ... I've heard people having to twist it against resistance until it finally turns, though. Anyone had experience of this?

[YBR Ric]

The main problem with this carb adjustment screws (especially the brass ones) is that if they don't get tweaked a little they do tend to dry seize.
I usually turn mine in and back out a 1/4 turn every service to ensure this never occurs. Unless the spring is coil bound you shouldn't have any
problems but it might be wise to turn it anti clockwise first before trying to turn it clockwise to increase tickover speed.
It's always wise to hold the throttle open a little when raising the throttle slide with the adjusting screw - it avoids stress on the the threads, the tip and the slide.

If moving the mixture screw has little effect that would also add to the indication of a problematic idle circuit - either with the jet or an air/fuel passage.

[keymaster360]

if carb setting dont work just double check the pilot jet, had a scooter with that problem 3 weeks ago

[GreyFox]

[browland]

Fair enough, I guess I meant I couldn't keep it running at idle without holding the throttle open which seemed unusual.

I went out this morning to WD-40 the idle adjuster but the bike wouldn't even start at all . Can hear starter motor but engine not firing up, regardless of choke or throttle position. It had been raining a lot during the day which adds to the water theory.

I'll finally have some time over the weekend to have a proper look at it. I know people have said to look at the carburettor but I don't feel confident going to this level of maintenance yet, and don't have enough time for lots of trial and error to be honest.

I called a repair shop 3 miles away who said to check the condition of the spark plugs (relating to it not starting) so I'll do that. Hopefully I can ride that far over the weekend otherwise I'll push it there and get it sorted.

[browland]

She idles!

Discovered that the fuel tap has to be in the reserve position, and won't work in 'on'. Tank is nearly full. I previously thought it had been off, but I must have had it either in 'on' or 'reserve' at different times, not realising it was making all the difference. Bum.

Another weird thing - the choke seems to be working the opposite way to normal - pulling it out lowers the revs, pushing it in raises them. Funny. The revs still jump around a bit with the choke out.

So got the helmet and gloves on, then gloves back off to unchain it, then gloves back on, and off again to do up my helmet ... finally ready to go ... and it stalled pulling away in first.

Gentle as I could, but no dice. Choke in or out, it stalls. It's as though the engine can't take any load.

Any thoughts on why it would do that? Edit: maybe I need to give it much higher revs than normal as it does seem a bit knackered. Didn't think to try that. I could at least get it to the shop that way.

This thread is probably highly annoying by now

[GreyFox]

[Zero]

Water in the fuel tank? Its easy for the garage to fix it so don't panic, but its certainly something I would look into (no not literally, its dark in there!) with what you're describing.

All those random droplets seem to build up over the years and tend to just sit in the bottom on the tank. If you had a see-through bucket with a litre of petrol in it, and poured in 100ml of water on top and left it overnight, you would see a clear level of water at the bottom of the bucket with the petrol as a separate layer on top the next day. Your petrol tank could be that bucket.

I might be wrong (it happens once or twice a year) but yeah definitely worth investigation.
____________________
'01 Suzuki GZ125 - scrapped
'91 Kawasaki GT550 - given away
'95 Honda VRX400 / '08 Yamaha XT660R - current bikes