Legal requirements for lighting?

[sabian92]

Afternoon BCF,

I'm looking at upgrading the shockingly poor lights on my YBR to LED lights (brake light/indicators) and looking on eBay and the like there's a lot of combined units - I'm guessing these are not legal? Not that I like them, but still, they look dodgy so I'll steer clear.

Can I have an LED brake light with a white cover as long as the actual light displayed is red or does the lens have to be red as well? Likewise with indicators - do the lenses have to be a certain colour or can just the light be the right colour?

I've had a look for the particular regs and can't really find anything that's not in mumbo-jumbo.

Cheers

Edit: Also want a new tail tidy for once I've lost the L plate on the rear but can't find a specific YBR one - can you just fit a generic, universal one?

[map]

Law (vehicle lighting regs) says red light displayed to the rear.
Except amber indicators.
Does not state colour of cover. If you look there are clear indicator covers with yellow/amber bulbs/leds.

However, remember you must also have number plate illumination. This is white but must not be seen from rear. There are leds built into bolts on ebay for this if you get stuck.

I mention as some red covers for rear/brake have a clear section at the bottom so the white bulb also acts as plate illumination. You can get led replacement bulb that have leds pointing back and also around the edge to do the same job.
____________________
...and the whirlwind is in the thorn trees, it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks...
Gibbs, what did Duckie look like when he was younger?

[Kickstart]

Hi

Agree with Map above.

As to combined lights, they aren't legal for a couple of reasons. There is a min spacing for indicators (which isn't an MOT point). But also many of these combined units turn one side of the brake light off as that side flashes as the indicator. This fails the MOT under "The illumination of the stop lamp is affected by the operation of another lamp or the horn."

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[ScaredyCat]

[Llama-Farmer]

Also TECHNICALLY you're also supposed to display a red reflector on the rear.

This is sometimes built into the rear light cluster, or can be a separate reflector on/under the numberplate.

You won't usually have much trouble if you don't have a reflector though, maybe will have to stick one on for the MOT but probably not.
____________________
Current Bike: 1999 Honda CB600 FX Hornet
Next Bike: I want a CBR-RR. And I want an F800 GS-A. And a VFR 800. Can I have all 3?
Dream Bikes: Honda VFR750R RC30, Honda NSR500, Ducati 996 R

[sabian92]

Righty-ho then, sounds easy enough. Any brake light only unit will be okay?

I've got a rear reflector although the MOT place I use basically just kicks the tyres and starts it and gives a pass Not exactly the most stringent of places

Any ideas on a tail tidy? Will any universal ones fit?

[Teflon-Mike]

Check the Construction & Use Regulations 'Lighting Regulations' for detailed and definitive answer. Its somewhere on the .gov website.

But here's my tuppence of advice.

1/ Headlamps need to be white; Indies need to be orange, tail-lamps need to be red. Its illegal to show white light to the rear, (Number-plate lamp should be shrouded so it throws light forwards or down onto plate - actual lamp ought not be visible from behind bike) Other colours are 'silly' and unnecessary, and possibly illegal.

2/ Standard is often the 'best' you'll get.
An awful lot of after market lamps are actually NOT as good as what's fitted as standard. Especially headlamps and LED headlamps in particular.

3/ First rule of modding - Before looking for more than standard - make sure you have all you should AS standard.
Clean the lens! Make sure light can get out of it. Adjust it to point the right way! Make sure reflector still has silvering on it.

4/ if you are worried about the head-lamp... best 'uprgade' is a GOOD HID leadlamp kit. 35w its probably a lower wattage and hence power draw than stock tungesten or halogen bulb, but bungs out at least 10x the light. And if fitted into a standard headlamp, lot less likely to get so hot as a higher wattage Halogen bulb that it melts the plastic lamp unit; or draws more current than switches can handle; melting contact hinges and stuff!

You wont have to LED indies or tail or anything to 'free up' power from the genny to run it; so saves other 'problems'.

5/ Is you LED the indies; you are likely to run into flash-rate issues; especially if you have mix of tungsten bulbs and LED's. Cheap 'balast' kits to load up the flasher unit to correct flash rate, simply make up the wattage draw to that of a tungsten bulb, so rob the power saving you fitted LED's for; so to actually get the gain you are looking for you usually have to change the flasher unit to one timed for low wattage LED's.

6/ Simplest, way to LED your lamps is to stick with the stock lamps, and just fit LED replacement bulbs.

Main advantage is you keep the OE marked and legal lenses on the lamps, which will make plod and MOT man happy. Which is a tip; lens marking is probably as important as light colour, and more important than the technology of what makes the light.

Also means its easily 'reverseable' mod; if you need a replacement bulb in a hurry.

7/ HOWEVER... such 'sense' can be chucked out the window IF your real motives here are not to get better light out the front, but to make some sort of case for why you want to chuck away half decent Original Equipment and fit 'custom' tat of e-bay to make your bike look more... well... usually like some one has taken a useful ecconomy commuter and wasted lots of money on chitty chinky 'custom' bits from a catalogue.... BUT, if that's how you want to spend your money... its YOUR money... my kids spend thiers on silly hair-cuts, piercings, x-box games, body art, drugs, mobile telephones, and ridiculous cloths.... and tell me its all 'essential' to thier 'life-style'....I can understand the drugs.... so who am I to judge... But if that's what you want, dont try and kid yourself, let alone any-one else, its anything but 'jewellery' and not likely to make the bike 'better' than it left the factory.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Llama-Farmer]

[i.p.phrealy]

[MC]

[sabian92]

[map]

[-Matt-]

Ive used various colour lenses, even black on the rear (need to make sure it doesnt effect light brightness of course). No issues as long as the bulbs are correct

Aside from not being legal personally i wouldnt use the combined ones - if you follow someone with one you'll see its very hard to notice signals/breaking at times, id rather no signals at all personally

[smithyithy]

I was after an integrated tail light like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxEmTo_ZvRI

I guess it fails on the minimum spacing, but not on the 'interfering with brake light' as the bulbs are separated..

[Teflon-Mike]

Mini-Indies / Tail-Tidys / Narrow indicator spacing.
A Muse; possibly a boring-old-fart idea; but.

Why do you want small or close-spaced indicators?
Or even indicators at all?

In my yoof, bike lights were pretty crap as a rule, and electrics were often 6v. C&U rules didn't demand indies on a bike, and brake lamp only had to be worked by one brake lever.

Hand Signals were still a part of the motorcycle test. - no one bludy knew what they meant..... even back then!... but still; they were printed in the Highway code, and if you tested on a bike with blinky-cators, examiner was likely to get you to flap your arms around at the side of the road to show him a couple, come the highway code questions.

Indies were, then, something of a liability, especially on a lightweight. Cracked lens was reason enough for plod to pull and shake you down, or MOT man to moan, and they were rarely pleasing to the eye, big, ugly and stuck out on large chrome bolts looking like an after-thought.

Used to ride dirt-bikes, with no lights and Day-light MOT, or road bikes with minimal equipment... and conveniently there was a petrol station at the bottom of road I lived on; happened to be on a round-about, and in the days before cheap domestic pressure washers; they had one instead of a big-brush car-wash; which was convenient for cleaning dirt-bikes.

Was accosted having pulled in there a few times for being ' a bludy loonatic' by car drivers;
C-D: "You don't have a brake light! How am I supposed to know your stopping!"
Me: "Cant you see me getting closer and the gap getting smaller?"
C-D: "[bluster]You're SUPPOSED to have a LIGHT!"
Me: " No actually I'm not, and this: [The 'broken wing bird' slowing down signal] is the signal for 'slowing down'... its in the highway code....
C-D: "THAT! Yeah! THAT'S another thing! I THOUGHT you were turning RIGHT or waving at some-one!"

Car-Drivers.... its not 'right'... but you DO have to pander to their preconceptions and expectations... they struggle SO much dealing with anything 'different', and just being a MOTORBIKE would seem to be alien enough to them...

Hand-Signals? Well, they are an Alien language to them. May be quite right and quite legal to use hand-signals; and might be that they are wholly in the wrong, not bothering to remember what they mean (Though some mitigation; how many of us can remember more obscure and less used parts of highway code since our tests?) But still; JUST 'easier' to talk to them in the language they stand some chance of understanding..... But even then...

A few years back .. in the car, I nearly knocked down George on his Bandit; (and I would like to believe I'm not a 'typical' dum car driver!) We were head to head at a mini-roundabout, I was going straight on; and I THOUGHT he was too.... nothing suggested to ME he was doing other wise.... till he swing across in front of me, turning right. He popped round later and had a moan:

George: "That roundabout on Arbury Road? Why'd'y' pull out on me?!... Its not like you didn't SEE me! Your a biker! You even recognised me and WAVED!"
Me: "Yup. I looked, I saw, I waved... why do YOU think I pulled out on you? .....Does it happen to you a lot?"
George: "Err, it does actually... but WHY! I was indicating!"
Me: "Yup... well, you'd flicked the indy switch.... let me show you."

And I got him to get off the bike, and walk half a dozen paces down the pavement, then I sat his bike and flicked the indy on for him to see for himself...

He'd bought the Bandit, just after his DAS as a stolen recovered, and fixed it up; which included replacing the broken indies with a set of LED mini-cators,

First issue; before switching indies on, I told him to point at the left indy... he did, then the right... his finger wavered a little, and I joshed him, which was he pointing at? Because he fitted them, he knew where they were; BUT he got the idea. So small, and so close together and so 'huddled' in the clutter of detail around the head-stock, they weren't particularly easy to spot; especially to typical car driver, who generally needs everything kept 'simple' and 'obvious'

Second issue; as a conscientious 'new' rider his training still fresh in his mind; he rode with his head-lamp on in day light for 'conspicuity'.
All well and good, BUT, small lens indies SO close to the head-lamp, the light from the head-lamp almost drowned out any light the indy chucked out.

Third issue; Peculiarity of LED's is that they are strangely directional; Particularly the cheaper ones*; they are quite bright, BUT most of the light they chuck out comes out almost lazer straight from the 'bulb'; they do NOT 'glow' or chuck much light out sideways or at an angle.

George, remember, DAS training still fresh in his head; 'Must go ROUND mini-roundabouts' laid the bars slightly to the left, when sat on the give-way, ready to jink around the white dot on the road. And again, I showed him, laying the bars off slightly to either side, how less visible his indies were from anything other than dead straight ahead.

So the simple fact was, I DID NOT see his indies... and while he had them and used them, it was a conspiracy of factors making them pretty much 'useless'.

(* Back to LED's, and mention of cheap ones, and directionality. If you look at an LED array, you can usually count the individual LEDs in it, from the hot spots of bright light. That's how directional they are; light can reach you, perhaps thirty forty feet away, directly in line with the LED, where light coming out the side, barely reaches the next one on the Printed circuit board a few mm away!

Its a point of manufacturing economics; cheapest way to make an LED array is on a single flat printed circuit board; so this directionality is more likely in the cheapest examples.

'Better' or at least less directional, LED replacement bulbs, rather than having easily and cheaply placed LED's in a grid on a flat PCB, will often have them on a round PCB arranged radially, the central LED's pointing straight forwards, but the outer ones 'joggled' to lean over 45 or 90 degrees to chuck light out the rim. May even have a ring of LED's on the reverse of the PCB facing backwards.

They are also likely to be 'potted' the whole circuit board set in clear resin, or fitted into a diffuser, so that the light gets bounced about and evened out a bit, more like a conventional tungsten filament bulb, to create a more even 'glow'.

And this can be quite significant on indicator lamps, that frequently don't have reflectors in them to gather and redirect light from the bulb through the lens, or tail-lamps that don't have a full 'silvered' reflector.)

Only lamp that is of 'direct' use to you, the rider of a motorbike is the head-lamp; chucking light forwards so you can see where you are going in the dark.

The rest are all 'signals' telling other traffic where you are and what you are doing. THAT is their primary function. What's the point even having them, IF no one is going to 'get the message' of your 'signal'?

If you are going to have them; might as well make sure they actually do the job intended; and on that notion; the minimum spacing for indies and the 'doesn't interfere with other lamp/equipment' rules aren't just a bit of bureaucratic bollox, it really DOES have an actual sensible purpose.

These days I LIKE long-stalk indies with big lenses; they are still narrower than the handlebars, so its not like they are going to stop you squeezing through a gap or anything; and further they are away from the centre line and other lamps, more 'obvious' they are.

Sod how 'ugly' they are; who cares what you look like; buggers rarely look at you any-how! BUT, if you are more bothered about how you look? Well, might as well get rid completely, and hope the idiots remember hand-signals!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[tsmith]

I upgraded the bulbs on my GPZ500 to LEDs and the light output is much improved. I found that SMD LEDs worked best but you need a lot of LEDS per bulb to make it worthwhile. I kept the standard covers and just upgraded to super bright white bulbs. Everything came off Ebay and was the cheapest available.

Indicators were upgraded to 60SMD LED bulbs. They are now so bright they look yellow rather than orange.
Flasher unit was upgraded as they flashed far too quickly. Apparently that's a MOT fail otherwise I would have left it alone.

Dash bulbs were upgraded to 20SMD. Very bright and clear especially at night.

Brake bulbs upgraded to 80SMD. Brighter than stock, but not much in it. The red brake cover takes away much of the added light.

Numberplate bulb upgraded to 20SMD. The light is so bright that it lights up the road behind me. :lol:

Only the headlight bulb is standard.

[Jayy]

Had an integrated rear light/indicators on the ZX10R for about 2 years and never got pulled just for them. Just fitted the same to the R1 but I've added quite a small number plate (9x3) which isn't legal.

I do remember getting a warning on the ZX10R about the indicators but I had already been pulled for something else. He asked me, "Where are the indicators" to which I replied, "You don't need them do you?" and he said, "No but if you do have them, they need to be clearly marked/stand out and not integrated".

[Kierran]

I have the motodynamics integrated kit on my bike. Very bright and very noticeable especially in the dark. Can also detach the indicator wires and refit the stock ones for the mot.
____________________
Im not driving too fast, Im flying too low!
Current Bike - GSXR 750 K5
Current Car - BMW 318i

[hmmmnz]

on a teflon mike chalange post, i think in new zealand your hand signals would be rekonised , thus no need for these pesky lights
____________________
the humans are dead
I kick arse for the lord
Wiring Diagrams BIDNIP it bitches

[Llama-Farmer]

[merquis00]

[Llama-Farmer]

[merquis00]

[Llama-Farmer]

[moonzoomer]