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drbaig
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PostPosted: 18:05 - 27 Aug 2013    Post subject: Bike choice. Reply with quote
So now I am in the market for a motorbike, I have narrowed it down to a yamaha thundercat or a honda cbr600f around year 99 or 2000. I might get a steel cbr f3. But you see what I mean by what type i am looking for. I dont want to spend a lot on my first bike.

Now, there seems to be a big divide in pricing as some people are expecting extortionate amounts for their bikes. I am sure old bikes werent this expensive last year.

Looking for some advice here as to which way to go about it and what would be the reasonable pricing for these different models. I kinda have figured that honda demands few more pennies due to the brand name.

Now, I went to stoke yesterday and a had a look at the 99 cbr600f4. They guy was adament he would not sell it for lower than 1350. Even with me waving a roll of cash in his face. I dont know whether I was offering him less money or should I have bit his hand off for that price.

So Do i just wait and be patient and look for something that pop up at a reasonable price or I make obcene offers to these sellers till somebody bites the bait.

What is the way about it. eh.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 20:48 - 27 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Bike choice. Reply with quote
drbaig wrote:
They guy was adament he would not sell it for lower than 1350. Even with me waving a roll of cash in his face. I dont know whether I was offering him less money

Knowing how much cash you're waving in his face would be a good starting point.

Can't afford a CBR? Buy a Thundercat. But be prepared to get less for it when you sell it. If you and a seller can't agree on a price then walk away. Either you'll find someone who will sell for the price you want or you'll move your budget.
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rhys1005
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PostPosted: 21:32 - 27 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Depends if you have your license or not and if this is your first bike your buying IMO. When i'm without a bike and in a rush to get one I don't mind paying a little extra to get it quicker/ make sure it's working fine. However now i've got a main bike i'm going to wait and wait untill one comes up for a really good price (in search for a ktm as a second 'fun' bike).

Saying that though i found a t'cat with many 'upgrades' and in very good condition for a good price. Then found out about the gear issue.. Tested it and no 2nd gear problem Very Happy so there are genuine bargains out there. Just need to keep looking.

You have the right idea about bringing the cash with you, i sold my DT £100 less then what i thought i was my bottom price when i saw the cash there and ready. Best bet is to do it to the people that have just posted the advertisement so they haven't had any better offers.

Regarding what bike.. I would say the Thundercat as they generally cost a bit less and I don't believe there is that much between the bikes so common sense says the 'cat. Cheaper insurance too (in my case anyway). Just make sure it has no second gear issues (redline in second and try to change from 1st to second at high revs to test. If it dont go in or drops out then walk away). Expect to pay upwards of £1200 for a decent one.
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rhys1005
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 27 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Bike choice. Reply with quote
[quote="angryjonny"]
drbaig wrote:
Buy a Thundercat. But be prepared to get less for it when you sell it.


Thinking Can't see why you'd say that.. Paid £1000 for my 'cat with scorpion exhaust, new tyres, new DID chain/sprocket, low miles andd double bubble. Was offered £1300 the other week almost a year later. It will depreciate the same as any other bike, if not go up in price if you get a bargain and keep it in good nick.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 27 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
You're doing everything right. Right bikes, right strategy, right attitude. Just hang tough, be patient and be quick when you see a bike at the right price. Most of mine have been bought or sold within hours of the ads going up on Gumtree.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 22:06 - 27 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Bike choice. Reply with quote
rhys1005 wrote:
angryjonny wrote:
Buy a Thundercat. But be prepared to get less for it when you sell it.


Thinking Can't see why you'd say that.. Paid £1000 for my 'cat with scorpion exhaust, new tyres, new DID chain/sprocket, low miles andd double bubble. Was offered £1300 the other week almost a year later. It will depreciate the same as any other bike, if not go up in price if you get a bargain and keep it in good nick.

If a Thundercat costs 0.75 CBRs to buy you'll get 0.75 CBRs when you sell it. I don't understand how that equation confuses you.

The obvious exception would be if I bought a Thundercat, in which case association with my awesomeness would skew the market and Thundercats would approach Desmosedicis in used-value. But I probably won't buy one. So the market will always be a little lower than CBRs.
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drbaig
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PostPosted: 23:54 - 27 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Bike choice. Reply with quote
angryjonny wrote:
drbaig wrote:
They guy was adament he would not sell it for lower than 1350. Even with me waving a roll of cash in his face. I dont know whether I was offering him less money

Knowing how much cash you're waving in his face would be a good starting point.

Can't afford a CBR? Buy a Thundercat. But be prepared to get less for it when you sell it. If you and a seller can't agree on a price then walk away. Either you'll find someone who will sell for the price you want or you'll move your budget.


I can afford cbr and thundercat both. I just dont want to pay over the odds as what it seems to be like. I was offering him 1200, then he was moaning about how his wife is making him sell the bike or he would keep it so I said i would up it to 1250. He was having none of it. I am sure if his other half was standing there he would have taken it as he had another cbr f sport and an aprillia. Nevertheless, I walked away. But the thread is more about how should I approach these situation better. Should I have gone for 1350, was I being too stingy. It was a 99 cbr600f4 with 30k miles on it. Condition was very good, but the bike had been dropped and had scratches.


To Give a better Idea. This is the bike in question I am talking about.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1999-HONDA-CBR-600-F-RED-/261263485604?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item3cd4846aa4

Last edited by drbaig on 00:12 - 28 Aug 2013; edited 1 time in total
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drbaig
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PostPosted: 00:02 - 28 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
rhys1005 wrote:
Depends if you have your license or not and if this is your first bike your buying IMO. When i'm without a bike and in a rush to get one I don't mind paying a little extra to get it quicker/ make sure it's working fine. However now i've got a main bike i'm going to wait and wait untill one comes up for a really good price (in search for a ktm as a second 'fun' bike).

Saying that though i found a t'cat with many 'upgrades' and in very good condition for a good price. Then found out about the gear issue.. Tested it and no 2nd gear problem Very Happy so there are genuine bargains out there. Just need to keep looking.

You have the right idea about bringing the cash with you, i sold my DT £100 less then what i thought i was my bottom price when i saw the cash there and ready. Best bet is to do it to the people that have just posted the advertisement so they haven't had any better offers.

Regarding what bike.. I would say the Thundercat as they generally cost a bit less and I don't believe there is that much between the bikes so common sense says the 'cat. Cheaper insurance too (in my case anyway). Just make sure it has no second gear issues (redline in second and try to change from 1st to second at high revs to test. If it dont go in or drops out then walk away). Expect to pay upwards of £1200 for a decent one.


Yes I do have a license, well not yet. I have to wait for the dvla to return my license. Ten days normally I think.

Right okay, so 1200 for a thundercat. See I was under the impression that they were cheaper than that, around 1000. I was told they are very cheap for a decent bike. I decided against a fazer and the hornet after realising that my head nearly came off on the dual carriageway on my test doing shoulder checks to change lanes at 70 on a cbf600. So I thought give a faired bike a go, better wind protection and all the other shenanigans.

The other thing I also found annoying was that there are very few bikes in a 30 mile radius. They are usually quite far. Manchester to Stoke was not bad but do a few of those unsuccessfull journeys and petrol bill starts kicking arse.
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Slacker24seve...
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PostPosted: 08:01 - 28 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
drbaig wrote:
rhys1005 wrote:
Depends if you have your license or not and if this is your first bike your buying IMO. When i'm without a bike and in a rush to get one I don't mind paying a little extra to get it quicker/ make sure it's working fine. However now i've got a main bike i'm going to wait and wait untill one comes up for a really good price (in search for a ktm as a second 'fun' bike).

Saying that though i found a t'cat with many 'upgrades' and in very good condition for a good price. Then found out about the gear issue.. Tested it and no 2nd gear problem Very Happy so there are genuine bargains out there. Just need to keep looking.

You have the right idea about bringing the cash with you, i sold my DT £100 less then what i thought i was my bottom price when i saw the cash there and ready. Best bet is to do it to the people that have just posted the advertisement so they haven't had any better offers.

Regarding what bike.. I would say the Thundercat as they generally cost a bit less and I don't believe there is that much between the bikes so common sense says the 'cat. Cheaper insurance too (in my case anyway). Just make sure it has no second gear issues (redline in second and try to change from 1st to second at high revs to test. If it dont go in or drops out then walk away). Expect to pay upwards of £1200 for a decent one.


Yes I do have a license, well not yet. I have to wait for the dvla to return my license. Ten days normally I think.

Right okay, so 1200 for a thundercat. See I was under the impression that they were cheaper than that, around 1000. I was told they are very cheap for a decent bike. I decided against a fazer and the hornet after realising that my head nearly came off on the dual carriageway on my test doing shoulder checks to change lanes at 70 on a cbf600. So I thought give a faired bike a go, better wind protection and all the other shenanigans.

The other thing I also found annoying was that there are very few bikes in a 30 mile radius. They are usually quite far. Manchester to Stoke was not bad but do a few of those unsuccessfull journeys and petrol bill starts kicking arse.


There's a few points to bear in mind with the naked a you mentioned. You will quickly become used to the windblast and develop massive neck muscles. The lack of fairing also serves as a natural governer for your speed; it is possible to go very fast on a naked but you feel it more and the wind will naturally keep you below 90 or so.
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rhys1005
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PostPosted: 08:56 - 28 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
drbaig wrote:
rhys1005 wrote:
Depends if you have your license or not and if this is your first bike your buying IMO. When i'm without a bike and in a rush to get one I don't mind paying a little extra to get it quicker/ make sure it's working fine. However now i've got a main bike i'm going to wait and wait untill one comes up for a really good price (in search for a ktm as a second 'fun' bike).

Saying that though i found a t'cat with many 'upgrades' and in very good condition for a good price. Then found out about the gear issue.. Tested it and no 2nd gear problem Very Happy so there are genuine bargains out there. Just need to keep looking.

You have the right idea about bringing the cash with you, i sold my DT £100 less then what i thought i was my bottom price when i saw the cash there and ready. Best bet is to do it to the people that have just posted the advertisement so they haven't had any better offers.

Regarding what bike.. I would say the Thundercat as they generally cost a bit less and I don't believe there is that much between the bikes so common sense says the 'cat. Cheaper insurance too (in my case anyway). Just make sure it has no second gear issues (redline in second and try to change from 1st to second at high revs to test. If it dont go in or drops out then walk away). Expect to pay upwards of £1200 for a decent one.


Yes I do have a license, well not yet. I have to wait for the dvla to return my license. Ten days normally I think.

Right okay, so 1200 for a thundercat. See I was under the impression that they were cheaper than that, around 1000. I was told they are very cheap for a decent bike. I decided against a fazer and the hornet after realising that my head nearly came off on the dual carriageway on my test doing shoulder checks to change lanes at 70 on a cbf600. So I thought give a faired bike a go, better wind protection and all the other shenanigans.

The other thing I also found annoying was that there are very few bikes in a 30 mile radius. They are usually quite far. Manchester to Stoke was not bad but do a few of those unsuccessfull journeys and petrol bill starts kicking arse.


£1200 IS very cheap for a mint 'Cat Confused I'm sure you could buy one for £1000, but £1200 seem's to be the bottom price for one in good condition? Ofcourse there's always bargains out there.

Well the fazer is half faired and for naked bikes you can buy a fly screen but obviously there will still be some compromise for the ease of not having to take off fairings to work on the bike. The hornet seem's a bit small and 'buzzy' to me, not my ideal for what i wanted the 'Cat for. And the Fazer I was told is the 'Cat but with a shitter engine etc. aswell as demanding a much higher price Confused

The 'Cat is a really good bike for the money IMO. People rave about the 2nd gear issue but i don't think it's as common as they make out and it can be easily tested before purchase. The brakes are fantastic (off the old r1 i believe) and are even better with better discs and braided lines. The engine is very smooth and really goes if you rev it loads, the fairing also offers loads of protection to the point where in a 30 zone 'my mate' was doing 85 without even realising it. The seat and riding position is very comfortable for both the rider and pillion, decent grab rails. Handling is good for the size/weight of the bike although could probably be improved with a proper set up. But! Remember this bike was made to be a sports bike, to race. It's only recent it's been named a 'sports tourer' so it's still got some kick.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 09:32 - 28 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
If it's your first bike it will probably end up on its side at some point. And shiny fairings are expensive to replace. Just throwing that in.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:51 - 28 Aug 2013    Post subject: Re: Bike choice. Reply with quote
drbaig wrote:
he was moaning about how his wife is making him sell the bike or he would keep it

Loads of those "sellers" around, looking for an excuse not to give it up. He was just wasting your time, although I'm sure his next ad (when it doesn't sell) will be full of ranting about TIME WASTERS and TYRE KICKERS.

You'll learn to spot them pretty quickly. Wink
____________________
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drbaig
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PostPosted: 13:20 - 28 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
So this is the one bike I was looking at this morning and thinking of offering 1400 for this. What would you guys suggest. Worth it, too expensive or undercutting him a bit. What would be the ideal price for this.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CBR600F-2001-Excellent-Condition-/281158436116?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item4176594514

Secondly what about these two thundercats from autotrader. What would be a suitable purchase price for these two.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201308178367768/sort/recpriceascdefault/usedbikes/price-to/2000/cc-from/500cc/model/yzf/make/yamaha/page/1/radius/60/postcode/m230fx?logcode=p

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201308258472324/sort/recpriceascdefault/usedbikes/price-to/2000/cc-from/500cc/model/yzf/make/yamaha/page/1/radius/60/postcode/m230fx?logcode=p
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:45 - 28 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
A 10,000 mile 2001 Thundercat with a year's MOT and some new bits, asking £1K? Why are you not thrashing it in 2nd gear right now? Eh?
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

Last edited by Rogerborg on 15:42 - 28 Aug 2013; edited 1 time in total
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drbaig
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 28 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thats because the guy is not in till tomorrow afternoon.
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P.addy
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 28 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nom, local and in the colour I want.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/honda-cbr600f-for-sale-excellent-condition-1350/1016135301#photo-content
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drbaig
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 28 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
That is in kent. Far Far away from Manchester. Shocked
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P.addy
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 29 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
drbaig wrote:
That is in kent. Far Far away from Manchester. Shocked


Yup, but there might be a nice person in Kent willing to look at it, pay for it and wait for a courier to come pick it up Wink
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drbaig
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PostPosted: 12:53 - 29 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Paddy, as much as I would appreciate that because I have seen over the years helping other forum members. I am going to have a look at that thundercat selling for 1k. And if i am correct, did you have a cat at some point ? what would you say about it ?

The only thing is it hasnt got any tax so I need to figure out a way to test the 2nd gear. Ive also been hearing that it isnt as widespread a problem as people might suggest.

We'll see. Smile
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P.addy
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 29 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd definitely say test 2nd gear, you never know. Tax or not surely a quick blast up the road in 2nd is allowed Neutral Everyone has heard of it, but I didn't have the issue at near 40k with me pulling cack handed wheelies. Thumbs Up

Nothing wrong with the Thundercat in my eyes. I always wanted a CBR600F, the colour I linked too. Ended up buying a TCat with 35k for £1150, was very tidy.

Budget for stainless downpipes. Get the studs swapped to something less rust prone, Yamaha are sick for even considering using that material as studs.

Cannot really fault it, its comfortable, fast enough, handles really nicely and I'd have another.
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drbaig
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 29 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
okay, So after speaking to the guy on the phone I have decided to go have a proper look at the bike.

Now there are certain issues. How to test the bike without any road tax ? Find a quiet road and rag it in the second to see if it pops back out to neutral.

Secondly, if i do end up buying it I will probably buy the insurance premium online. I have the qoutes ready. So that means I do not get the certificate till monday at best. How do I go about taxing it then ? Because as far as I know post office will need hard copy of the insurance certificate which i find absurd as we live in the bloody 21st century. If i do it online i dont have a disc displayed ?

All in all i am coming to a conclusion to not buy a bike that has no tax on it as it is looking like a pain in the arse to be able to ride it back home.

Any advice. Confused
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DeeBee
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PostPosted: 19:40 - 29 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Vehicles must be either taxed or SORN. there is no middle ground (well there is kind of)

If the bike is not taxed currently then it must be declared SORN by the current owner (if he hasn't he can expect a fine to turn up)

If it's SORN, it is an offence to take it on the road period. the only circumstances where a vehicle may use the road network while on a SORN declaration is if it is travelling to or from a pre-booked MOT.

the only other thing I am aware of is the use of trade plates to move a vehicle. however I do not know if this applies to bikes.

The Law don't care if you were 'only taking it for a test spin honest guv'nor'. If it's on the road it must be taxed. You could go through the rigmarole of getting an MOT booked for it blah blah blah but tbh if you were stopped in these circumstances I think arguing that one would be the least of your worries.

Now, there is an argument of 'it's only illegal if you get caught' which is true. However every VOSA and Police vehicle is fitted with ANPR cameras these days - you drive past one on an untaxed bike, it's going to play a merry little tune to whoever is sitting inside the vehicle as you sail by. Most major road networks also have ANPR cameras on them (I know theres one on the M40 for definite)

hmmm... I wonder.... could you not take it to a disused airfield nearby to give it a test ride? Or anywhere on private land where you can do what you feel you need to do to test it out.

It's up to you, but I personally wouldn't take it on the road without taxing it first - the fine can run up to £2000 I believe.
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drbaig
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 29 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think I might have to let this one go as it is not taxed so I basically cannot test ride it.

Even though it is low milage and the guy has said there are no issues with the second gear.

He cannot tax it himself either because he has no insurance. Maybe thats why the bike is not sold because it seems like an unnecessary hassle.
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kerr
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 29 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Take a mate to stand at the end of the street to keep an eye out for polis, keep your phone where you would be able to hear it ringing/feel it vibrating Thumbs Up
You could be letting a cracking bike at a cracking price slip away there.
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P.addy
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PostPosted: 21:17 - 29 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Get cover, ask for it to be emailed to you, print out.

Go to post office and get tax, solved init
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