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| nathan k |
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nathan k
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Rogerborg
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 Posted: 09:38 - 05 Jul 2013  Post subject: |
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GPz305 frame with a GPz305 engine. Buy mine. 
Actually sort of serious. They are very neat bikes, 164kg wet as standard, kicking out over 30bhp from a highly stressed engine - that's in the spirit to begin with.
There are a few incomplete cafe conversions out there. If mine doesn't sell, I might start hacking away at it.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Mr Calendar
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| Posted: 10:21 - 05 Jul 2013 Post subject: |
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I found this Honda 125 cafe racer thread an interesting read. It might help you?
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stinkwheel
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Posted: 11:12 - 05 Jul 2013  Post subject: |
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Why make life unecessarily complicated. Use the frame that goes with the engine, avoiding all the hassle of getting it all to work, the necessity of re-registering it, the inconvenience of an MSVA test and generally standing some chance of it not appearing on ebay in two years time as "Cafer racer project, 90% complete. £1,000s spent." then going for £300.
Remember. Clipons and a racing seat without rearsets will make you look like a shitting frog.
So. GN250, SR250, CB250RS. Why? Simplex frame, single cylinder, aircooled. All you need to do is cosmetics. A CG125 frame can barely cope with the engine it has.
CB250RS is a lovely motorcycle so if you turn one into an unrideable hipster shitting frog bike without rearsets or a rear mudguard and with unecessarily knobbly tyres, it will go badly for you. If you turn one into a nice, rideable cafe racer with a wee nose fairing and a tidy little single seat unit, I will be impressed.
Or just keep your eye out for a GB500 (admittedly, not all that common) and ride it as-is.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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nathan k
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| Posted: 13:16 - 05 Jul 2013 Post subject: |
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Some good advice, thanks for that link too!
The Idea was to buy a 125 and gradually turn it in to the bike I want as I don't turn 19 for a fair few months. Then once I can do my test, do a engine swap. I'm of course going for the end product, but for me it's about the journey to get there and it seemed that much more interesting to at least have a engine swap on the cards. In regards to rear sets, I have some experience with CAD design as well as starting a engineering course soon. I have had some custom rear sets made for my current bike and was really pleased with the results.
I have yet to work on a four stroke engine and that's the main reason for choosing four stroke over two despite 2 stroke being a much better (and authentic) option.
After all, Isn't a Cafe racer about combining the most powerful engine with the best frame?
I wouldn't be touching the engine until it looks as exactly as I want it but if you guys could point in the direction of the best 125 frame to start with, i'd greatly appreciate it. I'm happy to fabricate a sub frame.
So, IF, you had to combine a 250+ engine in a 125 frame, how would you go about? 
Thanks
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bikenut
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 14:47 - 05 Jul 2013 Post subject: |
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| nathan k wrote: | The Idea was to buy a 125 and gradually turn it in to the bike I want as I don't turn 19 for a fair few months. Then once I can do my test, do a engine swap.
I'm of course going for the end product, but for me it's about the journey to get there |
Nice Sentiments there; but you are compounding a lot of aspirations into one little bike.... it can be a lot for them to handle.
And as a 19 year old I have to say, time works at a different scale to an old duffer like me.... projects can really drag out... and big risk that other stuff will get in the way, especially when you are your age and life is probably pretty hectic, and interests diverse and random and persued with instantainiousely gained and just as easily lost passion and enthusiasm.... especially if it has tits!
[quote="nathan k"]I have yet to work on a four stroke engine and that's the main reason for choosing four stroke over two despite 2 stroke being a much better (and authentic) option.
Err... not quite. The 'Era' of the Cafe Racer is the mid 1960's, when the big-boys all rode four-strokes, like the Velocette Thruxton, or a Norton Dominator, Triumph Bonaville, or an AJS.
Two-strokes were for lawn-mowers and the post-man. Bikes like the BSA Bantam, or any of the villier's powered machines, like a James or Fanny-B; light-weight commuters.
At that time, the two-stroke was still falling short of the four-stroke for bhp per cc, due to the horendouse ;'trapping efficiency' of the simple piston ported engine; that by rights shouldn't even work!
Ports opened by a hole in the piston passing hole in cylinder wall... as piston goes 'up' opening port to suck charge into the crank case... that port stays open until the piston has come back down again, far enough to close the port again.... during which time it OUGHT to blow back out, anything its sucked in!
It was only at international level, and in the smaller capacity clases, that the 'advanced' two-stroke was starting to show its promice, with the Disc-Valved MZ's and the Reed-Valved Yamaha's sticking a proper valve in the induction stack, to hold all the piston sucked in on the up stroke, in the crank-case, while it fell, before letting it through the transfers. These were starting to win races; and it wasn't long until 125 two-stroke singles were doubled up to make 250 two-stroke twins; but wasn't until the 70's that the two-strokes really started to challenge the larger capacities, and win 500 championships; and even then, bigger four-strokes still dominated production 'Super-Bike' classes and longer endurance races.
| nathan k wrote: | After all, Isn't a Cafe racer about combining the most powerful engine with the best frame? |
Not really... that was the ethos of the 'Triton'
Norton had the best handling chassis in the feather-bed frame and road-holder forks; but Pa Norton had always held you won races by finishing them, not going fast off the line; so thier engines were always rather concervative.
Edward Turner, was a motor-man; he designed the Areil Square four, as his 'entre' to the business; but the Triumph 500 'speed-twin' was his master-piece; and many say so 'good' it helped kill the British industry as no one did anything different for the next forty years! But anyway. From the start it was a short stroke, high and TWIN camshaft engine. This gave it a very light (by push-rod engine standards) valve train, and made it a bit 'revvy'. Originally designed as a 500, with about 30bhp it was successively bored and tuned, ultimately as big as 750cc and about 60bhp, in factory states of tune, more in the hands of enthusiastic owners.
Turner wasn't all that interested in chassis, and renouned short-arse, insisting that any-bike that rolled out the factory ought to have a seat height low enough he could mount flat foot both sides, rather held them back some more.
So the Triton came about as a natural hybrid; you took a 'Slow' Norton Dommie, or one that had been broken trying to tune it up; and a fast, but probably crashed Trumpet, and mixed the bits that were any good.
Most Tritons were cafe Racers, not all Cafe Racers are Tritons.
It was the Mods & Rockers Era; Mass Produced cars were starting to come down to the price average working man could afford one; and post war rationing had ended so they could have one if they could afford it. Consequently, Powered Two-Wheelers (to allow the Mods thier prat!) were the thing you did until you could afford a car; hence became something of an icon of 'Youth Culture'...
And the 'Cafe' was where the yoofs went to listen to this new fangled Rock'n'Roll..... on an American Duke Box! (Watch the Boat that Rocked if you haven't; British Radio did NOT play Rock; and the transistor radio was still something of a novelty, even if you could get Radio Luxumbourg or Radio Caroline!)
Motorbikes of the era, in the show-room; were regulation 'Road' bikes, and pretty much conventional 'commuter' styled things with token concessions to any sporting or touring or 'off-road' aspirations.
THE factory Cafe of the day was the BSA DBD34 'Gold-Star' Single.
If you google-image search you'll find most are decked out as Cafe's with clip-ons and rear-sets and probably a little bug-screen over the head-lamp. BUT, if you search hard enough, you ought to find one or two in thier 'factory' cloths... looking a lot more like a BSA C15 'commuter'! That is how they were made, it was owners that 'Cafe'd them.
And if you look at period competition entries; they were a clubman favourite, for ameteur racing, but not JUST road-racing. They won many off-road Trials and Scrambles before they started winning tarmac track races.
And that was why they were the clubmans favourite; they were light, tight and could be infinitely modded to suit whatever sporting aspiration was to be followed.... or just mimicked.
BUT; as war shortages were relieved, as aspirations and affluence increased, so Road-Racing that had until then been the preserve of the lucky few factory works riders for the most part; became the 'ultimate' aspiration of most of the Youth Culture generation... who modded thier bikes, if not FOR road racing, at least to ape the style of the bikes in the sport they followed, and maybe get a bit of extra speed from their humble road-bike.
The Triton was one pretty evolved road-race or Cafe special; but most were more likely to be humble AJS or Matcless singles, with the mudguards sawn in half and the handle-bars turned upside down!
It was NOT about marrying best engine and chassis... it was about aping the LOOK of the hero's bikes.. and if you were daft enough, brave enough and good enough... maybe cracking the 'ton' on one of the new smooth 'By-Passes' on it.
| nathan k wrote: | I wouldn't be touching the engine until it looks as exactly as I want it but if you guys could point in the direction of the best 125 frame to start with, i'd greatly appreciate it. I'm happy to fabricate a sub frame.
So, IF, you had to combine a 250+ engine in a 125 frame, how would you go about? Smile |
Seriousely? You are in a mine field. But I would start by seperating the variables.
For 125... I would get a regulation 125. YBR or CG and LEAVE THE LITTLE FUCKER ALONE!
Just ride the thing until I had licence in my pocket. Its not worth getting silly with.
For post test, A2 bike? Well.... doing a project and doing it well; takes a lot of money, and I doubt that you'd have a 45bhp bike long enough for it to be worth while.
AND modded bikes and young riders are not very insurance co freindly....
Being ultra boring; I'd say once you have A2 licence... just get regulation 45bhp commuter bike; GS500 or whatever, and leave THAT not so little fucker well alone! Just ride the use out of it.
For a propper, REAL Cafe Racer... one that is worth the doing, so less likely to come to a halt, and worth the money you put into it when done.... I'd say look at propper classics. Do it slow. Do it right. Get a bike thats the real deal, a real Cafe Era classic not a pretender. Its NOT that much more expensive and its absolutely no more work!
On the cheap? Pocket money Project?
You DONT do a 125. You just DONT.
125's are over-priced because they can be ridden by folk without a licence; and as standard they hold value and sell well. Things that have been butchered, dont sell well, and are rarely worth what the base bike cost, let alone that plus all the bits used to make them 'special'. Its an excersise in futility, and if you have that much money to waste... send a cheque in the post to Caferacer, And Specials Help, or just use the initials C-A-S-H And I'll send you a CB125 Cafe Special Kit I'll even incluse the rust-flakes for free!
Your 'Base' bike will be a LOT cheaper if you look in the big-bike world; and any old bit of tat will do, if it has the right styling features, like twin-shock rear suspension, and wire spoke wheels; and you can still waste a daft amount of money turning it into something not so desirable... but starting with something almost worthless to begin with... you at least cant make it MUCH less valuable! AND you get a bit of extra bang for your buck without having to make engine mounts or burrow into engine internals.
Honda Benleys are cheap as chips; but Old Kawasaki Z250? Honda CB250T?
Trouble is NOW too many people want to do it; or want more 'classic' stlyed classics to restore, and the more likely candidates that aren't plastic clad 80's 'modern' machines, get snapped up.
De-Plasticing 80's machines would be more viable, but they usually also have cast or modular wheels rather than clsssic spokes, and spoked wheels can be pricey, especially for a special...
So, on the cheap you get something more Rat than Cafe, more often, or you dont end up cheap... and doing a REAL 60's classic Cafe, starts looking the more sensible.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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nathan k
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| Posted: 16:05 - 05 Jul 2013 Post subject: |
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Thanks, really interesting and helpful. I hate to say it, but you have changed my mind. Just wondering, a real 60's restoration job, what kind of figures do they run in to?
I'm leaning towards buying a cheap as chips 125 now, with nothing really to lose and seeing how far I get spending as little as possible as in the project posted above. Either way, I want a four stroke to tinker with  |
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stinkwheel
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Posted: 17:57 - 05 Jul 2013  Post subject: |
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The other option is an Enfield.
Authentic 1950's engineering, still being made. I'd go for one of the pre-unit bullets. You can buy everything you need to make one into a cafe racer. You can still get all the parts for them and there is a whole plethora of tuning componants on the market.
Here's what you get if you throw £4,500 in parts at a 500 bullet (£2,300 of that is a bigbore tuning kit, the remainder is cosmetics). Producing about 40bhp at the back wheel (which is a lot more than it sounds when a 612cc pushrod single is delivering it, it's comparable to what you're getting from aircooled Japanese singles of a similar capacity).
https://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/news/30542/pictures/content267/gpad3.jpg
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Teflon-Mike
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Posted: 18:29 - 05 Jul 2013  Post subject: |
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| nathan k wrote: | Thanks, really interesting and helpful. I hate to say it, but you have changed my mind. Just wondering, a real 60's restoration job, what kind of figures do they run in to? |
There's a base price to 'do' a resto on anything; and realistically, to do a bike, ground up, and do it justice, you ought to be thinking thousand, two thousand quid; irrespective of what it is.
I mean, paint isn't any cheaper, because you are chucking it an an old MZ125, not a Vincent Black-Shaddow. Wheels are wheels, bolts are bolts; and a lot of stuff is just 'work' which has to be done whether you are working on some old unloved, unapreciated bit of Chinky-Crap thats only a few years old, or some bit of vaunted motorcycling history, thats a few decades old.
After that? Projects will consume as much money as you let them... basically.
So, do a bike you would really LIKE to own at the end; because sure as eggs is eggs; it'll owe you when done, if not in hard cash penies, in blood, sweat and tears, and more than likely both, so riding the thing is only way to get the value from that 'investment'...
And a 'substitute' for the bike you REALLY wanted is never going to deliver the 'joy' for all the effort that's gone into it, and you'll be justifying the damn thing the whole tiome and making excuses why its in some way worth it all... rather than JUST enjoying having what you bludy wanted in teh first place!
Now; scrap for restoration, tends to fetch a premium these days.
Once upon a time, you could go pick up a Triumph Bonaville in bits shovel it into the boot of Dads car. Chap getting rid would probably only be too glad to be rid; and even happiuer you were going to attempt the impossible and make it work again, and make you a cup of tea, after all your exhersions, and chuck you a fiver to help get the project started, for clearing out his shed!
Such project 'Base' bikes, these days can fetch thousands, depending on what they are. You can pick up base-bikes for a couple of hundred, BUT... the cheaper they are, usually the more expensive they will end up being.
BUT, ironically, more people will buy a 'cheap' project base, as they wont want to 'waste' money buying a whole working, taxed, tested motorcycle... 'just' to take it all to bits.
Though these tend to be the better bet. More viable the bike is to begin with, more chance that you wont get stuck without some bit of pure unobtanium you cant get hold of for love nor money; you already have it; AND you know what it should look like, and where it ought to be ON the bike, because its THERE already.
CB750's. They have been making them as long as I have been on the planet. The early, wire wheel, SOHC models though are the ones that, in decent nick, command money. Concourse examples of pristine unrestored ones can break into five figure prices; more realistic riders, about half that, but up in the sort of price range that would buy you a brand new Suzuki SV650, depending on standard & condition and time of year selling. Something ratty, but rideable, likely to not command much more than two grand... YET, something offered for restoration... falling to bits, in bits, not all there... can fetch almost as much!
Bike worth doing though, as potential is there for something worth as much as a brand new bike when done, if done well.
BUT, the only slightly more expensive, complete, but ratty 'rider' is the more ecconomical and better bike to go for, than the scrap-heap-special.
And here is what I am saying about doing a bike you REALLY want; not something that just happens along at the right time, when you have some money in your pocket.
Many people, who would baulk at spending over £1000 on a pile of scrap, CB750, will kid themselves (or the missus) that a CB500 that looks a bit like the 750, that comes along for £300 is a good buy....
Yeah.. they have saved £700... but by the time they have spent two grand bringing it up to rideable condion, the unloved, less desirable 500, has a market value of maybe £1500, more likely a grand, resale.... a loss if punted out to do another of £1000-£1500... and it would take a LOT of riding the bike you didn't really want in the first place, making excuses for it, while you're at it, to get not so much 'value' from it.
Stump up; get NOT just the £1000 basket case CB750 SOHC, but £2K to get the 99% complete and working one.... and you will still spend £2K restoring it.... but at the end of the job, if you have done it half decently, and much better chance you will, and less chance of finding job-stopper hassles, to dampen your lesser enthusiasm for the thing.... you have a six grand bike to look at.... you are up £2K on the job AND you haven't got any excuses and you have the FULL joy of the bike you really wanted to start with!
Make sense?
SO.... you do your research and you look at what is out there, and you decide what machines have best ecconomic resale when 'done', and you decide of those, which one you REALLY want to own.
Then you PAY WHATEVER IT TAKES to get it!
And its a Project. Can be whatever you want it to be. Can take as long as it tajes to get it. And if that means the job takes a bit longer saving up for bits as you go.... so be it.... at LEAST its something you WANT and that is WORTH it when done, and not all going to be wasted when you have a 'last straw' hassle, that makes you chuck it up on e-bay as an unfinished project and just take whatever you can from it and cut your losses.
And I cant tell you what anything might cost. Its a piece of string question. It really is. There's just too many variables. And does it really matter?
First quetion is how much do you have to throw at the project to get one off the stops and started, and is that enough to get you a vible 'base' of the model you want at the end?
What Classics catch your eye?
I used CB750SOHC as case example; but you have the Big Kwak Zeds; The traditional Brits, top choice being the ubiquiteouse Bonnie. Though I like the old Beeza's. For exotic you also have lots of old Italians; for the challenge; or for something that could serve as every-day classic the old air-head Beemers. Lots of bikes "Worth Doing".
But for a first timer; I would probably reccomend a traditional Big-Brit. The later Co-Op built 'unit-construction' Triumph Bonavilles, last of the 'Meriden' push-rod Triumphs are a pretty good place to start. The later bikes are more user-freindly and could be every day useable; yet are not so well loved as the earlier models; we're talking late 70's through mid 80's machines, and most will be 750's. They don't command such strong collectors prices 'done', but they aren't so weak as to not be worth doing; or garanteed to make a loss. Parts support for them is better, and you dont need to be SO neurotic over the original catalogue standard, to ensure 'value'.
Use that as a starting point, and bench-mark. If I were to have a crack at one, I would expect to have to spend, between £1500 and £3000 to get a 'worthy' base bike to work on. I might strike lucky and pick something up for a grand or less, but couldn't bank on it.
As Said, that base bike, would be as close to a complete, running, riding, road-worthy, if not road-legal machine as I could lay my hands on for the money, and as close to original and standard as I could get. I wouldn't dismiss machines with non-standard handlebars, seats or mudguards and stuff, but things more seriousely modded, maybe choppered, would put me off.
Then home. Assess the thing. Realistically its going to come down to bare metal on the frame and get built back up. Does the engine run. Does it run smoothly? Is it smoking like a trooper? Where do I put my attension, what stuff is 'most' important, where does first spend go?
And starting to spend? I would probably plan, a budget of about £4K less whatever the base bike cost me.
£2K for the base? Leaves another £2K over however long project takes to get the bike finished. That would be my target. Almost certainly wouldn't hit it.... but.... T140's seem to command around the £5K mark up.
So, leaves a grand of 'margin' before the project risks going into loss making; but good T140's can fetch six-seven grand, so there's still a fair chance it could come good, and even if it does run over... at £6K project total, for a bike that sells for £5K... you have only got a net loss of a grand... which you could EASILY loose on a 'cheap' bike that never makes it, or more on one that does!
And have at LEAST got the bike you really wanted for that money, and after the tax and test, and that first ride after its all done and legal.... believe me THAT feeling is priceless.....
So in the big scheme, you are putting bigger money on the table 'all in' but the risks, are smaller the potential losses smaller, the potential profit greater. Its a 'better bet' in other words.
So, from that rough-cut.... work back. How much would you like to do a project for? What project would you like to do? IS it one that could make money of be better or worse risk, rated against a T140 bench-mark, or CB750 bench-mark?
CAN you do it?
If so... get on with it kid!
But planning and research is the key, and its then not about the money, its about being SMART with the money. It will cost what it costs, and once on the path, you just have to keep feeding it for as long as it takes to give it what it needs..... so MAKE sure its worth it.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 18:42 - 05 Jul 2013 Post subject: |
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| stinkwheel wrote: | The other option is an Enfield. |
I was waiting for that!
These do have merit, but weigh them up.
The genuine Redditch Built Royal Enfields are a lot more desiorable and expensive than the modern Indian build Enfields.
Renovating a Reditch Bullet, using India bits is very viable, and is low risk, but ecconomics are not so wonderful.. renovated Redditch Bikes have to compete in the market place against brand New Indian built examples, and for non mechanically minded buyer, a warranty can be worth a lot more than the small cudos of where the thing was built.
Doing one as a 'Project'.... they are enthuisiasts bikes... and you can do a heck of a lot with them... but not ecconomically. HAS to be a bike you are going to ride out the value from, with long term ownership.
| stinkwheel wrote: | Here's what you get if you throw £4,500 in parts at a 500 bullet (£2,300 of that is a bigbore tuning kit, the remainder is cosmetics). Producing about 40bhp at the back wheel (which is a lot more than it sounds when a 612cc pushrod single is delivering it, it's comparable to what you're getting from aircooled Japanese singles of a similar capacity).
https://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/news/30542/pictures/content267/gpad3.jpg |
As counter-Point? Here's a Co-Op era T140 Bonaville. More desirable wire wheel model.
https://i.ebayimg.com/t/TRIUMPH-T140V-TR7-750cc-1978-Black-Red-PX-Twinshock-Trials-Bike-/00/s/MTA2M1gxNjAw/z/9lYAAOxyi3FRzrUv/$T2eC16hHJF8FFptLrbMPBRzrUvLNvQ~~60_58.JPG
Candy Red over black is a pretty colour scheme; enthusiast owned and 'unrestored' in so far as its not uinder gone full ground up renovation, just maintained well, as required and kept in service.
Same Price; £4.5K of any-ones money Buy it Now. Actually a bit cheap for the model, but pretty 'standard' a known quantity that would attract a lot of buyers.
Thats a 1978 bike. BTW.
The earlier 'unit' model is the T120, which straddles late 60's & early 70's. Pricers are a tad stronger on those. The earlier still 'pre-unit' T110's are much stronger priced, and you can possibly double the numbers suggested for bench-mark for them.
Other 60's machines are a lot cheaper; but many marques didn;'t survive long past the 1972 Demise of the BSA Conglomerate, and made in much smaller numbers, can be a much more daunting prospect for a newby to the game.
I mean, If I was to go for an Enfield... on I would really WANT is a Connei..... semi-uinit construction 800cc and built like a brick. But in SUCH small numbers that restoration would be seriouse challenge, even with a good near complete base; and I;d be held to ransom over bits, IF I could track them down.
More common bikes of the era; AJS and Matchless singles; had a hand in a couple of resto's on them; and they are easier, as the model was more common, but less desirable, less well supported with 'new' replacement parts or bits that can be salvaged from later models... so you are constantly searching an ever deminishing supply of scrap for bits, and chasing pennies on bikes that will never command the same money.
Nortons? The later NVT group bikes from the later 70's are reasonably well supported and more viable; but the more desirable models from the 1960's are a lot harder to do; but ARE worth the money if done.... so many got chopped up to make Cafe Racers or Tritons 'in the day'!
Hence coming back constantly to the T140 as representing such a 'good-bet' for a newby to classics and classic resto's.
Just thought to; Cought a glimpse of one being 'done' on the motorcycle show, the other day; may be worth checking out catch-up-TV... but sure theres lots of T140 Resto vids on u-tubes and blogs on them about the net. If people are doing them; must be for good reason, reasons that are worth heeding.
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Blau Zedong |
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Blau Zedong
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unitynotsocri...
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| Posted: 15:42 - 06 Jul 2013 Post subject: |
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If you want some lightweight fun try a CCM for a cafe racer single . They do a road/dirt bike model thats a 400 but weighs like a 125.
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nearly a normal tax paying tosser.......with ferrileness suzi100,cg125,cb125scb100n,cb175,cd100,cj250t,kh250,c15,125 bantam,super 6,rickman gs750,xt500,250rs,dt175,lifan125,dolomite1850,metro,Morris220ld,morrisfg,leyland princess,range rover,corsa,vw camper .now struggling with legs. MORE ORDER = MORE CHAOS |
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nathan k
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| Posted: 09:48 - 08 Jul 2013 Post subject: |
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That SDR is really beautifull. Only problem with all these lovely bikes is that I can't drive 'em for bloody ages! I don't think i could justify such a expensive toy either (or afford it). I did see a Benelli 125 on ebay however...Could be potential! |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 12 years, 175 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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