Reassurance and advise please .....

[Bozzie08]

[-Matt-]

Dont let it put you off at all mate, i've dropped a bike twice, as have most - at the minimum i would expect. I would MUCH rather drop it during mod 1 than when you have a nice shiny bike of your own - these things happen.

Its a hard thing to get used to, and i'd imagine at 31 you've been driving cars for a few years, as much as this is a benefit in many respects with road awareness etc, programming yourself to adjust to riding a bike from years spent sat in a car is quite a big thing in some respects.

I would say at your age do DAS - theres no real good reason not to for most people, you will sooner or later want a big and nice bike, if you're under 24 it can be debateable, but with the option there i'd take it and get it all done and out the way

Having lessons apart isn't much of a problem i was in a similar situation when i did my training due to working shifts also, as long as you pay attention and keep focused you'll remember the same as you will doing it intensively in one week.

Good luck

[J.M.]

You can't do the slow speed stuff because you think that you can't. That's all it is.

You're convinced that the bike is going to fall over because you're going slow and leaning over. Take a big dose of MTFU, keep your legs firmly on the pegs (don't wiggle them) and slip the clutch to keep the bike moving forwards steadily. U-turns will become easier.

Once you pass your tests, you can then do U-turns however you like

Those lessons do seem fairly far apart. Have you considered buying a 125cc bike to ride around on, with L plates, in between your lessons? They're nowhere near as powerful, but you get to learn, makes mistakes and practise in your own time. You could commute to work on the bike rather than the car. All practise helps!
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[-Matt-]

[Andy_Pagin]

Slow riding is by far the most difficult skill to master, and most of us drop a bike at least once. You just need to get your instructor to work with you on this.
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They're coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa, hey-hey,
the men in white coats are coming to take me away.
Yamaha Vity -> YBR125 -> FZS600 Fazer -> FZ1-S Fazer

[Rogerborg]

I do not like the Suzuki Bandit. I find it a top heavy, lardy lump that's hard to move around at slow speeds, and yes, I've dropped one too. This is not a universal opinion, but it is my opinion and I will hold it.

The 600 Bandit is an old, old bike by now, I'm surprised there are any still in service with training schools. You might be better off somewhere with a newer fleet.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Nemo]

[deadwolf]

Bear with me, this turned out to be a huge long ramble.

Practice makes perfect. Cliched as hell but it still holds true no matter how much I want to tear my ears off every time I hear that phrase.

With U-turns and other slow speed maneuvers, start off by using the throttle as much as the clutch will allow. Don't worry about revving high. It makes the bike a lot stabler when turning. Once you get the hang of that, you can start reducing the throttle until you find a nice balance. Far easier than attempting a maneuver with not enough momentum and throttle in the first place.

I started off trying to do everything with minimal throttle (because I wasn't used to how noisy bikes can be and thought I was going to damage the bike!). I lugged the engine a lot and even dropped the bike on a figure of 8.

Then I moved on to constantly revving high. More stable, but still too noisy for my liking.

Then I found the balance point where I was more focused on the manuever itself and clutch/throttle work became a lot more dynamic.

'A bit of clutch here to let me lean more. A bit of throttle there to ease out a wobble.'

The bike became a lot quieter and the revs became steadier, with less variation throughout the maneuver despite all the leaning about.

Once you do it enough you won't even need to think about clutch and throttle. As for rear brake? The rear braking just happened.

Another thing that I found helped a lot was the way my school ran their mod 1 training.

Every once in a while they'd let one rider off to go do some freestyling in an adjacent space. We trained in a schoolyard so that space was covered in all sorts of lines and patterns for hopscotch etc.
I really liked that part of the training because we got to maneuver around slowly without the constrains of the Mod 1 layout. You'd just aim to steer between whatever lines you picked on the ground. You got to slow ride for the sake of riding slow, rather than to fit the confines of some silly cones. Maybe you should see if your school will let you do the same?

With U-turns, get some momentum up before doing the turn. You'll wanna be about 4-5 feet away from your starting point before twisting your handlebars. My instructors always called for a 'positive start'. Aim to launch your bike that way and the momentum should easily carry you through the turn. Slightly apply rear brake while keeping throttle constant AND LOOK THROUGH THE TURN TO WHERE YOU WANT TO STOP. Looking floor = instant fuckup. Keep your chin up!

Now, storytime :

Having a little 125cc to bimble around while taking lessons helps a lot, if you can afford it. I give a lot of credit to my GP 100 as it helped me learn lots of invaluable lessons.

Depending on how you travel, don't underestimate the number of times you might have to U-turn/slow ride during your biking career.

I tend to get lost and end up in dead end roads/cul-de-sacs quite often for some reason. Sometimes it's just plain quicker to wing it and do a U-turn rather than a three-point or walk the bike around.

Treat putting your feet down as a failure. Challenge yourself to stay on the pegs and do all movement under the bike's own power. It's there for you to control and use. Duck-paddling the bike around is like you pulling a horse carriage with the horses on board. You've got all that power, and you're just going to awkwardly manhandle it about? That's not biking

So far I've had to U-turn on cobbled slopes (scary shit but fun), hills, pavement with 6-inch drops onto the road as well as the usual streets. It's a useful skill to have, and you look cool as hell demonstrating your complete control over your kickass machine.

Same goes for slow rides. York has a 'steam train' that picks people up from the city centre and takes them to the railway museum. It travels at about 5-10MPH. I once got stuck behind it and treated it as a slow ride exercise. Didn't stop or put any feet down at all. Probably looked unreal to all the waving tourists who've only seen bikes zip past at high speed.

Don't get too bothered about dropping the school's training bikes. They're usually well equipped for the rigours of training so take it as a chance to test your limits on them. Lug the engine to the point of death, rev it to high heaven, explore the inner reaches of the friction zone etc. Do all the stuff you're squeamish about doing on your own bike because how often will you get to ride something with maintenance and spares taken care of by someone else?

As for dropping your own bike, it's just something you have to get over. Just make sure you keep your composure and you'll be fine. I had an Aprilia RS125 and due to being unfamiliar with it's friction zone, I managed to drop it at a busy stoplight in front of a dozen tourists on the second day of owning it.

I'll never forget the scream uttered by the woman standing on the sidewalk directly on my left as the bike hit the floor with the loudest bang I've ever heard.

But I righted it back up, got on and acted like nothing had happened. And that was it.

Just take it in stride and don't be a perfectionist. Everyone makes mistakes. It can be challenging to keep something that weights 4x your body weight upright, and to be honest, motorcyclists make it look really easy and effortless.

Had a few close calls after that but I've never dropped a bike since.

Fuck's sake, that felt like half of a novel. Hope it helps you with your

If all else fails, watch gymkhana and be inspired by tiny Japanese men going as slow as possible to be as fast as possible :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ZdwUoyb90

Also, 'Japanese motorcycle cop' is the stuff of slow-speed legend and never fails to impress:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWaq0zOaAVU
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Motorsapien Art

[Christoffee]

Loads of great stuff there deadwolf.

As a long time car driver and a biking noob the revving and clutch riding was a reeducation. In a car it's rev low and don't ride - the opposite of a bike.

I've only done my CBT, but I imagine you're dead right about Bozzie getting a 125 to noob about on. After my CBT I was useless. Just like Bozzie I was alright at speed, but even pulling away elegantly was difficult. After 300 miles, many of which were pure practice rides, I feel much more confident and I'm no longer a clear and present danger.

For me, the clutch control is the biggest improvement. Pulling away nicely, parking, taking junctions and roundabouts etc. Also, good advice about keeping your feet on the pegs. I read somewhere (probably here) it's good practice to stay pegged, and at traffic lights and junctions I try to not stop - control the speed, read the road, and stay pegged.

Bozzie: you'll be fine mate. I know I'm a CBTer and you're doing the big boys test, but I was a mess. And I can already feel myself turning into a decent rider.
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Bike: CBF125

[Bozzie08]

Cheers people I think a 125 may be the way to go after reading the replies.

What am I looking at price wise ? Also anyone recommend any models to look for? Not looking to spend much but literally ain't got a clue how much I'm looking at?

Cheers

[waffles]

I found U turns a bit of a bitch, too. Actually I don't think I have someone since passing Mod 1 although the slow speed riding is really useful for approaching junctions/roundabouts etc.

The secret is confidence. You can do them, keep your head up and look at where you want to go. The bike will follow whichever direction you are looking in, it will become smoother as you practise. At least you have got the dreaded bike-drop out of the way already!
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Theory test - 19/8/09, CBT - 11/10/09, MOD 1 - 16/8/10, MOD 2 - 27/10/10
Past rides Yamaha XT125X, Triumph TT600, Honda XR250
Current rides Suzuki GSXR 600, Honda MSX125

[Rogerborg]

Bollocks to the 125. Just find a training school with more suitable DAS bikes and get it done.

There's no inherit merit to doing things the hard way, and you can always martyr yourself by getting a top heavy bike once you're licensed up, if you're so inclined.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Bozzie08]

So is a bandit not the best bike to learn on?

Will look at different schools I think see what bikes they have.

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

Fuck roger, the scotch cunt. 125s are ace. Not that I ride mine much since not having too. But they are a good way to ease into it, and sharpen up some of the more basic, balance kind of things. Without cutting yer teeth on a 125 it's easy to feel intimidated by a 600 - fat fucking bastards like the cbf and so forth. Even the idea of dropping it and not being able to right the fucker is enough to get you worrying. But, after a couple of weeks on a 125, you feel loads more able to deal with *anything* on 2 wheels - and you can practice whenever you like. Also, slow riding is arguably more difficult on a 125, so a bit of this kind of stuff feels easier on a bigger bike.
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[Rogerborg]

Quite right, that manky Scotch git knows nothing about the joys of a 125.

Personal preferences, many people like Bandits, but I do not. Fat seat, lots of weight, carried relatively high up. Once one starts going over, you're not catching it. Contrast with my Beemer, with the tank under the seat, which is just ridiculously easy to ride at slow speeds. I'd ask around the local training schools and see what they're using for A bikes these days.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

Yeah never knew you had a Chinese 125, Rog. You've never mentioned that before.
____________________
"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[Pete.]

The Bandit isn't hard to ride slowly but you wouldn't choose it for learning on over a 5-600 twin like a GS, ER, CB.

OP: the trick to riding slowly and pulling off a good U-turn is to use a little bit of power and control your speed using the back brake. You'll find it very natural to vary the pressure on the pedal and feel the bike respond instantly.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Bozzie08]

Thanks for the replies loads of help.

I've called a few different schools and all seem to have bandits! I will just get on with it I suppose.

Think next lesson I will spend more time on them and hopefully not drop it, can't stop now I've spent a fortune on kit!

[SteveZZR]

[JP7]

The U-turn was the most difficult part for me to master, like most new riders I would imagine. I fell into a hedge once while attempting it.

And naturally, the examiner chose the most difficult U-turn location on my test, just to annoy me that bit more...

It will come, the way I mastered it was to find a dead end road and just go round and round, don't stop and keep doing them. I was able to do several in a row without putting my foot down.

I tried one for a laugh the other day but my Daytona has a shocking turning circle and I hadn't got a chance in hell!

[Bozzie08]

Going to keep going with the lessons rather than go for the 125 see how that goes of its not working out I will reconsider.

I'm changing driving school as well I think the current one isn't filling me with much confidence, I get very little feedback from the instructors after the lessons etc I've only had 2 lessons with my current school so shouldn't have that much of an effect.

Again thanks for all the replies, makes me feel a bit more at ease knowing other people are/have struggled with u turns!

[Ribenapigeon]

If you cant afford a 125 then even a push bike will help for learning the physics of slow control as the science applies to any two wheel vehicle. You can also practice the technique of using the back brake to stabalise while moving slowly.

As others have said, its a mental game and we can put ourselves off easily. Even now after ive got my XJ6 I still take time out in a quiet corner of a carpark to oractice figure of eights and U-turns. Easy enough on aisgood flat surface, like the test centre for instance. Real world is trickier, theres all the distractions of the curb, bad cambers, turning on a hill, keeping an eye out for other vehicles or kids or dogs. By contrast that test centre patch is a dream.

I dont know if others find this but at low speed I find I have more control if I tilt my hips forward and put my weight more over the bars, maybe even press dow on the pegs a little almost lifting up off the seat a bit. Works for me anyway, dont know why though.

Dont get disheartened your problems are pretty typical and once you get that big bike licence it will feel soooooooo sweet.

[reddeviljp]

I bought a YBR 125 and it boosted my confidence in performing most of the manoeuvres that you have to complete on Part I. Having your own bike gives you better road sense and appreciation of everything around you which will be invaluable for Mod 2. Personally, I would get the bike if you can and build your confidence in your own time and practice what you want when you want.
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Bike: 1993 CB400 SuperFour - 1999 Yamaha FZS600 - DAS passed 7/11/13 - Working my way towards a Yamaha FZ1.

[radicalrabit]

U TURNS MADE EASY

go and find a big car park . empty car park like Wiskes or b@q.
ride your bike round in a big circle always looking as far over your shoulder in the direction of turn as you can.
pick a spot and ride towards it and gradual look forther round until you find youself riding in ever decreasing circles. and go slower an dslower and slower
You will find that you can ride very slowly and turn much more tightly than you ever thought possible...

COUNTER STEERING HELPS TOO?
when you set of for a U turn start the turn by slightly turning the wrong way , that helps th ebike tip into the turn and then as you power round it you find the bike feels happier. Also I found that by using my weight on the outside footpeg I gould ride slower and more relaxed round the turn .

Practice.... and I hat esuzukis revvy engines too. I rode r1200rt , honda vf honda blackbird round the MOD 1 COURSE nO PROBLEM th SUZKI was horrible too revvy to much like being sat on top of it than riding it and messed up the u turn and the slalom the bike felt horrible.

Anyway lots of much better advice on here that I can give from some instructors but I found that by starting off in a wide circle I built up my confidence of what the bike could do think of it not as doing a u turn but of only doing half of a full circle ....
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VF1000 F2F, BLACKBIRD with carbs, 2nd VF1000F2F just need somewhere to go now..

[Bozzie08]

Cheers chaps

I'm on the look out for a 125 now. I figure that I won't loose to much cash on it when I come to sell for a big bike! Fingers crossed.

I'm having an interesting time trying to find out though. Thought there would be loads at reasonable prices.

Any advice on web sites, places to look? I'm in liverpool just in case anyone is selling one!