Cornering Question

[Springbok_Rider]

Hi all,

I've been working on my cornering quite a bit recently and progressively getting faster. Yesterday I had a session in which everything seemed to "click" and I had a good run.

However, last night I watched MCN's video on getting your knee down and it seems the consensus is to try and put your head and shoulder past your inside mirror, keep your inside foot's toes on the peg so you have hip flexibility and go for it.

My question is, is this the way you guys take every corner? I'm trying to be fluid and while the bike seems to turn in way quicker, the above advice just doesn't feel natural to me compared to how I usually take corners (knees hugging the tank and using my torso/counter steering to maneuver the bike).

I ride a lot smoother when I think less and just go for it, but every now and then I need to assess, learn and adjust.

Do you guys have a certain way you take every corner, or does it really depend on the corner which way you take it?

Regards,
Antony.
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2005 SV650 ---> 2002 CBR 600 FS ---> 2010 Monster 1100 ---> 2006 Yamaha YZ250F ---> 2008 Street Triple 675

[-Matt-]

Firstly i honestly wouldn't try knee down much if at all on the road - especially if you've only just got used to cornering more efficiently - likely to end in tears and a scratched bike

It varies - some people find it different to others, often dependant on your size and frame and also the slight differences in seating position people take, particularly on sport bikes for example where leg-size difference and seat position can make a huge difference to how you sit and handle the bike once leaning.

Although it might be the 'most effective' way to get your head etc past the mirror, you also need to bare in mind this is for example being advised by MCN on a flat nicely surfaced track i would imagine - on a cambered bumped road, going that low and that far over doesn't give you much stability to re-right yourself should you hit a bump and jolt, so not only are you probably less safe and stable you are also going to corner less effectively as youre going to have to ensure the fact your heads out further etc doesn't mean you're about to headbut oncoming cars on sharp turns

Years back in school before i was riding, 2 boys in college near me had their new bikes out in summer - were rather foolishly attempting to knee down going round and round sharp country lanes - until they met an oncoming truck which decapitated the pair of them

The local training school i used for my tests now tells the story to all their new pupils as a warning

As you say - it seems smoother doing it your way, so keep doing it that way, so long as its a safe method that isn't making you weave into oncoming traffic - its probably the right method for now, if you want more advanced guideance on 'professional' corning try a police run BikeSafe course, or IAM in your local area, who will teach you the more technical aspects of cornering.

[c_dug]

It depends how much you're pushing it but realistically speaking there is rarely a need to hang right off of the bike while riding on the road like in KD tutorials.
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[clancy]

As above really, I only hang off the bike when I'm really pushing it otherwise it's completely overkill and feels unneeded and not natural like you said. When you are really going for it, it does feel natural though in my opinion
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KLX 300r

[Springbok_Rider]

Thanks for the responses, and fair point on the road surface/adjusting and such.

I have textiles at the moment so getting my knee down properly would likely end in all sorts of noise and pain anyway. However, I'm just trying to get the gist of it for when I finally get to the track.

A guy on a Speed Triple overtook me a couple of weeks ago and while I was already slowing down for the corner to come, he put his knee down went for it. Naturally, I wanted to follow suit and keep up but am trying to stay within my limits while I learn so I don't end up wrapped around a tree.

I'll be back in the UK later next month so will definitely take a course. Hoping to take the Keith Code Superbike School 2 day course when I get to Oz later this year.
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2005 SV650 ---> 2002 CBR 600 FS ---> 2010 Monster 1100 ---> 2006 Yamaha YZ250F ---> 2008 Street Triple 675

[clancy]

Try the leaning off the bike thing when your pushing it and see how you feel, but general ridling you don't need too. Just need to build up the confidence slowly to go faster and lean further
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KLX 300r

[G]

To get used to hanging off properly when racing, I would ride like that everywhere. Including at 5mph in the work car park.

Meant that rather than where I would initially 'forget' as stuff got more heated on track, my body naturally fell in to that position.

I'm not the sort that cares what most think about me; if you are, then doing it at 5mph in the work car park is probably better avoided!

[-Matt-]

Yeah good training is the key to doing it successfully in any case - and i'd personally keep it for the track days - but even then you will find its rarely NEEDED its normally show-boating gibbons that do it half the time.

To actually NEED to get your knee down you've got to get some serious angle on the bike, and you're talking needing to have the tyres warmed right up and so forth and possibly pegs/boot tips grinding for that sort of lean.

The average rider should never really need to get even that close to a knee down especially on road - if you are i'd say you're exagerating on purpose or riding probably fairly unsafely, if not a combination of both.

If you are going to try it also i'd get a good pair of leathers and whack some knee sliders on, so if you are successful - it doesn't cost you a knee cap

[c_dug]

Wouldn't be that drastic if you did get a knee down in textiles, it would just be a waste of a good set of trousers.

I did touch a knee down once, on my CBR, for about half a second. I had been trying with two friends on a roundabout for a good few hours before it happened. It isn't all it's cracked up to be
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[Springbok_Rider]

Yeah, it was my thinking to start taking corners a certain way so that it becomes more natural and subconscious rather than forced. Guess I'll continue not thinking for a better ride!

I'll save this for the track and after some more guidance - perhaps then I'll also be going at speeds and angles that warrant it. At least once I've done it successfully and in the right environment I can reassess what feels natural.
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2005 SV650 ---> 2002 CBR 600 FS ---> 2010 Monster 1100 ---> 2006 Yamaha YZ250F ---> 2008 Street Triple 675

[clancy]

[Springbok_Rider]

[Springbok_Rider]

Also, a concern of mine is to be able to take a corner as efficiently as possible. If a corner creeps up on me and is tighter than expected I don't want to hesitate but get the bike over and ride it out. The question is whether it's more than possible to do this riding regularly or whether it would be wiser to drop the shoulder and slide off the seat as if I were to get my knee down.
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2005 SV650 ---> 2002 CBR 600 FS ---> 2010 Monster 1100 ---> 2006 Yamaha YZ250F ---> 2008 Street Triple 675

[-Matt-]

Too much variation to give a clear answer again really - all depends on speed, corner length, corner tightness, road conditions - about anything that can be a variable will affect it, its knowing what to think and how to act in each situation that will help which is what the training will set you on the right path to learning.

Road position is a huge part in cornering as well not just the body position in relation to the bike itself.

[clancy]

Well leaning off the side is more efficient cornering, that's its purpose. To take any corner whilst keeping the bike as upright as possible to allow better grip and power delivery. You keep the bike further upright by using your body to help turn the corner
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KLX 300r

[clancy]

[Acemastr]

I hang off like a monkey most of the time, just because the bike feels bettter, I feel safer as the bike is more upright
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2017 KTM 350 XC-F - 2014 Yamaha R6 - 2005 Yamaha YZ125
2016 Toyota Tacoma Limited

[G]

[-Matt-]

Sorry i think i worded it unclearly

[G]

I also worded it unclearly it seems, so I'll try differently:
Why is it you think a rider might 'need' to get their knee down?

I'm asking because from my point of view I think you're offering advice from a little 'confused' position.
Have you got your knee down yourself?

Also; IAM and bike safe are most certainly not going to prepare you for taking a corner fast on track.
IAM and bikesafe teach you to not get into the situation where you need to go really fast around a corner in the first place.

Sure, they teach you about reading the road - but on a short-track that mostly shouldn't be an issue (lets ignore the corners at Silverstone where I twice ran on as I forgot there was an extra pair of corners .)

[-Matt-]

I don't think a rider would need to get it down, for the sort of riding the OP was talking about theres no need get your knee down - in my opinion anyway, maybe i'm wrong, or again further misunderstanding in which case apologies its optional which was what i getting at.

If you want to learn to get your knee down - no problem - but first i would do bikesafe/iams to actually learn to corner properly was what i was suggesting - particularly if you're intending to knee down on road. Not because it will directly teach or help you knee down, but because you will corner more safely after doing the courses, obviously as you say not directly associated as they're not exactly encouraging you to go blitzing around bends at speed hanging off, but its general road awareness and so forth that would benefit you to have first in my eyes.

And yeah not on road though - i wouldnt feel safe to do so personally, perhaps thats making me a bit biased in my advice to keep it to track as im being over cautious i dont know

Edit - okay i further noticed i think where im not making sense - im not saying bikesafe or iams relate to improving your knee down skills on a track. Im talking about if youre wanting to do it on road.

[G]

But what WOULD a rider need to get their knee down for?
You mention 'rarely needed', which suggested that in some cases it would be.

I'll spell it out:
To my mind, you get your knee down to judge the angle of lean.
Personally, I tended to hold my knee just above the track when racing, that way if it goes down I knew I was leaning more than normal for that corner.
If you slide, it's possible in a few circumstances it may help the bike recover too, but unlikely generally - when another rider ran over my rear tyre, I believe my knee down may have helped the bike regain traction and carry on.
Finally - people find it fun. Just as going out for a fun ride has no real 'point', so might people stick their knee on the deck on said ride because they enjoy it.

Most people would/should probably learn to 'knee down' at a quiet roundabout or business park etc.
That being the case, the 'advanced' stuff shouldn't matter.
Frankly, I wouldn't advise trying to learn to get your knee down where you'd need to use advanced riding techniques - instead I'd be on the same quiet bit of road taking it over and again.

If you're on a bit of road knew to you with enough traffic to be a concern and you're trying to lean further than you have before, then you're probably going to get yourself in to trouble advanced techniques or not.

So, was it a track day you've had your knee down on?

Hanging off a bike should be separate to getting your knee down and despite advanced people being generally against it, I believe has some very useful positive benefits.
If you are hanging off the bike consistently, it's very little different to stick your knee out if you're decently leant over.

[Acemastr]

I want to get my knee down because it's a challenge, I try to find challenges in everything I do, the bike is a good example as finding that perfect, glorious speed through a corner and getting your knee down is a great goal. I've been riding this bike alone for almost 3 years and I've never had my knee down, this challenge is one that if it happens, it happens, I won't go pushing and hunting for it as it'll just spit me off.

OP, if it happens it happens, do a trackday and i will almost guarantee it'll happen, roads are slippery, gravelly, muddy, dusty, congested pap
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2017 KTM 350 XC-F - 2014 Yamaha R6 - 2005 Yamaha YZ125
2016 Toyota Tacoma Limited

[-Matt-]

I guess maybe i'm viewing it from the wrong angle then perhaps.

[SQL]