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turn lane/filter lane rules.

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C1REX
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PostPosted: 11:45 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: turn lane/filter lane rules. Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm quite confused about the rules of filter lanes/turn lanes to the point I'm not sure what is that exactly.


For example:
https://goo.gl/maps/FgMPR

There are two lanes with road signs. Left line with an arrow to go straight or left. Right hand line with an arrow to turn right.


Is it legal to go straight from the right hand line?

I've fought I can't but some people told me otherwise.

Can you explain this to me, please?
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes unless there are arrows or signs indicating otherwise.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: turn lane/filter lane rules. Reply with quote

C1REX wrote:
Hi,

I'm quite confused about the rules of filter lanes/turn lanes to the point I'm not sure what is that exactly.


For example:
https://goo.gl/maps/FgMPR

There are two lanes with road signs. Left line with an arrow to go straight or left. Right hand line with an arrow to turn right.


Is it legal to go straight from the right hand line?

I've fought I can't but some people told me otherwise.

Can you explain this to me, please?


Legally you shouldn't but in a bike you can get away with it in a car it is a dick move.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually having jumped that google map back a couple of times, no in this instance it is right turn only in the right lane.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:02 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't find a specific rule about it but it ought to be pretty obvious to any reasonably competant driver that a lane with a right hand arrow is right turn only and one with a straight and left arrow is for straight ahead and left.

I suspect going straight ahead at a right turn arrow would be similar to filtering. It's not specifically illegal so if done in a safe and controlled manner, nobody would object. If you cause a conflict by doing so, expect to be left open for a charge for driving without due care.

Closest rule I can come across, which would definately apply to the example you gave is rule 177 in the highway code.
Quote:
Green filter arrow. This indicates a filter lane only. Do not enter that lane unless you want to go in the direction of the arrow. You may proceed in the direction of the green arrow when it, or the full green light shows. Give other traffic, especially cyclists, time and room to move into the correct lane.


It doesn't say "Must not" and has no chapter and verse at the bottom meaning it's not a specific legal requirement BUT it is used as a basis for what a careful and competant driver would do if you landed up an a charge of driving without due care.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 12:04 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee81/paddy2007dug/rightturnonly_zps44135ccf.png

Much clearer from here, the arrows show what is correct and what is not.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 12:21 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't it fall under not following road signs/markings?
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C1REX
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PostPosted: 12:35 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was 100% sure that I can't use right hand line but few people told me otherwise. Including an advanced instructor (unless I misunderstood that message).

There is no green filter arrow. Just normal green light.
Somebody told me that without green filter lane there is no need to follow the sign. There could be a car covering the sign as well.

I'm just confused now.
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Last edited by C1REX on 12:36 - 19 Aug 2013; edited 1 time in total
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G
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PostPosted: 12:35 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
Wouldn't it fall under not following road signs/markings?

As far as I know (and I await to be corrected), arrows are only advisory, but wording must be followed

In the OP's example it doesn't seem unreasonable to go straight on in the right hand lane - particularly if you're on a bike.

There's some places like that where if you sit in the left lane, you end having to wait ages for people turning left so you can go straight on.
Of course, more are the opposite.
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C1REX
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PostPosted: 12:45 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
chris-red wrote:
Wouldn't it fall under not following road signs/markings?

As far as I know (and I await to be corrected), arrows are only advisory, but wording must be followed

In the OP's example it doesn't seem unreasonable to go straight on in the right hand lane - particularly if you're on a bike.

There's some places like that where if you sit in the left lane, you end having to wait ages for people turning left so you can go straight on.
Of course, more are the opposite.



That's exactly how I understood the message and was advised to use filter lanes to make progress (IF I understood correctly).

I'm very surprised and looking for confirmation on few forums (including IAM and Rospa ones)
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C1REX
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PostPosted: 15:20 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some answers from IAM forum:


Quote:
There is no specific law forbidding you from doing so. But clearly if a collision resulted it would be held against you.

I could also be used as evidence to support a charge of careless driving if it was judged that your actions fell below those of careful and competent driver. If any other road user was inconvenienced a charge of driving without reasonable consideration could follow. neither of these are strict liability offences so it would be decided based upon the individual circumstances.

I cannot see from the image if the road ahead had one or two lanes, but it kind to looks like it narrows for a traffic island after a short distance so based on that I wouldn't want to use the right hand lane to go head unless the left hand lane was blocked.



Quote:
What if there is a queue of cars waiting on red lights and right lane empty?
For a motorcyclist would be advised to queue on the left or position on the empty right lane?


Quote:
When the lights change what will the queuing vehicles do? What impact will they have on you? What impact will you have on them? What if a pedestrian is crossing and impedes your progress?

What is the worst that could happen?

It depends of the specific individual circumstances in play at the time. The answers to the above questions should help to inform a riding plan.

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soforene This post is not being displayed because the poster has bad karma. Unhide this post / all posts.

C1REX
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PostPosted: 19:28 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: turn lane/filter lane rules. Reply with quote

soforene wrote:
C1REX wrote:
....I've fought I can't but some people told me otherwise. ..
You can fight all you like but you'd be better off thinking. Laughing

And getting an education.


I do that I learn a lot Smile

Another good answer from ELAM forum:

Quote:
A good question.

Does the right hand lane have its own set of traffic lights? Also, what is the lane delineation at the stop line? If the right lane is controlled by its own set of lights then you MUST NOT cross that stop line if you are presented with a red light.
If not then the arrows are purely advisory.
If , on the other hand, the arrows are augmented with writing indicating a road number or town then they become mandatory lane arrows.
Hope this helps.

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Pete.
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PostPosted: 21:26 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Legal or not, I regularly use the right filter lane to go straight ahead on my bike if the ahead arrow is green. There's a poxy bit of road at Waterloo where if there's more than a handful of cars turning right the ahead lane can be empty but you can't get into it because it's fed from a yellow-line bus lane. The only way to avoid waiting several light changes is to filter along the off-side of the right turn filter lane and hope you get across near the front.
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Richy CB1000
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 19 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrows on their own are "appropriate" or "advice" indicators, if they are with words "Turn Left" etc... then mandatory.

So legally there is nothing to stop you using say a right lane to go straight ahead at the junction you show.

However, other drivers are also following the "appropriate" lane markers, there to help everyone (?) so may not be expecting you to go straight on which could obviously be a tad dangerous at certain times.

As above you could find yourself in plod trouble due to a "careless driving" charge if anything happened.

However careless driving states (cut n pasted) from a pepipoo case

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place, he is guilty of an offence", contrary to Section 3 RTA.

Contravening traffic regulations can be very relevant but is not always conclusive, It really depends and can be open to opinion. i.e. breaching traffic regulations does not always amount to sufficient evidence in itself of careless driving.

Also, In order to prove that a driver drove inconsiderately it must be shown that some other person using the road was actually inconvenienced (Dilks v Bowman-Shaw 1981)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In this case it was dropped due to no public interest as plod had just charged a guy going straight ahead from a left lane with a left arrow appropriate marker but not mandatory turn left written on the road, no one was effected and no accident occurred.

I wonder if it had gone through to hearing whether it would have stuck, the "has to be inconvenienced" bit may have been applied as people waiting in the queue in the appropriate lane may have been seen to be inconvenienced.

My own opinion I wouldn't do it as you're opening yourself up to potential hassle.
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